Timber Rattlesnake v. Northern Copperhead

Yeah, the encounters where a snake is found streamside and then goes after a person certainly sounds like classic Northern Water Snake behavior. They are aggressive and territorial, and without a good look at the head, their pattern and coloration can be nearly identical to a Copperhead. From what I have understood of Copperheads, this aggressive behavior is not the norm for them. Still would like to see one to confirm, but I'm expecting a very Rattler like response.
 
So far I've seen two copperheads and no rattlers. Neither copperhead spotted while fishing. One was in Juniata county and the other in WV.

I highly doubt water snakes actually swim after people...think they are just trying to cross and you happen to be where they want to go.
 
Water snakes will be aggressive when they don't need to be, and quite deliberately approach people. As was said, territorial.
 
At Col. Denning park, that ranger will have no trouble showing people water snakes. That place is LOADED with them.
 
They can swim as close to me as they want as long as they stay outta my swim shorts. Gotta share the water.

For as much time as I've spent in various snake-infested ponds, lakes, creeks, and rivers, I've never witnessed a water snake act aggressively toward me or anyone I've been with. What would they do once they got to you? Bite a bunch of holes in your clothes? They can't get your fingers unless you try to grab them.

To get back on topic, I do always wear either my rubber hip boots or hiking boots in venomous snake country. Growing up I used to love finding garter snakes and keeping them for a week or two before letting them go. Got bit by quite a few of them, feels like a bad papercut. That said I have no desire to find out what a copperhead or rattler bite is like!
 
sarce, I did the same thing as you, much to my mother's dismay. And I was bitten more than once by a Garter snake. About 20 years ago I fished a Garter snake out of Kettle Creek in April. It wasn't dead, so I warmed it up in my hands until it came around. Then the little ingrate bit me.
 
Never have seen rattlers in the SW portion of the state, however I remember reading about a boyscout that did get bit last year by a rattler at Ramcat (Yough River). As much as I've fished there, only have seen water snakes. I do agree, many people mistake the water snake for copperheads, even the younger black snakes get mistaken alot for copperheads.
 
Outsider, that's funny! Same thing happened to me once, I decided to warm one up on my friend's driveway. The three of us stood around it so it got mad and eventually I put my hand too close. Probably deserved that one.

My mom wasn't a huge fan either but she didn't stop me, always freaked her out when I got bit though lol. The first couple times it was a huge deal but eventually her reaction became "you know where the band aids are"
 
All the "copperheads" here on Gettysburg National Military Park, especially Devil's Den, are nearly the stuff of stupid legend - almost downright nutty (think I've mentioned this in previous snake threads).

In all my years of guiding folks around the park, I've seen hundreds of snakes and not a single copperhead. In 1987 the NPS did capture and relocate one from Little Round Top but that's the only case I know of a copper on the park in recent years.
There are lots of water snakes around Devil's Den (and juvenile black snakes) and these are what folks are seeing.

Mistaken identity is uncommon with respect to timbers, but it just completely fouls up any discussion of copperheads.

I do agree that coppers are mainly nocturnal and this may explain why they're rarely seen by anglers.
 
Swattie87 wrote:
Yeah, the encounters where a snake is found streamside and then goes after a person certainly sounds like classic Northern Water Snake behavior. They are aggressive and territorial, and without a good look at the head, their pattern and coloration can be nearly identical to a Copperhead. From what I have understood of Copperheads, this aggressive behavior is not the norm for them. Still would like to see one to confirm, but I'm expecting a very Rattler like response.
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Bingo. I think people commonly mistake a NWS for a copperhead. Without getting a close look at it, a cursory glance could easily cause one to mistake the two. Generally speaking, if it's swimming underwater, it's a NWS. If it's swimming at you aggressively, it's a NWS. That's not to say that copperheads don't do that as well, but as a rule of thumb, NWS can have quite a "pissy" disposition.
 
While turkey hunting near Slate Run in the late 1980's I had a copper head bite me on the hand.It was the second one I saw that morning.I was reaching down to tie my boot lace and it moved fairly aggressively from about 2 ft away before I could avoid it.(I guess it didn't get the memo that it's not suppose to be aggressive)
 
AFISHN wrote:
While turkey hunting near Slate Run in the late 1980's I had a copper head bite me on the hand.It was the second one I saw that morning.I was reaching down to tie my boot lace and it moved fairly aggressively from about 2 ft away before I could avoid it.(I guess it didn't get the memo that it's not suppose to be aggressive)
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Wow, that sucks and would sure put an end to my Turkey hunting in that area. Just curious, how much did it hurt, what kind of treatment did you get, and are there any lasting effects? It seems that you lived :)
 
Whether a Rattler, Copperhead, or non-venomous snake, I would say that 2 feet away is within the comfort zone of the snake, and all bets are off. It sounds like you didn’t know it was there, and didn’t get that close on purpose, but I wouldn’t hold that against the snake, or claim that to be aggressive behavior.

My experience with Northern Waters is that their “comfort zone” is unreasonably large for human presence. They’ll become agitated when you are still many paces away from them, or even on the opposite side of the stream. 2 feet, no matter how you slice it is pretty close to the snake, and I think it’s reasonable for the snake to feel threatened at that point.

