Catskills JAM: Need some info / help from attendees
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sight_nymph_17109
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Hopefully this helps ....
If you are looking to nymph fast pocket water w/ boulders, you'll need to fish the Esopus or Ausable. That's not the type of water offered by the Delaware River (in general)
Photos of what water you'd typically find on the WB or Big D.
If you are looking to nymph fast pocket water w/ boulders, you'll need to fish the Esopus or Ausable. That's not the type of water offered by the Delaware River (in general)
Photos of what water you'd typically find on the WB or Big D.
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sight_nymph_17109
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I just wanted to clear it up for someone that's not fished there before. This info may also be useful...
* If you're wading and you like to nymph, it won't hurt to be in shape. You'll have 1/4 - 1 mile hikes between riffs. Walking can be done inside of the high water line only. Easy walking in some spots and not so easy in other spots. Depends on what section you choose to fish. Fishing near main access / launch points will make for easier wading but will have increased boat / foot traffic.
* If you are floating the river, it is a mix of 1/4 - 1/2 mile long riffs which are followed by long flat pools that are 1/4 - 1 mile long. Some rowing will be required to get through some of the sections. Rowing can be fairly taxing depending on flows and wind conditions. A change in weather conditions during the middle of a float can turn it into an exhausting workout. 95+% of the land bordering the rivers would be private property. You'll have to reach the take out point before you may exit the water.
* If you're wading and you like to nymph, it won't hurt to be in shape. You'll have 1/4 - 1 mile hikes between riffs. Walking can be done inside of the high water line only. Easy walking in some spots and not so easy in other spots. Depends on what section you choose to fish. Fishing near main access / launch points will make for easier wading but will have increased boat / foot traffic.
* If you are floating the river, it is a mix of 1/4 - 1/2 mile long riffs which are followed by long flat pools that are 1/4 - 1 mile long. Some rowing will be required to get through some of the sections. Rowing can be fairly taxing depending on flows and wind conditions. A change in weather conditions during the middle of a float can turn it into an exhausting workout. 95+% of the land bordering the rivers would be private property. You'll have to reach the take out point before you may exit the water.
Good info on the D above. IMO, to catch fish on the D you should try to go with the flow.
If fish are rising give them a go. They’re very tough to fool, but I wouldn’t pass by fish actively feeding. If you’re a dry fly only guy you may become frustrated and end up sitting on the bank most of the day or just taking a boat ride. But on the right day, you can land a boat load. You never really know.
If nothing is rising, try nymphing the riffs. It works well, very well at times, but other times it seems like the River is devoid of all living creatures.
If the water is up or a little off color and/or the fish are in the chasing mood, they may slam streamers.
The dark horse way of fishing on the D is wets. I’ve had success using them when all of the above fail. In my experience, wets seem to work best before or during or an active hatch, and in the faster water.
What’s going on one section of the River may be totally different on the next.
And when you think you have things dialed in…it changes.
You just never know ‘til you’re there.
Keep an open mind, don’t get locked in to one method or type of water, and be versatile with your fishin’.
And after all that, if you still smell the skunk...just blame Sight!
If fish are rising give them a go. They’re very tough to fool, but I wouldn’t pass by fish actively feeding. If you’re a dry fly only guy you may become frustrated and end up sitting on the bank most of the day or just taking a boat ride. But on the right day, you can land a boat load. You never really know.
If nothing is rising, try nymphing the riffs. It works well, very well at times, but other times it seems like the River is devoid of all living creatures.
If the water is up or a little off color and/or the fish are in the chasing mood, they may slam streamers.
The dark horse way of fishing on the D is wets. I’ve had success using them when all of the above fail. In my experience, wets seem to work best before or during or an active hatch, and in the faster water.
What’s going on one section of the River may be totally different on the next.
And when you think you have things dialed in…it changes.
You just never know ‘til you’re there.
Keep an open mind, don’t get locked in to one method or type of water, and be versatile with your fishin’.
And after all that, if you still smell the skunk...just blame Sight!
sight_nymph_17109
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afishinado sums it up pretty well.
