The Spotburning Thread

[bikerfish]

and FWIW, when someone posts a stream report that the "all knowing" deem sensitve, why must you bring more attention to it by complaining about the report?
think about that for a bit.

 

[trout_stalker]

Wow, this must be a hot topic. Six pages of responses in 7-hrs. Is that a record?

 

[streamerguy]

Making the stream reports section members only imo won't be of much help, all the harvesters, etc. could just register, anyone can do it and it takes only a few seconds. Now as said earlier if the stream reports section was members only AND you had to have 50 or 100 posts under your belt then that would help, since it would force you to contribute to the forum, etc. in order to view/post in the SR section.

And as said before, if you're worried about the stream getting too much pressure, just don't post the name of it, unless you want to share via PM. I'll admit, when I first joined the site I asked questions regarding small streams as I didn't know much about the area and didn't want to drive 3 hours to get skunked. I didn't know about the whole spotburning issue at the time, so I just went ahead and posted, but I eventually got PM's about the streams and eventually figured out noone wants these little creeks posted on hear for the world to see, and I agree since they're real precious resources and can't take a bunch of pressure, I just didn't realize all the traffic this site gets and a lot of the people are looking for spots to fill up a stringer/cooler. And the people I received PM's from seem real nice and helpfull and even asked if I wanted to fish with them, hopefully I'll get to get out with some of you guys this spring.

Now about all the stocked ATW's, the PFBC spot burned all of those and they get re-stocked every year, so I could care less about naming those streams.

 

[bingsbaits]

Some of my earlier posts were the same Pat.
Didn't realize the power of the interwebs at the time.

Although I would have to say I have picked up alot of info on new streams when they were posted about..
Would that fall under hypocrisy or irony ???


I still get a nasty PM from the "River God" everytime I post a pic of Kinzua dam....

 

[JackM]

trout_stalker wrote:
Wow, this must be a hot topic. Six pages of responses in 7-hrs. Is that a record?

No easy way to tell, but touch the "Replies" heading in the forum and sort according to # of replies and you will find many threads where all of us have said the same thing over and over again on this very topic.

 

[krayfish]

Did anyone mention the drakes are hatching on Penns?

 

[Fishidiot]

GreenWeenie wrote:
... the stream today (February 7, 2012) is 100000 times better than it was in 2001. However, setting aside your pet 200 yard stretch of restored area, the overall C&R section, and even extending down in the ATW section, is not as good atoday as it was in August 2010 prior to the work.

Wow. I thought we'd never agree on anything relating to BS. Hurray! 🙂

It is indeed far better.....and this is worth celebrating alone.

BTW: the restored section is closer to 670 yards although not all of it has been changed (most of it has).

Whether or not it's "better" today than 2010 is a personal opinion. If you consider "better" as measurable in trout biomass in the FFO, than it is indeed better now than 2010. If you wish to argue this, by all means contact the PFBC and discuss with them their conclusions/methodologies.

With regards to the lower ATW section: I'm not sure they used any baseline data for this. There has been some optimism that fish populations are improving closer to town. Fish surveys in the past have consistently shown a poor population down there consisting usually of only a handful of stockies.... so a request was put in to check some apparently good holding water to see if there were any wild trout. The biologists I talked to during this survey said that the spots they checked were lacking fish. Since the survey, they have considered why this might be (as you know, there is good habitat down there). A study was done on dissolved oxygen and the results show better DO #s up in the FFO and lower ones down in the ATW. Perhaps DO might be a problem? I don't know. Glad to hear you have caught fish there.

 

[krayfish]

After wasting a small but valuable portion of my sh*tty life reading this, I'm compelled to toss my 2 cents in.

I saw some posts that suggested a stream report with photos of fish, bugs and beautiful scenery but no stream name. How in the hell is that a stream report. Why not put that under the heading of "hero reports"? If you think you have a secret stream that is on public land, you are freaking delusional. I can’t stand the shroud of secrecy thing.

Penns, Yellow Breeches, Clarks, Spring, Lehigh, Tulpehocken, Oil, Clarion, Kettle, Valley, Cedar, blah, blah. Did I list a bunch of streams in PA or just spot burn them? I guess it would depend if the Spring and Cedar I mentioned are your secret honey holes or the more recognized ones. At any rate, who cares?

As for the members only viewing of stream reports, not a bad idea.

BTW, looked for you at the show Dave but couldn't find ya.


