Tournament etiquette

[FarmerDave]

salmonoid wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:

salmonoid wrote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I think the trout legends, the paff jam, the oil creek event and the hay creek rodeo should all hold its events at the same time on the same stretch of spring creek.

I'll bring popcorn and soda.

You forgot the Kishaquillas Tournament.

Maybe. But then, maybe he just couldn't spell Kishacoquillas, either.

Meh - I actually just typed Kish, but apparently my phone autocompleted, which probably means I DID spell it wrong somewhere along the line. It's really Kissikahquelas, but next time, I'll just use "the snakes have gone into their dens."

Naaa, I have the spelling right. I got it off the internet, so it has to be right.

 

[FarmerDave]

troutbert wrote:

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to.

That is the problem.

When they have these contests, other fishermen go elsewhere. The other anglers are getting displaced. They go to a particular stretch of stream planning to fish, and because of the tournament they get pushed out and go somewhere else.

I've had this happen to me, I've seen it happen to others, and it happened to you.

It's wrong that this is happening on public waters.

Wait ... what?

Being a good sportsman is a problem. Got it.

Sal chose to be a good sportsman and fish a few yards downstream. He didn't have to, but chose to. ... and that is a problem to you. You would have preferred a different choice. Hmmm.

Anyone want to buy a book? Like new and unsigned. I'll let it go for cheap and maybe even throw in a map.

Maybe I'll donate it at next years jam auction.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

As long as it doesn't come in a pizza box...how much?

 

[FarmerDave]

Originally I was thinking $12 if I throw in my brand new $12 map of Bald Eagle State Park that I won at the jam this year. But then, I figured the map might be useful if I go to next year's jam.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Pretty soon someone on here will start a thread about Jam etiquettes.

 

[NewSal]

PennypackFlyer wrote:
Pretty soon someone on here will start a thread about Jam etiquettes.

I really didn't intend this thread to become a philosophy on tournaments but sense it did I think it turned out interesting regardless.

I think its interesting that most of the people who argue against tournament fishing don't actually have any solid evidence to back up why there so terrible.

The argument that it messes up peoples fishing and they cant fish the beats is shakey at best, its only one guy per beat, if one guy on a stretch of 100 yards can mess up your fishing you better hang it up.

It appears that tournament fishing is hated / disliked because it threatens to upset the way people think fly fishing should be. But only YOU can control how and why you fly fish, if you start letting other people influence your fishing then you are far too impressionable.

This was not directed towards you in anyway pennypack, just FYI

 

[FarmerDave]

PPF, I think we had one about 4 years ago right after the last jam at Hemlock acres. LOL!

 

[PhilC]

The streams in my area are considered urban so I always have to consider if theres going to be people where I want to fish. This is the case in any water really even the most remote, like where I went yesterday and saw 6 anglers where "you'll never see another angler".

I have never been "displaced" by comp fisherman but have anglers in "my" spots all the time. The worst was a trout derby in Illicks Mill where public water was closed off so they could stock and do the derby...this is also Class A water. There are many things that can clog up a stream: a jamboree, TU meeting, people swimming, recent stocking, guides take clients there, somebody writes a book (and makes money on it) so people have directions on how to get there etc

I have fished a few comps and one time had people in every hole in my beat. I explained the situation to these guys, who were apparently all together, a group of 5. For perspective there were 13 competitors so they were close to half the people there and they were and they were all within 2 beats. This was competitor controlled/judged so you fish and judge on/off so there were at most 7 anglers fishing at a given time and spread out over 2 times the area this group chose. This is still no where near the amount of people that come for a hatch like right now for sulphurs.
That said I would avoid a stream that I know a comp is taking place but not anymore than any other highly pressured situation.

 

[salmonoid]

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

PennypackFlyer wrote:
Pretty soon someone on here will start a thread about Jam etiquettes.

I really didn't intend this thread to become a philosophy on tournaments but sense it did I think it turned out interesting regardless.

I think its interesting that most of the people who argue against tournament fishing don't actually have any solid evidence to back up why there so terrible.

The argument that it messes up peoples fishing and they cant fish the beats is shakey at best, its only one guy per beat, if one guy on a stretch of 100 yards can mess up your fishing you better hang it up.

It appears that tournament fishing is hated / disliked because it threatens to upset the way people think fly fishing should be. But only YOU can control how and why you fly fish, if you start letting other people influence your fishing then you are far too impressionable.

This was not directed towards you in anyway pennypack, just FYI

You must be new here if you didn't think any given thread could turn into a philosophical debate about something

One's perspective towards the philosophy of competitive angling definitely skews one's response to how one would react if a comp was being held on "their" stream. While I personally have no desire to participate in a comp, if someone chooses to set one up, even on public water, that is their prerogative, so long as they are not denying access to other anglers. We all impose our own set of rules on public water, regardless if we acknowledge it or not - we choose to fish with flies, or bait, or spinners, or whatever. We have our own amount of space that we feel other anglers should leave around us. Comp anglers just formalize a competitive aspect of angling, by adding their own additional set of rules. The beauty of angling is you don't have to abide by their set of rules; just hope that there is mutual, reciprocal respect for whatever set of rules everyone is fishing by, meaning a comp angler shouldn't get bent out of shape if you fish a beat, just as a non-comp angler shouldn't get bent out of shape if they arrive on a stream and find it has been laid out with beats because a comp is occurring.