The river is so diverse, you can't imagine it. If you are looking to nymph only, you'll have to work to do in order to get from one riff to another. If you are fishing dries only, you may not get off a single cast for 6-7 hrs. If you are in a pool and don't see a single bug all day, it's possible to find out at the diner later in the evening that the guys fishing 1/2 mile down river had a blizzard hatch and caught 20+ fish per man.
I prefer to fish dries because of the challenge. If it ain't happening, it ain't happening. I'll nymph or streamer fish. Unless you are out there just for the beauty of nature, why limit yourself? I floated w/ Alpa and EsopusGuy last month. EG = 99.999% nymph fishing, Alpa & me = 95% dry fly fishing. There were 0% hatches so all guys nymphed for 7-8 hrs straight. I think it was painful for Alpa but I had more tangle ups.
When wading up there, it's not uncommon for me to put 75-100 miles on the car in one day. Drive from river to river in search of where the insect activity is happening. Lot's of wasted time, gas and many hours sitting on the banks watching. If you find the bugs, you'll find the most active fish. Without the bugs, you can still catch fish but once you stumble upon a hatch, you'll probably seek them out again in the future. Catch rate 3-5x better, bigger fish and a lot more fun.
When floating, I cover MILES or river. I'm not interested in standing in one section for 2 hrs nymphing or parking and waiting on the bank for 4 hrs hoping to see a hatch. To me, that defeats the purpose of floating. I'm searching for bugs as much as I'm searching for fish. I've found it in the middle of a float, parked and fished for hours. Sure, I rowed my boat for 2 hrs in the dark to get out but I did it with a big grin on my face.
If you aren't well rounded and / or willing to fish dry, wet, streamer.... you're just hurting yourself and really limiting what you'll catch. If you're good with that idea, go with it. Don't expect me to understand or change my way of fishing to accommodate.
Since the sulphur hatch slowed and the water temps rose, the fishing hasn't been very good for me on the river system. Very slow and lots of fish in the 8-11" range. I'm hoping that the warm water temps hasn't done too much damage. Based on the last 2 months, I'm not expecting great fishing for the JAM but you never know.
Lastly, I'm going in September and organized it as a fishing trip. That's why I'm going. I'll have a couple of lagers and play a few hands of cards. I'm not going to be up til all hours of the night or party so that I can't get up and fish. If I want to get hammered and sleep until 1, I can do that at home and save the 3+ hr drive.
As for the 'frog water' term... some call it that when it's very slow and very flat. The derogatory term is used by those who feel they are above fishing it or don’t have the patience / skill to take fish in that type of water. BTW, the “frog water” has the biggest fish in the river. Less current to fight and lots of minnow forage. When there’s a big hatch, they get to the surface, open their mouths and swim upriver. You have to lead them or guess where they are headed next. Frustrating but it can pay big when you get it right. Why haven’t I ever heard a dry fly fisherman complain about riffles or have a term for that type of water? Help me out if I’m wrong.
The river is so diverse, you can't imagine it. If you are looking to nymph only, you'll have to work to do in order to get from one riff to another. If you are fishing dries only, you may not get off a single cast for 6-7 hrs. If you are in a pool and don't see a single bug all day, it's possible to find out at the diner later in the evening that the guys fishing 1/2 mile down river had a blizzard hatch and caught 20+ fish per man.
I prefer to fish dries because of the challenge. If it ain't happening, it ain't happening. I'll nymph or streamer fish. Unless you are out there just for the beauty of nature, why limit yourself? I floated w/ Alpa and EsopusGuy last month. EG = 99.999% nymph fishing, Alpa & me = 95% dry fly fishing. There were 0% hatches so all guys nymphed for 7-8 hrs straight. I think it was painful for Alpa but I had more tangle ups.
When wading up there, it's not uncommon for me to put 75-100 miles on the car in one day. Drive from river to river in search of where the insect activity is happening. Lot's of wasted time, gas and many hours sitting on the banks watching. If you find the bugs, you'll find the most active fish. Without the bugs, you can still catch fish but once you stumble upon a hatch, you'll probably seek them out again in the future. Catch rate 3-5x better, bigger fish and a lot more fun.
