Yellow breaches fly shop!?!?

I've been shopping at YBO since 1973 and have a lot of great memories spent hanging out in that place. Times have changed. Nonetheless, I was happy to find a well stocked shop and even more happy to be able to shop local again.
 
Glad to hear that Tony and team are taking a run at the new shop. I have shopped at the TCO stores over the years and always have had a great experience.

Bold move expanding with brick and mortar fly shops today. A certain amount of risk, but sure they have really looked into this and know they can respond to today's 2016 market demands to make a return.

I enjoyed Franklin's Utopian Fly Shop from 1966. Yes the world has changed. Today there are traditional fly shops, big box stores and a lot of good online options. These choices make it better for all consumers.

BTW TCO is not a sponsor.
 
flies tied by 9 year olds in bengladesh isn't going to affect the shop's bottom line. He'll drop his annual 75 bucks for 100 foreign flies from someone else online. (I'm assuming, as is the case with most fly shops the vast majority of the flies are of this variety).

Some shops (TCO included) have most of their flies from the mass marketed foreign tied variety. But a lot of local shops have locally tied flies. Usually a mix between tied by employees and tied by others in the area and sold to the shop. Certainly, if you go to the Feathered Hook, FFP, etc., the flies in one store look NOTHING like the ones in the neighboring store, nor anything you can buy online.

Disclaimer: I'm betting most shops have a mix of locally tied and mass produced stuff, really what we're talking about is whether that mix is 20/80 or 80/20.

A question for anyone in the business, do shops take in more money on flies or tying materials?

Many stores say they don't make anything really on flies. Others say it's the source of their business due to the high turnover. I'm strongly guessing the difference lies mostly in the above question. If you are turning around mass produced flies from overseas for $2.00 a pop, yes, you make money doing that. On the other hand, if you're paying employees to tie, or buying from a local custom tier, and you sell for $2.50 and streamers for $5.00 you may only make a few cents.

If you're not making money on flies, then their purpose is simply to get fishermen to come through the front door. Look, if I'm on a week long fishing trip, and thorax style sulphurs have been the ticket and I thus run out of them, I'm heading over to the local shop to get more. If I like their flies better than elsewhere, I will return, occasionally picking up tippet and shot and other necessities which they do turn a profit on. Eventually I'll have to add that pattern to my own tying portfolio, and since I liked that shop's version best, I'll ask the owner how they make theirs. He'll show me the exact materials they use and give me a tutorial, and I'll buy that stuff from him. Eventually repeated interactions like this, and I've grown some loyalty to this shop. Now when I want a new rod or pair of waders, that's my first stop.

i.e. having quality flies is a loyalty getter for bigger ticket items and repeat business.

The big profit items are rods, waders, clothes, packs, clothes, etc. And the reason the local shop has trouble competing with Cabelas is the price THEY pay for those items. i.e. a Sage will specify that it's XYZ model sell for $220 MSRP. Everywhere. No discounts. But it'll sell that rod to the shop for $150. Or if that shop buys 5, $140 each. If that shop buys 25, $130 each. So larger retailers are thus favored by getting merchandise cheaper and thus taking a higher margin on it.

TCO works on the same principle as Cabelas and Bass Pro in that regard. TCO may have 4 or 5 shops, but it's 1 customer. So it can make bulk orders (not to the degree of Cabelas, but still more than the shop with 1 location), and thus take a higher margin while selling for the same price.

The caveat is that different brands are different. All of them set retail prices. But some want to just sell more, and thus do more of the markdowns for large retailers. Others want to be viewed as the chosen brand of the small specialty shop, and the markdowns are less or non-existent. You can pretty much figure out what brands do what by what shops carry what.
 
Here is my strategy. If I'm buying a new rod I will go to a shop that carries it and try it out. If the shop has been decent to me in regards to previous purchases I will buy it from them. If they have ripped me off or been rude in returning calls, following through on promises or honoring warranties I will say "Thank you for letting me try the rod" and I will go online and find the same rod much cheaper. Works for me!
 
