Tournament etiquette

[salmonoid]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I think the trout legends, the paff jam, the oil creek event and the hay creek rodeo should all hold its events at the same time on the same stretch of spring creek.

I'll bring popcorn and soda.

You forgot the Kishaquillas Tournament.

 

[rrt]

FYI: I don't know FoxTrapper, but for those of you who think he's not serious about this topic, I'd suggest you think again. I think his tip about pink tungsten beads might be a hint to you about what he thinks of certain types of fishing and fishermen.

Fox: God bless you. I'd guess you're in my age group and remember when you didn't wade in on another guy, at least on purpose. One of that type waded in only 50 yards above me last p.m. when he had miles of water he could've fished. Being old and not so tough, I left and fished elsewhere. If this had been due to a fishing competition, I don't really know what I'd have done. I'm too old and getting feeble to tangle with a 20-yr-old anymore.

Anyhow, everyone, sometimes topics like this one are real eye openers about how differently many of us feel about fly-fishing. I guess I am one of those Nick Lyons (?) referred to when he wrote that [long ago] fly fishermen were a "handful of harmless eccentrics who were engaged in a [then] arcane activity." I can only imagine how Lyons, Traver, etc. would have felt about how demeaning fly-fishing competitions are for all involved.

Sal: Sorry. You seem like a decent sort. I'm sorry that you believe that ff competitions are all right for the fish and fishermen. I hope that as time passes, you recognize these events for what they are. (To repeat: they are held to bolster participants' egos as they compete for money and trophies. They reduce the value of trout as the trout count for only a number in these egomaniacs' quest for their trophies and money.) This is my take on these competitions, and the two times I have been asked to join a ff team, I refused as graciously as I could. I believe they are the antithesis of what fly-fishing for trout ought to be like.

Sorry so long.

 

[ryansheehan]

rrt wrote:
FYI: I don't know FoxTrapper, but for those of you who think he's not serious about this topic, I'd suggest you think again. I think his tip about pink tungsten beads might be a hint to you about what he thinks of certain types of fishing and fishermen.

Fox: God bless .

Google search Ronnie Kittredge trout pro, you'll get it. Keep making me laugh Fox love it.

 

[SteveG]

As much as I dislike fishing competitions, and my belief that "competitive fly fishing" isn't fly fishing, it pales in comparison to unethical behavior and poor on stream etiquette.

I would imagine most leagues stress etiquette as a top priority for participants, for fear of backlash or sanctioning by PFBC. I think you're much more likely to have issues with entitled truck-chasers who feel the need to freezer-burn every fish caught to get a good return on that license, those who believe a stream belongs to them because they live nearby, or just those who lack all etiquette whatsoever, instead of some guys in a comp.

My largest gripe with fly fishing as a whole is that the wrong people get the praise. Who cares if someone is a great fisherman? My respect goes to those who invest their resources to actually protect the water. Maybe we've been worshipping false idols all along.

Fwiw, I'd be interested in trying a one-fly event if it's for a charity.

 

[wildtrout2]

wbranch wrote:
I have never, thank goodness, witnessed a tournament underway on any river I have ever fished.

And neither have 98% of the fishermen, that's why it amazes me that this thread's gotten 86 replies. I guess not too many are actually fishing. lol

 

[poopdeck]

While I never witnessed a trout comp I have witnessed bass comps and I quite naturally relate all comps to the bass comps. Different animals for sure but the mindset of those involved are the same. It's only a matter of time. I only hope the majority of FF's view trout comps for the ridiculous folly I believe they are and they don't take off like the bass competitions did. Just wait until people start calling themselves pro's and want to try to make a living on it.

 

[tomitrout]

Just wait until people start calling themselves pro's and want to try to make a living on it.

I've got shelves and shelves filled with books already written by those types....

 

[rrt]

Aw, Tomi, I, too, have shelves and shelves of books. However, with a few exceptions, most of the books I have have been written by those whose avocation, not vocation, is fly-fishing, and their writings display a love and respect for the sport and the flyrodder's quarry. Fox, Marinaro, and Traver come to mind right away. Going way back, Theodore Gordon's avocation was fly-fishing, and it was a shame his manuscript burned; but McDonald's compilation of his notes and letters is fine. Anyhow, I hope you don't lump all the good fly-fishing books into one category written by pro's.

You are right about one thing, for sure. Some ff types are in it for the money. I once had a well-known conservationist/flyfisher remark to me that another well-known flyfisher I was trying to figure out was "in it for the money." It was a subtle warning to keep my distance, or the 2nd guy might use my knowledge to further his ends -- for financial gain. As it turned out, it was pretty solid advice, for which I have been grateful for a number of years now.