When floating, I cover MILES or river. I'm not interested in standing in one section for 2 hrs nymphing or parking and waiting on the bank for 4 hrs hoping to see a hatch. To me, that defeats the purpose of floating. I'm searching for bugs as much as I'm searching for fish. I've found it in the middle of a float, parked and fished for hours. Sure, I rowed my boat for 2 hrs in the dark to get out but I did it with a big grin on my face.
If you aren't well rounded and / or willing to fish dry, wet, streamer.... you're just hurting yourself and really limiting what you'll catch. If you're good with that idea, go with it. Don't expect me to understand or change my way of fishing to accommodate.
Since the sulphur hatch slowed and the water temps rose, the fishing hasn't been very good for me on the river system. Very slow and lots of fish in the 8-11" range. I'm hoping that the warm water temps hasn't done too much damage. Based on the last 2 months, I'm not expecting great fishing for the JAM but you never know.
Lastly, I'm going in September and organized it as a fishing trip. That's why I'm going. I'll have a couple of lagers and play a few hands of cards. I'm not going to be up til all hours of the night or party so that I can't get up and fish. If I want to get hammered and sleep until 1, I can do that at home and save the 3+ hr drive.
As for the 'frog water' term... some call it that when it's very slow and very flat. The derogatory term is used by those who feel they are above fishing it or don’t have the patience / skill to take fish in that type of water. BTW, the “frog water” has the biggest fish in the river. Less current to fight and lots of minnow forage. When there’s a big hatch, they get to the surface, open their mouths and swim upriver. You have to lead them or guess where they are headed next. Frustrating but it can pay big when you get it right. Why haven’t I ever heard a dry fly fisherman complain about riffles or have a term for that type of water? Help me out if I’m wrong.
sight_nymph_17109
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The Esopus in 65-80 minutes north and requires a NY license. That's the home stream of.... you guessed it.... EsopusGuy. He'll be more that happy to show you around. Bring lots of lead. It's HAULING!
Ausable must be 2-3 hrs above the Esopus. Up near Lake George. It is also a high gradient river. Can be dangerous if you're not careful.
Ausable must be 2-3 hrs above the Esopus. Up near Lake George. It is also a high gradient river. Can be dangerous if you're not careful.
jayL
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I'm one of the people lacking patience/skill, I think. To the riffles! :-D
I can and do fish the frog water when conditions are right. It was just unfortunate that this trip didn't yield those conditions, and the few risers I saw were tough to cover with an 11'6wt.
I am still waiting to hit the rising fish well up there. Until then, I'm stuck looking for the riffles. The few times I've stopped and pounded them, I've done well.
I can and do fish the frog water when conditions are right. It was just unfortunate that this trip didn't yield those conditions, and the few risers I saw were tough to cover with an 11'6wt.
I am still waiting to hit the rising fish well up there. Until then, I'm stuck looking for the riffles. The few times I've stopped and pounded them, I've done well.
sight_nymph_17109
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Alpa will confirm.... if we get the right weather conditions, there are epic olive hatches in the fall. #18-22 and it will get the attention of all fish in the river. The October Caddis #8 also gets their attention but won't hatch until the daylight is fading and goes well into dark.
To see the river in it's full glory, you'll have to wait until late April through first week or two of June. Float through one pool, no bugs or fish to be seen. Next pool is blizzard hatch and 500 fish rising. No rhyme or reason to the madness up there.
To see the river in it's full glory, you'll have to wait until late April through first week or two of June. Float through one pool, no bugs or fish to be seen. Next pool is blizzard hatch and 500 fish rising. No rhyme or reason to the madness up there.
jayL
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Yeah, I've got to try to hit it that way. My two trips up there have been timed poorly, and have resulted in 2 hours of fishing and 10 hours of rowing.
The first float did have some activity here and there, and I managed to stick a few small fish on top in the slow stuff.
The first float did have some activity here and there, and I managed to stick a few small fish on top in the slow stuff.
trowpa
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If i find risers in still water, I'm certainly not above fishing it. But when there are fish in moving water its plain easier to catch them..and more enjoyable for me as well.
The larger fish may be holding in the still water, but most fish move to current to feed. I'll always look to fish to actively feeding fish and most often this is in moving water as they look for the "conveyor belt" of food coming down stream. That doesn't happen without current.