The general feeling seems to be "Every opinion is correct in this matter, so long as it agrees with mine".

PhilC touched on a different take on this that I was mulling over - what if you do go to your super secret water that no one knows about, and you find (to your horror), not one, but two trucks there. One is in the lot beside where you park normally and the other you find further upstream (and a Jeep shows up as you're walking back to your car to sleep for the night). So first, your super secret water is not so secret. Second, the audacity of other anglers to fish "my" water, huh?! Reality is they have every bit as much right to be there as I and if we ignore, for the moment, the rules they are fishing by, this whole discussion is about how much space should one angler give another. For me, I encountered the exact pressure scenario outlined above (although I am under no delusion that any water is super secret) - seven anglers in the woods that had fished the streams I intended to fish, which translated into some poorer fishing than I expected. I could have been bitter about it, but instead had a blast finding the one tributary that was untouched (had a blast catching trouts from it), and then plucking fish from the streams that had seen some pressure already. The fish behaved like they had been recently fished over, but they could still be caught. And all of us anglers managed to peacefully coexist somehow.

 

[NewSal]

salmonoid wrote:

this whole discussion is about how much space should one angler give another.

I think that boils it down, no matter the method or reasoning to be on the stream, as long as you provide reasonable room between you and other fishers everyone should be happy.

Whether it be bait fishers, tournament fishers, or traditionalists with bamboo I think as long as everyone is courteous it doesn't matter what philosophy you are following. Unless your a Hilary supporter, then anything goes .

 

[RyanR]

troutbert wrote:

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

The only real effect it had on me was choosing to fish another stretch of water, I didn't have to.

That is the problem.

When they have these contests, other fishermen go elsewhere. The other anglers are getting displaced. They go to a particular stretch of stream planning to fish, and because of the tournament they get pushed out and go somewhere else.

I've had this happen to me, I've seen it happen to others, and it happened to you.

It's wrong that this is happening on public waters.

Oh c'mon, contest or no contest, if the water is "crowded" anglers find other places to fish anyway. Beat systems tend to actually spread the pressure out so that anglers can all enjoy fishing.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

I just wonder, "how many of you have a dirty hand rag that doubles as a crying towel"?

 

[FarmerDave]

THAT'S IT! I GOT IT!

We can pass out crying towels as participation awards!

 

[salmonoid]

FarmerDave wrote:
THAT'S IT! I GOT IT!

We can pass out crying towels as participation awards!

But will they be full size towels or hand towels?

 

[FarmerDave]

All these decisions ...

But the answer is yes. Towel size will be based on merit, but everybody gets one.

The most deserving will get a beach towel... maybe a blanket.

 

[NewSal]

FarmerDave wrote:
All these decisions ...

But the answer is yes. Towel size will be based on merit, but everybody gets one.

The most deserving will get a beach towel... maybe a blanket.

Why not just gather everyone around and create a safe-space as to not hurt anyone's feelings

 

[FarmerDave]

Salvelinusfontinali wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:
All these decisions ...

But the answer is yes. Towel size will be based on merit, but everybody gets one.

The most deserving will get a beach towel... maybe a blanket.

Why not just gather everyone around and create a safe-space as to not hurt anyone's feelings

It's called the jam.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

I can do the silk screening!

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Safe space is only determined by where/how you mainly fish. A city person (which I am) has a space about the size of a 9' flyrod with the arm extended, maybe a little more. I am happy to share a pool with someone and have a conversation. If I feel I am intruding, I will ask permission to invade an area. (a simple "ok to fish through", usually is responded with an ok.) Someone who lives out in the country may feel that you are invading their space if you are within sight or ear shot of each other.

 

[lestrout]

Re Pen's "Someone who lives out in the country may feel that you are invading their space if you are within sight or ear shot of each other."

Then there's the boonies: I was driving through Colorado one day, far, far from Denver, spotted a lovely stream, then saw a flyfisher. I pulled over, and the area was so remote that I could have left the rental square in the middle of the road for a few hours. I tried to strike up a conversation with my fellow ffisher. He was an old-timer and more than typically taciturn.

I greeted him by saying I was a flyfisher too; that got no repsonse. I expressed how I wanted to ffish the stream, but didn't want to crowd him. I explained out East what a polite separation was, depending on the water (1 cast away on the Beaverkill; arm's length in SE PA stocked waters; elbow length in NJ). Still no response.

So I got to the point and asked how far from him I could ffish without crowding him. Here were his only words: "Well, I reckon if'n I can get a good bead on you with a 30-06, you might be a little too close."

But he was smiling (I think).