The Spotburning Thread

It seems to me after reading over this whole schpiel, that the original post was to not create a stream report that contains a bunch of replies complaining and bitching about how someone is spotburning their favorite honey hole.
I kind of have to agree with the posters who make the case that there is not really much chance of spotburning on most streams, due to the wealth of info available.
I have also read many suggestions about how to limit stream reports by, limiting it to this and that. None of which I think have come up with the easiest method of all. Make a stream report, and the thread is locked immediately, NO relies period. Its a stream report,Period, no additional comment necessary. If you have something to add, make your own report, or start a thread in the general discussion. They could all be organized into folders for particular streams. There doesn't seem to be a lot of different streams there , alot of repeats. Put them in order alphabetically and then reports would stack up chronologically also. Might be alot of work to set up for admin. But it would be easy to lock threads after the original post. Works well in the for Sale section of another forum I am a member of, Original post no replies.
 
Random thoughts:

1) If the barrier to entry to read stream reports was raised (members only or members only with minimum posts) and the information posted there is so valuable, don't you think people would sign up, and just post fifty messages to gain access? It really does nothing to "protect" the streams.

2) There is certainly a causal relationship between a stream being made public (not just on Paflyfish.com, but anywhere, be it PFBC lists, a magazine, a book, a blog, etc.) and that stream seeing increased fishing pressure. But I think we overestimate the average increase that all this publicity generates for the stream. There are of course exceptions to the rule, but by an large, I think the causal relationship is not as strong as it is sometimes blown up to be.

3) There are a limited number of PA tribs that flow into Erie; I'm not sure how its possible to spot burn a PA steelhead trib!

4) If there's such concern about stream reports, a solution is to leave them all public, but completely disable comments in that forum. That keeps the conversation clean, and prevents those that think spot burning is occurring from posting to a "secret" stream report, and thereby drawing even more attention to it.

5) I share streams via PM, not publicly. I'm sure some of the streams I've shared have received an extra fisherperson. But I'm loathe to jump to conclusions that my PMs had a major impact on a stream; consider one stream I fished today. Previously, I had fished it two years ago. Its a small first-order stream; its twin headwater produced well two years ago, so I ventured into this stream. It also produced well, with fish in every spot that looked like it could hold a trout. Last winter, I fished it; didn't see a fish. Saw fish guts in the one pool. Fished it today; saw only young of year (good) and missed two fish that were about three inches. Large fish are gone; was it because I PMed someone about the stream? Or was it because the one whole side of the valley was logged two years ago and the stream is now like a flume, especially after the floods went through in the fall (in essence, the stream is worn down to solid bedrock in many places)? Or was it because we had a warm, dry snap this past summer that did in the bulk of the fish? There's absolutely no conclusive evidence to point to any one thing as to the cause of the decline of the fisherie.

I'm willing to walk 8 to 10 miles a day on a day-long fishing trip. Not too many people are willing to do that I don't think. Of course, there are few places in PA that are remote, but there are enough places that are difficult enough to get to that someone will be glad to fish near a parking lot, instead of even walking two miles. Its kind of like hunting; something like 90% of the hunters are within half a mile of a parking lot (or something like that; can't remember the exact number, the the Game Commission did a study at one point). Few venture beyond that.
 
The difference is reading a book or visiting the pfbc website and doing research requires effort whereas reading a real time glorifying strem post is a spoon feeding and requires no effort.

I found bs by doing research. I read meck, landis and wolffs books and ignored many streams, honed in on a few strems, did research, fished them and then targeted one that I though was the best yet at face value it was by far the least productive of the lot based on initial experiences. I figured ultimately figured it out through hard work.
 
Here are 2 possible reports.

Fished the east branch of the delaware. Got to fishes eddy about 11am and by 12.30 the river was alive with hendricksons and what looked like every fish in the stream was rising. Over the next 2 hours just below the abandoned bridge I caught 12 HUGE bows and lost twice as many. Holy crap I have never seen so many trout rising in my life!

Or

Fished the eb of the Delaware and hit a good Hendrickson hatch about 12.30. Lots of trout rising and I had one of the best days ever having landed about about 12 good sized bows.