But then again - perhaps the larger fish are chasing minnows in the dead water and I should be fishing streamers there. I certainly could be missing that opportunity by skipping the slow water, and maybe that's why i didn't catch a single fish bigger than 14inches this trip. Very possible.
Either way, I don't think i'll ever be one of those guys that just sits and waits in a dead still pool waiting for hours in hopes of a rise. In my opinion, you're on the water - why not catch some fish?
So yeah - i agree with JayL on this 100%. To the riffles 🙂
The larger fish may be holding in the still water, but most fish move to current to feed. I'll always look to fish to actively feeding fish and most often this is in moving water as they look for the "conveyor belt" of food coming down stream. That doesn't happen without current.
But then again - perhaps the larger fish are chasing minnows in the dead water and I should be fishing streamers there. I certainly could be missing that opportunity by skipping the slow water, and maybe that's why i didn't catch a single fish bigger than 14inches this trip. Very possible.
Either way, I don't think i'll ever be one of those guys that just sits and waits in a dead still pool waiting for hours in hopes of a rise. In my opinion, you're on the water - why not catch some fish?
So yeah - i agree with JayL on this 100%. To the riffles 🙂
sight_nymph_17109
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Jay writes: "Yeah, I've got to try to hit it that way. My two trips up there have been timed poorly, and have resulted in 2 hours of fishing and 10 hours of rowing."
The reason it seems like you rowed so much might go something like this. We (all) stop at a riff and get out. I make 15 casts down the far seam and then get back into the boat. I nymph the tail of the riff into the middle of the pool. I'm not rowing, just floating. 45-60 minutes later, you get back into your boat and now I'm a mile ahead. You frantically row trying to catch up. End result, we catch the same # of fish, you made 20x the casts, I'm relaxed and you're exhausted from rowing. I know which sounds more appealing to me.
As for hatches, they are sparse this time of year. Don't expect to see much. If you hit it twice a week between now and mid Oct, you'd hit one that would end up in the memory banks forever.
The reason it seems like you rowed so much might go something like this. We (all) stop at a riff and get out. I make 15 casts down the far seam and then get back into the boat. I nymph the tail of the riff into the middle of the pool. I'm not rowing, just floating. 45-60 minutes later, you get back into your boat and now I'm a mile ahead. You frantically row trying to catch up. End result, we catch the same # of fish, you made 20x the casts, I'm relaxed and you're exhausted from rowing. I know which sounds more appealing to me.
As for hatches, they are sparse this time of year. Don't expect to see much. If you hit it twice a week between now and mid Oct, you'd hit one that would end up in the memory banks forever.
trowpa
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Wow - how did you do that? Seriously, if i didn't row frantically i wouldn't move at all, let alone catch up. Literally NO current.
I think you had a trolling motor hidden somewhere in that scadden of yours....
(but yes we did hang at the riffles a bit longer (and caught a few more fish while there too)
jayL
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Sounds about right.
Until I get comfortable fishing from the boat, that's going to be my problem.
As it stands, here's how floating has worked for me:
Get in and try to nymph. Crap, I'm spinning in circles. Put rod down and try to right the ship. Damn, rod almost fell into the water. That was a close one. Oh crap! I'm gonna hit that rock. Ok, we're stable again. Time for another cast. Snagged instantly, and now I'm dragging bottom. Get out and drag the boat until it gets deep enough.
Then I row. For a mile. Rise, repeat. Throw in dodging wading fishermen every few minutes.
Like I said... I need to practice.
Until I get comfortable fishing from the boat, that's going to be my problem.
As it stands, here's how floating has worked for me:
Get in and try to nymph. Crap, I'm spinning in circles. Put rod down and try to right the ship. Damn, rod almost fell into the water. That was a close one. Oh crap! I'm gonna hit that rock. Ok, we're stable again. Time for another cast. Snagged instantly, and now I'm dragging bottom. Get out and drag the boat until it gets deep enough.
Then I row. For a mile. Rise, repeat. Throw in dodging wading fishermen every few minutes.
Like I said... I need to practice.