Have a blessed day. 🙂

 

[JackM]

On the members only issue and then a required # of posts, you would only make it harder for the alleged lurkers. But now with the promise of being trusted into the secret club, they know the Stream Reports will be EVEN MORE valuable, so we'll have to put up with 50 posts or 100 posts a day by the lurkers trying to gain entry to the secret society. I think rather we should quiz them before allowing entry:

1. What is a Quill Gordon?
2. How do you tie a nail knot?
3. Etc.?

 

[Chaz]

THANK IT's ABOUT TIME.
As for the spot burning issue, I can see that with some people it may be a hot issue, but they make even more of an issue by screaming about spot burning, because that piques everyones interest. I suspect the very people that complain about spot burning are people who go to the same streams all the time and don't want someone there fishing their favorite hole.

Get off you high horse, unless it's a stream that is not on any Fish Commission lists and find wild trout there, you are doing a huge dis-service to the resource by not telling them about the stream because then it gets no protection from impairment. So grow up.

As to the highjacking of threads, yes please if you have something to say that is not on topic create your own thread!

 

[DotMan]

You really can’t spot burn an already well known stream/river. I do think that popularity does help reduce poaching because they are less likely to try it with so much foot traffic and hopefully someone will report/stop poaching if seen. Yeah I know apples and oranges according to some, but think about it this way: If most of us are C&R what’s the real harm besides feeling like too many people invading what is perceived to be our own slice of trout heaven. Heck if nothing else, it gives you an opportunity to explore another stream if your gem is crowded.

I am concerned about restricting the Streams Report Section, for my own selfish reason you could say. I have only 53 posts over a five year period. Does that mean I am not worthy to read said reports? There are many that follow this board for what it is, a source of knowledge about where, when and how. Yet, they do not post much. It’s not easy to run or moderate a fly fishing forum except for the Drake with its self moderation, yes I post there too and see the difference.

One thing that stands out most in these kinds of conversations is some people just don’t know when to stop with the back and forth, instead of saying their opinion and then be done with it and move on.

Dot

 

[Fishidiot]

DotMan wrote:
I am concerned about restricting the Streams Report Section, for my own selfish reason you could say. I have only 53 posts over a five year period. Does that mean I am not worthy to read said reports? There are many that follow this board for what it is, a source of knowledge about where, when and how. Yet, they do not post much.
One thing that stands out most in these kinds of conversations is some people just don’t know when to stop with the back and forth, instead of saying their opinion and then be done with it and move on.

Dot

DOT,
You make a fair point. This issue has undermined past considerations of having limited access to Stream Reports or other forums. I don't know a fair and equitable solution.

As for people who can't drop the SB subject: human nature I suppose. It's a subject that everybody has an opinion on (often strong ones) and there are some folks here on the forum who are deeply frustrated with the issue - from both sides of the argument. Our goal with this thread was to provide a spot where folks could let off some steam on the issue without derailing other threads or harassing those who post honest stream reports. We encourage stream reports - this is not negotiable. However, the SB topic just needs to air itself out here on Paff from time to time and the last couple days have brought it back to a head. It comes and goes....but the topic will always be of interest to our readers.

 

[PhilC]

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
Ff already has negative stereotypes of people being arrogant.

This is the absolute worst thing about flyfishing!!!! Far worse than spot burning. Just becuase you can cast a fly rod or tie a fly doesn't give the right to be ann a$$hole. Or I hope that flyfishing isn't just a magnet for a$$holes.
I'm 31 now, and was going through the same crap when I was 25. It was so dissappointing that I stopped talking to FFers on the stream altogether. Even to this day, it takes me some extra effort to talk to FFers on the stream.

I think this behavior is detrimental to the sport. You could disagree if you feel that FFing is too popular and turning people away is a good thing.
I respect the anti-spot burning sentiment, but not being an a$$ about it. Yes there's a lot of good in making people aware of what can happen by posting spots, #'s of fish, etc but don't think being an a$$ is necessary.
Maybe it can be more constructive. Like after informing them of your crowding concerns ask if they are a TU member, if they will join the next clean up, restoration efforts, etc ...for those that feel justified in your snobbery, I hope you are doing these things

 

[fishrich]

this spot burning is a funny thing! I can not see any stream being spot burned simply because of all the information that is out there. Books ,maps, pa fishing web site and web sites like this. i catch and release and enjoy being on the streams. The famous streams like the Letort and yellow breeches and BS also Valley creek and penns and big springs and fishing creek and little juianta can not be burned. If i want to fish them i look at a map and go. Everyone who flyfishes knows them.