In my opinion one report is spot burning while the other provides stream info. Report 1 narrows the hatch to a 1/4 mile stretch while the 2nd report could be anywhere on a 25 mile stretch so do not be surprised if fishes eddy sees a huge increase if the first report was posted.



 
As for spot burning, your best fishing buddy or relative can be your worst enemy. I garuantee if you take someone fishing at your favorite spot they will go back and take someone with them, it's human nature.
GW, I stand by what I said, How can you spot nurn the Delaware River, it has no secrets, trust me. Everyone knows the good holes.
 
Chaz, you've had a hard life. You should have my friend and my brother. I don't mind posts about the WB.....it's the ones about that little stream where the army spent the winter that are KILLING me.
 
Aaaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhh! Burn one if ya got it. I have a better one in my satchel. I say get rid of the stream reports all together. I quit reading them years ago. It is the old you should have been here....
 
You realize this spot-burning debate is absurd right? There are real issues that effect fisheries a hundred times more severely: fracking, stocking over wild fish, agriculture, urban runoff... the list goes on and on.

Anglers should be putting a lot more thought into these issues instead of whining about spot burning. Seriously. People are drilling the hell out of areas adjacent some of the best wild trout water in the state, carelessly stocking over wild fish, piping effluent into the state's best trout streams, and this is what people get the most worked up about?

I don't care about spot burning for a second. I had the entire C&R section on penns to myself today and the fish were going bananas. I'd rather see other anglers get out there and catch a few wild fish so that they know what a great day of fishing can be. Maybe then they'd be more sympathetic toward the resources that need to be protected.

Within the last 50 years many of PAs best streams have been RUINED by pollution. They will never recover. Many of the best hatches on spring creek and the little Juniata are gone forever. The list of impaired streams is a lot longer than the list of ones that have not been affected. Care about something that actually matters. Spot-burning isn't on that list.

Also, people need to stop pretending that spot-burning is about protecting a resource. The spot burning debate is about nothing more than people being selfish.
 
I enjoy reading stream reports much more than hearing all the vitriol over them....

I moved to SCPA in 1998....had read about Big Spring but never fished it. Heard about the public meeting to renew the NPDES on this site. Back then Dr Jack Black and Macri posted here compelling my interest in seeing it become what it could be....or once was. We organized a group from her to add to the numbers at that meeting and the crowd size and presentations convinced local state rep Will Gabig to pull the plug on the the ramrod the F&BC and DEP had produced. It felt great to see that Hatchery close and also felt great to have been a part of it.

Since then I have followed its comeback mainly from here and through F&BC reports and have concluded that the result is tremendously better than it was when Herb Weigel used to guide from his tailgate at the ditch.

I have fished it probably five times total, have not caught that many fish probably but always enjoy time spent there. Its a piece of PA flyfishing heritage.

Its seen eager participation from volunteers and state agencies to improve its status. It has great public access. It certainly deserves to be fished by more than a few regulars. Public dollars went into the stream, its access and it will likely continue to be so. With more surveys and conclusions drawn it is likely that more habitat will be added. Perhaps with constructive input from some of the regulars in a productive manner more appropriate techniques could be employed in future project areas.

But the fact of the matter is that its here to stay. It will get more popular with more attention and those who got in before the IPO will have to live with the result. Enjoy the memories like the 90 year olds do that fished it before the hatcheries. The attention this board brought to that stream played a part in the rebound. Its only been 11 or so years since the hatchery closed. It was said it could take ten years....it did. and it ain't over yet.

I suspect with all the attention it gets through fishing pressure will disappoint the few who knew it in its early recovery hayday as shown every time it comes up. The knowledge shared by those experts is much more specific to spots than someone saying they saw a 20" fish here or there. The incessant beating on those willing to share their excitement of this stream with renewed life far overshadows the OP details. Its silly really. But I can understand how it can be hard to let go. Its like a child going to college.....its not yours alone anymore but it will become better. Maybe more challenging, tougher, smarter even harder to get time alone with her. But she is better and hopefully you were a part of making her better....you should be proud. She may need more work and new more innovative ideas. If not and you were only a user or excessive user, I can see the sour grapes feeling.