 

[rrt]

And to add this: I like to write, too. I have had a number of articles published in various places. When I was young, I succumbed to the ease of having a couple destination pieces published. I quickly learned that it was inappropriate for me to do that: The kind of writing is indeed mercenary, and I am ashamed that I did it.

But, since I do like to write, I quickly tried to become more careful. I find writing to be a way to stimulate what's left of my mind, and I admit that I still like to see my byline, though it is much harder to get stuff into print now, since magazines are in decline and so much is on the Internet. I can tell you this: I haven't been in it for the money. I probably spend more to try to write and take pics for a piece than I make. But, it is fun to try to write helpful hints types of pieces, and I enjoy penning narratives, too, though no one wants "me and Joe" stories much any more.

I think I am now way off the topic of tournament etiquette.

 

[FarmerDave]

Dang, I guess I missed an interesting thread. It looks like it went all over the place. Wish I had time to read all the responses.

I never witnessed a professional fly fishing (trout) tournament, and I can't say that I really want to. Maybe one, just to see what all the fuss is about.

If I came upon a flyfishing tournament on a trout stream that I had intended on fishing, I would not feel obliged to move on. However, being a sportsman, I likely would, or maybe sit back for awhile and watch. Hell I might learn something.

Or maybe one of them will offer me money to fish another beat. LOL!

I have seen a couple bass tournaments on lakes and it was very easy to not interfere. One I even volunteered to work at the weigh-in. That was kind of fun.

As far as fishing books, I have a few. Bot all but one were gifts (including Dwight's) and most haven't been read by me. I prefer to fish than read about it.

As far as K&T, I don't like to be spoon fed; therefore, I typically don't spoon feed. As a general question, get a general answer.

Ask me where to fish? I'd likely say, in the water would be best. Ask me where to trout fish, I'd likely say in cold water. See those blue lines on the map? Try the smaller ones.

Or I may point someone to the PF&BC website.

Just don't expect me to give up my favorite "gemmie" spots with a question like ... where should I fish.

Ask me about a particular stream? Well, that tells me that you at least did some homework. I'd be happy to discuss more, but maybe not on a public forum if it is a small stream.

What fly to use, or what fly I am using? I have no problem with answering that or even showing you the fly. I likely lifted it from Pro4mance's fly box anyway. LOL! But more times than not, I wasn't catching much, so I'd think that info would be more useful as to what NOT to use. ;-)

 

[FarmerDave]

salmonoid wrote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I think the trout legends, the paff jam, the oil creek event and the hay creek rodeo should all hold its events at the same time on the same stretch of spring creek.

I'll bring popcorn and soda.

You forgot the Kishaquillas Tournament.

Maybe. But then, maybe he just couldn't spell Kishacoquillas, either.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I couldn't spell it you're right ;-)

I didn't include it because if I had to name every trny that goes on in pa, I'd still be typing my response.

 

[NewSal]

rrt wrote:
FYI: I don't know FoxTrapper, but for those of you who think he's not serious about this topic, I'd suggest you think again. I think his tip about pink tungsten beads might be a hint to you about what he thinks of certain types of fishing and fishermen.

Fox: God bless you. I'd guess you're in my age group and remember when you didn't wade in on another guy, at least on purpose. One of that type waded in only 50 yards above me last p.m. when he had miles of water he could've fished. Being old and not so tough, I left and fished elsewhere. If this had been due to a fishing competition, I don't really know what I'd have done. I'm too old and getting feeble to tangle with a 20-yr-old anymore.

Anyhow, everyone, sometimes topics like this one are real eye openers about how differently many of us feel about fly-fishing. I guess I am one of those Nick Lyons (?) referred to when he wrote that [long ago] fly fishermen were a "handful of harmless eccentrics who were engaged in a [then] arcane activity." I can only imagine how Lyons, Traver, etc. would have felt about how demeaning fly-fishing competitions are for all involved.

Sal: Sorry. You seem like a decent sort. I'm sorry that you believe that ff competitions are all right for the fish and fishermen. I hope that as time passes, you recognize these events for what they are. (To repeat: they are held to bolster participants' egos as they compete for money and trophies. They reduce the value of trout as the trout count for only a number in these egomaniacs' quest for their trophies and money.) This is my take on these competitions, and the two times I have been asked to join a ff team, I refused as graciously as I could. I believe they are the antithesis of what fly-fishing for trout ought to be like.