I would say 3-4 feet is probably the closest I’ve deliberately gotten to a Rattler (I’ve probably unknowingly been closer to some) and they didn’t become agitated…but I still didn’t want to get any closer.
 
What would they do once they got to you?
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Generally they stop 3-5 ft away and take a defensive, pissy stance. They "rattle" their tail in leaves, false strike, etc. But bigger ones are quite capable of inflicting a painful bite through, say, jeans.

I've been bitten by very small snakes when handling. The only snake bite I ever got without intentionally provoking a snake was a black racer. It was while fishing Hickory Run in the State Park. I didn't see it, stepped on it, felt an impact and a pinch (through breathable waders - neoprene gravel guard area), looked down, and saw my boot on the snake with it's mouth wrapped around my ankle. Jumped about 10 ft high and screamed. Then realized it wasn't a rattler.

It did not puncture the waders, but I got a decent pinch through them. A sizable water snake has a much bigger mouth than a black racer.
 
Luke.It hurt but not unbearably..what shocked me was the force of the bite...is was like getting a sharp slap on the hand from an adult.Drove myself to the hospital in Williamsport...took about an hour plus 45 minutes to get out of the woods.By that time my hand was severely swollen up to my forearm.I did not stay at the hospital overnight though and the recovery was quick

When I lived in South America in the 70s,I took a vacation trip to the highest waterfalls in the world:"Angel Falls" in Venezuela.I got stung on the foot by a scorpion at the camp we over nighted in.NOW that was incredible pain and I didn't have medical attention for 48 hours because of the crazy flight schedule.What a nightmare that was!!!
 
My future father in law got bit by a copperhead right along Lycoming creek above the DHALO stretch about 3 years ago. He was pulling plywood out of a woodpile about 100 yds from the creek and it hit him on the hand twice. He said he felt the first hit, didn't know what it was, pulled his hand back, looked down and then saw the head come out and hit him again.His hand started swelling and hurt pretty bad but luckily they were both dry bites and very little venom was injected. I remember he was on antibiotics for a while afterwards. I used to mistake water snakes, young rat snakes and milk snakes for copperheads when I was younger, until I started doing a little research on all of them to tell the difference. I can see the colors and markings being mistaken with some water snakes, but the fat head and body, elliptical eyes and pits make it impossible to mistake.
 
The Yough has a high population of Copperheads. I was smallie fishing below the railroad bridge (bike trail below the Kentuck Campground) and dropped my phone on the large rocks I was climbing over. I picked up my phone and noticed a snake about 3' from my hand. I pulled back onto the rock and did a little more investigating. There were a dozen copperheads in the nooks and crannies of this particular rock.

My buddy and I were leaving anyway, but I wanted nothing to do with that particular stretch after seeing that nest of snakes. We arrived at the parking lot and a fishing guide said they life flighted someone (a woman I believe) from that area a couple weeks before due to a bite. She ended up being fine.

There are not many reported bites in the park, so I don't let it spoil my excursions. I'm more concerned with ticks at this point, but that has been addressed many times over (for good reason) on these message boards.
 
Ive never seen a copperhead, but apparently there was a bite in carbon county:

http://www.wfmz.com/news/Regional-Poconos-Coal/Hiker-recovering-from-copperhead-snake-bite/26833140

saw a milk snake once, thought it could be a copperhead at first:

http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com/reptiles/snakes/eastern-milk-snake/eastern_milksnake.php
 
I've seen quite a few rattlesnakes in PA, but never a copperhead.

I went to college in Chapel Hill NC, where the number of copperheads is a bit shocking. In the fall when they start moving, each year five or six would get hit on my street in middle of town. I only rarely would spot them alive, so it was always pretty crazy to see how many would get hit on the roads as an indication of the number of copperheads that were actually around. They are super camouflaged and tend to sit totally motionless, so you'll walk right by them almost every time. My experience is that a copperhead isn't going to move unless you step on it. They are way more camouflaged that rattlers. A copperhead on dead leaves is about as close as any animal gets to being invisible.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/heterodon_pa/2436019526

My mother-in-law was bitten by a copperhead. She will find them routinely when raking leaves in her yard. If you don't do something to disturb them, you will probably will walk right past a hundred before you manage to spot one.
 
pete41 wrote:
match one of our pretty and pretty little corals against any of them.
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Snake on snake? sure. Snake on human, no way.

Corals have small fixed fangs that aren't even connected directly to the venom glands and pretty much have to chew on you to deliver the venom. The others have large hypodermic fangs connected directly to the venom sacks. Coral Snakes dangerous? Hell yea. Especially to children, and small skinny people like yourself. :p

If I lived down there, I'd be more wary of Water Moccasins which often do have attitudes similar to a regular water snake, or either of the two rattle snakes you got. That eastern Diamondback is awesome.

Python? Well, again, dangerous to small children and small skinny people like yourself, but someone 6'6" and 290 with a sharp knife?
It's gonna leave a mark, but an even bigger mark on the snake.
 
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