I would think how much flies impact a shops revenue would depend on the shop location. Close to destination streams I'd expect them to be a bigger part of the business plan. When I stop by an suburban/urban shop I rarely would buy a fly.

As to rod and reel prices, it appears most of the name brands set retail prices (if this was done with autos it would lead to a price fixing suit, but that's a story for another day). The lower tier sold by Walmart and other big box stores or the labeled lines sold by Cabelas etc are more market priced. You can seem to get a fly shop retailer to throw in some extras or offer a discount on a full package. But for the most part they seem to hold MSRP prices.

If I need to try out a rod before I purchase I'm more likely to go to a fly shop to cast it and then buy from them. If I know what I want I tend to buy online from an source that offers some other incentive such as loyalty points, loyalty point redemption, or free shipping. (I never cast at one place and price shop the same item elsewhere. If a seller invested time in my selection I always buy from them.)
 
I tie 99% of my flies so I don't focus on them very often when I'm in fly shops.

Two shops that stood out to me for having great flies are Catskill Flies in Roscoe, NY, and Oak Orchard Fly Shop (now closed, in Buffalo, NY).

The guy at Catskill flies (Dennis, I think) is a beast when it comes to tying.

Coincidentally, I once had an Orvis Gift Certificate that I used to buy a large quantity flies at a shop in Media. I used them for a trip or two, then bought a vice and tying materials and learned how to tie my own.
 
After reading this it makes me wonder if opening a fly shop is worth the effort....Might as well mark everything down 60% and then try to make a living.

Ron
 
It's like they say the way to make a million in a winery is to start with 2 million. a labor of love.
 
PA. Much of it you can't mark down. In order to be a Simms/Sage/Orvis/insert brand dealer, you sign a contract stating you won't sell under MSRP. That's the retail business today.

Then you get better prices from the supplier for larger orders, hence larger margins. And many offer discounts in the form of "loyalty points" or similar, as a separate line item.
 
Pcray1231 - Yes I get that but my point is that you can't give away things just to make people happy, especially if you are a new fly shop trying to get started and also make a living. I'm very familiar with this industry and doing research now on opening a fly shop in NE PA within the next few years. The business plan doesn't add up if the discounts are deep. There are things you can do as a shop owner to entice people to buy your higher end equipment but not give it away. I kind of wonder where the loyalty is in regards to supporting the local fly shops as versus internet sales where some only save a few pennies at least.

Ron
 
PALongbow wrote:
Pcray1231 - Yes I get that but my point is that you can't give away things just to make people happy, especially if you are a new fly shop trying to get started and also make a living. I'm very familiar with this industry and doing research now on opening a fly shop in NE PA within the next few years. The business plan doesn't add up if the discounts are deep. There are things you can do as a shop owner to entice people to buy your higher end equipment but not give it away. I kind of wonder where the loyalty is in regards to supporting the local fly shops as versus internet sales where some only save a few pennies at least.

Ron

The Fly-fishing business is very tough. There is not a lot of "loyalty" by many customers, as in most retail businesses. A good many customers will purchase at the cheapest price either online or in the big box type outdoor stores. Customers come in and buy flies and tippet at the shop, but quite a few will shop online or at the big boxers for tackle and bigger ticket items.

Cutting margins is not an option since many FFing manufacturers set retail prices, which actually allows the small guy to compete with the mega stores, at least in theory. There generally is not enough volume out there to cut margins too low since you will not likely make enough to cover your costs and expenses.

In addition, FFing is very seasonal, especially in PA. The seasonal cycle goes something like this: The winter starts off slow, but spring is the season in PA since most of the FFers are interested in trout. Business tails off in the summer, fall is only fair until you get into the holiday gift season.

Most successful/still in business fly shops run another business or sell other merchandise to pay the rent and utilities for 12 months a year. I've always thought an archery/hunting business combined with FFing would be perfect. Peak season for FFing is spring while the hunting/archery season is fall. When FFing interest begins to wind down, interest in hunting ramps up. In addition there may be an overlapping customer base for the two sports.