Sorry so long.

rtt :

I'm under the school of thought that if someone else finds happiness in participating in an activity and it doesn't genuinely effect me then its not of my concern. If these guys like to go out and compete that's fine, that does not effect me enough to upset me. The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to. I personally don't think I would enjoy such an activity. I like to fish alone, I don't even necessarily like fishing with a buddy. I enjoy my peace and quiet on the water. But if some other folks like to get together and compete that's fine with me.

"(To repeat: they are held to bolster participants' egos as they compete for money and trophies. They reduce the value of trout as the trout count for only a number in these egomaniacs' quest for their trophies and money.)

But how does that effect you?
I would make a suggestion to you, that you should not take someone else's activities personally, and let be what is. Do what makes you happy, and if a differing opinion makes someone else happy then so be it.

 

[troutbert]

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to.

That is the problem.

When they have these contests, other fishermen go elsewhere. The other anglers are getting displaced. They go to a particular stretch of stream planning to fish, and because of the tournament they get pushed out and go somewhere else.

I've had this happen to me, I've seen it happen to others, and it happened to you.

It's wrong that this is happening on public waters.

 

[NewSal]

troutbert wrote:

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to.

That is the problem.

When they have these contests, other fishermen go elsewhere. The other anglers are getting displaced. They go to a particular stretch of stream planning to fish, and because of the tournament they get pushed out and go somewhere else.

I've had this happen to me, I've seen it happen to others, and it happened to you.

It's wrong that this is happening on public waters.

I didn't have to go anywhere else. I just chose to because I liked the idea of giving the guy fishing the tournament the best chance to win as possible.

Its only one guy fishing a beat per time. How is one guy fishing a 100 some yard stretch of water an interference? I just don't get it. Its no different than any other group of guys fishing. Actually a group of friends is worse because typically they fish close together...


To clarify, I totally understand where you are coming from.
I'm not arguing that your concerns aren't valid because they are, I'm just expressing my own opinion on the matter. I'm not ignorant to the fact that some anglers could feel pressured to not fish a tournament area when they wanted to and have to fish a different area.

Having tournaments on private water would probably be a good compromise for everyone, but for me personally my opinion is that its not that big of a problem.

 

[Fredrick]

troutbert wrote:

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to.

That is the problem.

When they have these contests, other fishermen go elsewhere. The other anglers are getting displaced. They go to a particular stretch of stream planning to fish, and because of the tournament they get pushed out and go somewhere else.

I've had this happen to me, I've seen it happen to others, and it happened to you.

It's wrong that this is happening on public waters.

So when you go to fish somewhere and someone is in that spot already what do you do ?

 

[RLeep2]

To me, the connection between fishing and solitude or at least being able to choose who else is within sight of me when I fish is pretty powerful. This is why I've said many times here in one way or another that I would rather fish for 6" bluegills by myself or with one chosen fishing buddy than to fish a blizzard sulfur hatch on Spring Creek with a half dozen other guys I don't know in sight. I fish to fish, not to also necessarily be available to socialize on demand. That is one more ball than I care to juggle simultaneously.

So, there's that..

Equally, if not more importantly, I've had a bellyful of the notion that competing, winning and the deification of commerce are the Alpha and Omega as well as the prime object of our existence here on this spinning rock. The notion that fishing alone is good, but fishing to win is better. Win, win, win.... We need safe competition-free harbors from this crap. For most of my life, fishing has been widely seen as one of these harbors. Not so much any more and I don't like it. I'm just worried that some day, I'll go visit one of my nieces and and she'll tell me that her soon to be born child is going to be named Bank of America Maloney because BOA was the high bidder to sponsor the first 2 years of post natal medical appointments ands pay the entry fee for the child to participate in the Baby's All-World Decathlon when it turns 2.. A world like this might be OK for you. It isn't for me.

So, have all the tournaments you want, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd hold off for 25 years or so until I'm gone or at the least living on applesauce 3 times a day.

Now, go away so I can fish....

 

[salmonoid]

FarmerDave wrote:

salmonoid wrote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I think the trout legends, the paff jam, the oil creek event and the hay creek rodeo should all hold its events at the same time on the same stretch of spring creek.

I'll bring popcorn and soda.

You forgot the Kishaquillas Tournament.

Maybe. But then, maybe he just couldn't spell Kishacoquillas, either.

Meh - I actually just typed Kish, but apparently my phone autocompleted, which probably means I DID spell it wrong somewhere along the line. It's really Kissikahquelas, but next time, I'll just use "the snakes have gone into their dens."

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to. >>

Look at it this way...You got to explore a new location. It goes along with, "is the river half full of fish or half empty".

 

[NewSal]

PennypackFlyer wrote:
Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to. >>

Look at it this way...You got to explore a new location. It goes along with, "is the river half full of fish or half empty".

That's exactly the attitude I had.