Timber Rattlesnake v. Northern Copperhead

[FarmerDave]

wgmiller wrote:

Bingo. I think people commonly mistake a NWS for a copperhead. Without getting a close look at it, a cursory glance could easily cause one to mistake the two. Generally speaking, if it's swimming underwater, it's a NWS. If it's swimming at you aggressively, it's a NWS. That's not to say that copperheads don't do that as well, but as a rule of thumb, NWS can have quite a "pissy" disposition.

Watersnakes have no sense of humor.

 

[Mike]

For the most part I roll my eyes when I hear people speak of copperheads and then in the same breath describe habitats, geographical locations, abundances, and behaviors that are extremely unlikely. I have spent a lifetime (yes, a lifetime, as I enjoyed learning about and catching water snakes and milk snakes as a child) trying to educate individuals about these critters, which mostly involved trying to convince so-called outdoorsmen or timid landowners, who seemed to think they were saving the world or their family by killing snakes or having them removed, that the very snakes that they thought were copperheads were northern water snakes or eastern milk snakes. You can't believe how convinced most lay people are that they can properly identify a copperhead, at least the people who have come to me or with whom I have discussed snakes. It is sad, because usually a snake of one kind or another, non-poisonous or poisonous, ends up dead. I have yet to directly hear a copperhead story from anyone other than a biologist, trained naturalist, very educated citizen in all things natural, or someone who was accompanying these individuals, that actually turned out to be a copperhead.

 

[barrybarry]

Love to catch snakes. I've only ever saw 2 wild Copperheads in PA. None in York County. I've seen a at least a couple hundred PA Copperheads at the annual York County Copperhead hunt in Indian Steps Museum. It's not held anymore. I've attached an article from 1965. They stopped the hunt back in the 80's. They would throw them in a cistern behind the museum and then release them at the end of the day.

Someone mentioned earlier that they are often locally abundant. I agree. A co-worker from Perry County had both of his dogs bitten near his house. Vet bills and all.


https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19650804&id=OAcrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=W5gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4175,2421847&hl=en

 

[barrybarry]

Sorry about the bad link. Didn't realize it was the whole newspaper. Here's a screen shot.

 

[dc410]

If you happen to get the distinct smell a cucumber, heads up, you could be in fairly close proximity to a Northern Copperhead.

 

[outsider]

Mike, from a global view a I agree with you. A good snake is a dead snake? No. But I do believe the Northern Water Snake is the most often snaked misidentified as a copperhead.

When I was about 12 years old, we lived about 100 yards from the woods, and there was a home located about 50 yards from the woods, and a man had a young beagle in a pen. One day he was in the back yard and he heard the beagle "yip". There was a copperhead in the pen with the beagle. The beagle didn't make it, nor did the copperhead, which was the dispatched. It was my first encounter with a copperhead.

Education is the first step.

 

[slay12345]

I will have to dig up the photo, but I came across a copperhead in the southern end of Lancaster. Hiking along a trail the dog and I both hopped over a log... when it was my wife's turn, she called me back to identify a snake. It was a baby copperhead about 12" long with the distinct lime green tail obvious hourglass pattern and classic venomous head eyes and pits.

Found quite a few in the states south of PA while rock climbing in AL NC TN WV and VA. You tend to see them along those warm rocks and always look twice before placing a hand of foot near the crags.

 

[dc410]

One of the perks of my job is that I occasionally run into some really cool critters, like this one. I bumped into this beautifully marked black phase timber rattler while working on the Blue Mountain in northern Berks County earlier today. I love seeing them and the Blue Mountain has been good to me over the years with a decent number of rattler sightings.

 

[Chaz]

dc410 wrote:
If you happen to get the distinct smell a cucumber, heads up, you could be in fairly close proximity to a Northern Copperhead.

Or someones garden.
I've never seen a CuHead, but I've 2 rattlers now, both in Tioga County. Both Rattlers were in the last 2 years. I was struck by a harder snake once in my yard, I was surprised by that.

 

[RyanR]

PAgeologist wrote:
The copperhead I saw fishing one day came after me. I was on the opposite bank and didn't disturb it at all. I dropped a large rock on it and got out of there. Every story I hear about them is that they are fairly aggressive and tend not to flee.

Perhaps yoh did but I'd most likely bet, dollars to donuts, it was a Northern Watersnake. In fact, I'll bet that most people that have "seen a copperhead" around rivers & lakes while fishing more than likely saw a Northern Watersnake. THIS is definitely an aggressive snake and the one most often confused as a copperhead or even labeled a "water moccasin."

 

[PAgeologist]

I have tangled with water snakes before. That wasn't one.

Incidentally my boss stepped on a copperhead today. For some reason it didn't strike him. We found it laying in mine discharge water in Vintondale. I'll post a pic in a few minutes.

 

[PAgeologist]

Here is the copperhead we saw today. Hope the pic is clear enough.

 

[Midge22]

Ive never seen a Cuhead, id like it to stay that way personally. I have stepped over a rattler on kettle creek a few years ago. and im going to echo shane, NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE... there wasnt a track star on this planet that ran as fast i did in the seconds after i realized i was stepping over a coiled ratter (he was rattling but im partially deaf in my left ear, and didnt hear it).

I have ran into more than my fair share of NWS. i hate them damn things. i had one swim across a stream and procede to turn and swim right at me. the SOB got to within 2 feet of me before my buddy used his rod to hit it to get it get away. i froze, freaked out.

As a child, my grandfather brought our camper home from kettle to give it a proper cleaning, and it had a nest of rattlers under it. the adult took off, but i was 5 or 6 and decided it was a cool to start jumping on the babies. they were probably 8-12 inches long. my parents and grandparents freaked out and grabbed me and proceeded to kill all of them. This is all from what i hear from the fam as i was way way too young to remember that. well i know its the soul reason im so terrified of snakes and the fact that it was traumatic is probably why i cannot remember it.

 

[Fishidiot]

PAgeologist wrote:
Here is the copperhead we saw today. Hope the pic is clear enough.

That is a northern watersnake, not a copperhead.

 

[JackM]

I wouldn't know one way or another, but I know I'll be getting away from that if I see either one.

 

[PAgeologist]

Really? It clearly had the triangular head of a venomous snake. There were 4 of us there. All of us thought it was a copperhead. If it is a water snake I didn't realize they look that much alike.

 

[LetortAngler]

Yepper, that's a water snake. Not sure if it mentioned, but the copperheads have vertical pupils as with the rest of the viper family, compared to most non-venomous snakes in North America that have round eye pupils, however I would not recommend getting so close, best to keep your distance with any snake because even a non-venomous snake can give an infectious bite.

 

[dc410]

PAgeologist wrote:
Here is the copperhead we saw today. Hope the pic is clear enough.

It is either a northern water snake or possibly a hognose snake. The hognose snake has that kind of flattened triangular shaped head too, just to throw you off. Definitely not a Copperhead.

I'm leaning more toward the hognose snake because if he almost stepped on it and you were able to take photos in that range I'm thinking that a NWS would have had the clamps on you or your camera by that time!

 

[JackM]

I believe even non venomous snakes can flare their jowls when trying to ward off a potential predator. The eyes have it, which we cannot see.

 

[Fishidiot]

The body coloration and band configuration identify this guy as a water snake.

They do indeed look similar and, as others have posted throughout this thread, water snakes are often mistaken for copperheads. Both have wide variation in tone and color range, but the shape of the markings and background color are distinct. Coppers almost always have their markings set against an orange/rust background, whereas water snakes usually have a brown background as can be seen below.