Good luck with your dream, Ron. When you open I'll be sure to travel up there to buy half dozen flies and a spool of tippet from you (Flouro..the expensive stuff!) :p
 
Yes agree another side business is wise. I plan on carrying traditional archery equipment and bows as well since the two go hand in hand and does not exist in the area. Also plan on having a place for folks to stay though out the year. Should be a well rounded business where people want to come and hang out.

BTW I'll make it worth while to buy 12 flies and two spools of floro tippet. :)

Ron
 
PALongbow wrote:
Yes agree another side business is wise. I plan on carrying traditional archery equipment and bows as well since the two go hand in hand and does not exist in the area. Also plan on having a place for folks to stay though out the year. Should be a well rounded business where people want to come and hang out.

BTW I'll make it worth while to buy 12 flies and two spools of floro tippet. :)

Ron

What area do you plan to set up shop in?

BTW having an area for small groups to meet is very useful. You can have a monthly fly tying club. many participants will patronize the shop for need misc items.
 
PALongbow wrote:
Yes agree another side business is wise. I plan on carrying traditional archery equipment and bows as well since the two go hand in hand and does not exist in the area. Also plan on having a place for folks to stay though out the year. Should be a well rounded business where people want to come and hang out.

BTW I'll make it worth while to buy 12 flies and two spools of floro tippet. :)

Ron

Having a archery shooting range as well as a casting area would be a big draw. Good luck!
 
Franklin - In Benton at some point down the road. I plan on doing all of what you mentioned. I think it will be good for the area. I'm also taking ideas from the local fly fisherman as to what they want to see and what makes sense to them.

Afishinado - Got that covered as well.

Ron
 
If you ask he owners of the smaller fly shops, you will find that they make their profit on terminal tackle. They may carry and occasionally sell rods, reels, waders. One shop owner says that the majority of regular fly fishers rarely by new rods on a consistent basis, however, they do purchase the necessary terminal tackle items.

I have and always will try to support local fly shops. Besides rarely do any us walk out of a fly shop without buying something whether we needed or not!
 
Seems to me that shops that also run guide trips seem to do okay. I know of one shop by me that is booked through the summer on float trips and most of the spring on wade fishing trips to mostly private leased water.

Would I ever book them for a trip? No. But we have a decent tourist industry and those are the people who do pay 350 to be rowed down a river.

I have nothing against that business model as it is at least nice to have a local place to buy tying materials and terminal tackle.

Another issue I see is are there enough people out there to support the fly fishing industry? Has the industry priced itself accordingly? I say this as someone who owns 15 or more fly rods and only paid full price for one. I mean how many 750 dollar fly rods can you sell in a season?

 
Dated but some industry data.

https://www.anglingtrade.com/2012/08/17/affta-releases-fly-fishing-industry-data/

interesting the amount sold at brick and mortar stores is higher than I would have guessed. Also the volume of flies.

BTW you could join AFFTA and get information that may help a business plan for $250.
 
I used to see people riding bicycles wearing regular street clothes. Now everyone is decked out in fancy skin tight leotards and helmets and they all have the names of "sponsors" printed on their outfits. Same with flyfishers these days....Gear and image obsessed
types are the target audience....I call them the NEW AMERICANS (borrowed from the author Jim Harrison). Fly shops now need hip guys behind the counter. (And they should have a BLOG and even have credentials tying them to some celebrity flyfishing author from the previous generation.) Every industry has been infested with these people....It's a strategy that apparently works.
 
foxtrapper1972 wrote:
I used to see people riding bicycles wearing regular street clothes. Now everyone is decked out in fancy skin tight leotards and helmets and they all have the names of "sponsors" printed on their outfits. Same with flyfishers these days....Gear and image obsessed
types are the target audience....I call them the NEW AMERICANS (borrowed from the author Jim Harrison). Fly shops now need hip guys behind the counter. (And they should have a BLOG and even have credentials tying them to some celebrity flyfishing author from the previous generation.) Every industry has been infested with these people....It's a strategy that apparently works.

Hey Fox you just gave me an idea. I'm going to get a custom embroidered fishing shirt with Franklin on it. I just have to decide if the purple cow stays or not.
 
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