Two quick spot burning stories


I have a cabin in central pennsylvania and it is great bear country. We had been watching three bears on the pipeline all summer. the month before bear season PA outdoor news puts out an article saying are area iis great for bear hunting. SPOT BURNED. one thing it is all public land.i just like watching the bears.

The second stories is I fish in saltwater flounder tournaments. I go with the same captain every year. he is a charter captain. two weeks before tournament i want to fish , the captain i go with is unavailable so i go with another guy. Our conversation turn to the tournament and i tell him who i go with and he asks if i am there to get secret spots and information. i tell him ya. the secret info is jigging bucktails in the old grounds for flounder. to those who fish , this is basic information.


Hard to spot burn when everyone know!

 

[tomitrout]

Tomi,

So for the last dozen years you've kind of been out of it but yet know what is actually going on becuase......you rode your bike by it every night??????????

Yep, I kinda think that gives me a perspective on the amount of pressure it's been seeing, much the same as any other person who drives by on a regular basis. In fact I often will drive by, taking the long way home if it's on the way, just to get a feel for how crowded it actually is. And after all these years, I have yet to be through there whether pedaling or by motor vehicle where I wouldn't be able to find a stretch of water to have to myself, no matter the season or time of day.

Other than that, yes I have fished it both before and after the restoration work, not nearly as extensively as you of course (lordy, who has?????), but I do have some recent experience with it both immediately before and after the restoration. And although you're assuming that my pet spot is a 200yd stretch of the project water, I've actually been having greater success downstream, you know, where it's apparently now a silted in, poached out, troutless wasteland. I guess I just don't know any better.

So what does any of that mean? Nothing really, other than we have differing opinions over what constitutes a quality fishing experience based upon obviously different expectations and baselines for judgement. Like FI suggested, if you don't believe the survey data or question their motives, then take it up w/ the PFBC for an explanation and convince them that you know better based upon your before & after catch rates and ninja like skillz with the flyrod. Maybe drop some of those famous names for them and then please, please take them for a tour down along those ruined stretches along with those dastardly wrongdoers of CVTU and convince them that they've ruined your stream and must change course NOW!! Maybe also send out some cease and desist letters to all the sites that pop up when you google "fishing big spring creek pa." Oh, would you look at that, PAFF doesn't even make the first page...

Or just continue to ***** and moan on these interwebs.

Good luck with whichever choice you make and tight lines. I think I might go fishing, I hear the drakes are happening up on Penns...

 

[Chaz]

Green Weenie, That stream was never under the radar, it's been a well know trout stream for 200 years or more. Anglers used to make a weeklong trip there on foot from Philly to go fish it. I've seen the creek come from have nearly no trout, early 90's to what it is today, and if you think that having a bunch of anglers caring about it is a bad thing, you are absolutely wrong, because before the hatchery was closed no one cared and figured it was a lost cause.
My beef is that PFBC had an opportunity to do the right thing and take the browns and bows out and they didn't, which makes it to me and folks that would like to see it as a wild brookie stream undesirable. So what would you rather have a stream that no one cares about or a stream that has its advocates? You can't have both. I do agree that it isn't what it was 2 years ago, but I have different reasons for thinking that.

 

[BMarx]

Tomi, you're only the 3rd guy to use that line! funny bro!

The point is not for keeping people from googling it to find information, the point is pointing it out to people who had no idea they should google it in the first place.

Check your follower status at the door bro.

 

[Chaz]

GW, Are you saying that the Delaware River can be spot burned? Give me a break. There's at least 75 miles of trout water on the Delaware, and that's being conservative. It has it's advocates, but don't include me in that group, I happen to think it is never going to be what it could be, and therefore won't go there chasing something that at best is not going to something less than expected.
And Penns Creek, It's so well known for it's hatches that aliens come from light years away to fish it. You've picked 3bad examples of spot burning by including BS as a stream that is spot burned.

 

[Chaz]

I'd be happy with only yhe OP posting on the stream reports, that was the original intention of the reports. I won't post reports any more because I don't think the original intention or spirit if you will are foolowed and the reports get highjacked anyway.

 

[troutslammer]

The most hilarious part of the whole spread out the pressure and talk at will that Jack speaks of is that he has only made # 2 stream report posts in the last yr and a half !!!! Now either he has only been out twice in that yr and a half , which we all know this isn't true by his accounts. So one has to ask himself does Jack M actually practice what he preaches or does he not fish ? Either way it is totally hilariousa now carry on with the non sense fellas. This site is always good for a laugh.