 
Ok, tell my WHY, as a guide, why I should post anything...in the PRO Forum? If I say I guided/fished on say...Big Fishing Creek and did not tell your where...I should post anything. The end is near. So nobody knows about Big Fishing Creek, Spring Creek, Penns Creek or others?
 
I tend to think most of the anger towards "spot burning" has more to do with personal greed than a concern for the "resource."

I don't think it is wrong to want to keep a stream that you feel is your personal secret from becoming popular with other anglers, but cryting "protect the resource" often seems disingenuous at best. I'd rather people be honest and admit that they feel a particular stream is "theirs" and are angry that others may potentially find out about it.

As others have stated, there is a wealth of concrete, factual information puplished on the internet in regard to our wild trout streams. If someone wants to find wild trout they can easily do it without lurking on this site. For me, online stream reports are only a secondary source of information for me. By the time I read them I've already decided whether I want to try a particular stream or not.

Kev
 
Does spot burning happen? Yes.

I have been fishing the maze of Pennsylvania waterways a long dang time. I have seen my fair share of neat places, beautiful streams and caught more than my fair share of fish. Still I have barely even scratched the surface. In 2005, 457 stream sections were classified as supporting trout reproduction, representing more than 1,355 linear miles of stream. The state publishes a list of 1,500 streams that support naturally reproducing populations of trout and that list is growing. If we can't talk about the occasional stream here....where can we?

The entire time I have been fishing I have never seen a wild trout stream wiped out by pressure. I have seen the adult population take a hit by over harvest and mishandling. In wild trout streams there is usually an abundance of 2-3" fish and you dont catch them.

Think about it :lol:

I think one time I calculated a rough estimate of the poundage of fish in our PA wilderness. Over 2 million if I remember correctly and that is a low ball estimate for just our forest land. The number is probably much higher.

Occasionally a stream gets talked about. Gee would be nice to see some of the 1000 streams Ill likely never visit!

Its ridiculous. I'm done :lol:
 
Actually,

Heaven forbid someone attempt to bring you some form of entertainment on this website and try to contribute something. I mean come on, the real things that effect wild trout the most is environment and habitat. Lets not try to bring a spark to the website and sport by writing something. Better yet, lets not let someone go somewhere new and enjoy a resource before it crashes. They are good in spurts and seasonal sometimes. Wild trout move and migrate all over PA.

Lets just complain and fight instead.

Big Spring is a totally different subject and should have its own thread.
 
Dear Kev and midnightangler,

+2 Thanks for getting it!

You too sal!

Regards,

Tim Murphy ;-)
 
IF there was no debate and it was ridiculous there wouldn't be nine pages with an equal number of people on each side.
 
krayfish Its funny you mention the Delware and not being spot burned, been fishing there for years, i can tel you that although you're gods gift to it, it was actually better about 10 years ago prior to a few magazine articles and oh well the internet.
 
I think people on both sides think they are right and may feel this as "being no debate." I think that poster is also saying the "debate" is senseless since each of us simply re-re-reiterate what our basic belief is.

Importantly, the board owner does not want any other threads polluted with spot-burning discussion or even snarky comments.

Everyone should understand that a post outside of this thread on this very topic will be deleted, and that may be unsatisfactory to any given poster as there may have been some other useful and constructive information in the deleted post.

Oh, well! That's how it is gonna be.

To people who enjoy sharing information, you have the permission and welcome of the board owner. Title your report properly, provide useful information about weather and water conditions, hatch information, effective flies and techniques, and if you wish, tell us the size and number of your catch. You will not be harassed anymore because EF Hutton has spoken. And if you want to describe the GPS location and exact rock the 24" brookie is hiding behind, that is OK too. It is your choice, though, and you need not share any information unless you want to do so.
 
I have honestly tried to keep up with this thread but I'm sure have missed something along the way. Has EF Hutton weighed in on the suggestions put forth? I'm not advocating he agree or disagree just wondering.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Harman's North Fork Cottages
Wayward Trading”/> </center> </div> </div> </div> <div class=


Real Time Data From
the USGS Site

Share this page

Back
Top