The Elitist Fly Fisherman....Reality or Myth?

[jdaddy]

Trout Unlimited is a cold water conservation organization and the only language that you will see in any mission statement is to "protect, restore and preserve cold water fisheries".

The president of our very active chapter is solely a spin fisherman. Many of our active members do not fish what so ever and are dedicated only to cold water conservation.

The vast majority of our meeting presentations are related to cold water conservation issues and have nothing to do with fishing, particularly fly fishing. Of the few fishing related presentations we had last year, one was solely dedicated to center pin fishing. Another was dedicated to Tenkara fishing. I head the Program Committee so I am very well aware of the last few years programs.

All projects that we have completed in the last 5 years are ATW and/or are privately posted. That's right, we are actively involved in stream protection and restoration of streams that are completely posted from fishing from anyone. I personally have logged many, many hours of grant prep, project planning, paperwork and associated labor to streams that I cannot even fish. Because, again, TU is a cold water conservation organization.

Your opinions of TU are completely skewed, biased and not factually based. Your position only serves to separate and divide, which accomplishes nothing.

 

[Mountainbrookie]

mike_richardson wrote:
5) quick to make judgements or stereotypes

Nothing personal but you are guilty of this on more than one occasion.

With all of the talk about TU being about fly fishing, which it isn't, how is that perception any different than T.A.P., a group that IS exclusively about bait fishermen? You condemn one and praise the other which makes no sense to me personally. Glass house..........stones.

 

[Mountainbrookie]

I'm also glad that TU has come into this discussion as often times the elitist fly fisherman perception and the disdain of TU go hand in hand from what I've seen.

 

[mike_richardson]

have more spin/ bait fishing related things to the organization.

 

[bikerfish]

well then YOU need to join it and start doing just that. but like stated, it's NOT a fishing club, it's a conservation organization.

 

[mike_richardson]

I know TU is a conservation agency. I was responding to a member who asked what i meant by a more open environment.

How did I condem TU. I applaud what they do for conservation, said that more than once. I only asked things that I did not know about TU. Just asked a simple question if TU does more on special regs areas than others. I got my answer and my perception was was. DID I say that TU only focuses on FFO sections? NO

I did not condem TU for having a fly fishing base, I just said that it may be more appealing if it was more encompassing/welcoming to spin fisherman, and adding to Pcrays comments.

Am i a fan of TU? No.
Are you a fan of TAP? No

TAP may be founded by bait fisherman but it is not for bait fisherman, it is for all fisherman and for Equal access for all anglers. Fishing is fishing bait, fly, spinners,

So as you said the point of TU is not a Fly fishing CLub, T.A.P. is not a baitfishing club either, It is a club that is set up to fight for equal access for all fisherman, not just bait fisherman, and protect and conserve waterways.

For the record, T.A.P. would oppose a special regulation, bait fishing only area as well.


The difference is that any other fisherman can fish any trout stream in the state/ bait fisherman can not. He would have to use other types of tackle that he may not want to use. Just as SAS, said about fly fishing, he has no desire to throw a spinner or use bait.

 

[SBecker]

Snicker

I am hungry.

 

[k-bob]

cant we all just get along ? 🙂 I am a hardcore dry-fly wild brook trout fisherman, but I might choose not to join TU, even though I generally agree with its conservation mission, because in the case of PA regs, I can live some of the class B stream stocking we have, and TU's position is a bit too strong for me. Of course there are other many conservation things you can do, for example the Eastern PA Coalition for Abandoned Mine Reclamation, several land preservation organizations., etc. are doing great things to restore and protect PA stream habitat right now!

 

[mike_richardson]

Lets just duke it out on the stream with these.

 

[pcray1231]

While I am a TU member, it gets a relatively tiny amount of my money compared to conservancies. I do agree with k-bob that conservancies give the best bang for the buck in terms of conservation. TU does a nice job of attacking specific threats. But those threats are a side effect of development in general. Whether you win or lose those battles, you're still slowly and deliberately losing the war.

Of course, like all TU chapters are not the same, not all conservancies are the same either. Some cater more to preserving historical buildings, some to the bird watching crowd, some to fishermen, some to hunters, etc. And nomatter what you're giving money to, you need to do your research first and make sure it's what you want your money to go to, and make the decision on your interests.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Let me be clear. My only point in bringing up TU was to raise a question. If we're going to get on bait and spinner guys for not being involved in conservation, are we examining ourselves to make sure we have an inviting environment for them to get involved?

In other words, are more fly fishermen involved with TU because they care more about cold water conservation than spinner and bait guys, or are fly fishermen more involved because that's who TU reaches out to? Kind of a chicken and egg question, I guess.

 

[Chaz]

If you are asking me, I'd say that's the perception, but like all perceptions it's not true. There are those in the community, I think mostly guys older then me, that think they're better in some way then the average angler. I don't believe it one minute.

I belong to a camp where on opening day they all fish either bait or spin fish, I'm usually the only person in camp that doesn't bring back any fish. That's ok because I'm always fishing flies and nearly always fishing wild trout streams. I don't care if there's fifty dead fish there, I know they'll be eaten.

 

[tomitrout]

In other words, are more fly fishermen involved with TU because they care more about cold water conservation than spinner and bait guys, or are fly fishermen more involved because that's who TU reaches out to? Kind of a chicken and egg question, I guess.

From my experience and observations....the usual 'evolution' of one who fishes for the trouts is that we start out w/ bait as kids, then move on to spinning gear, then some of us move on to flyfishing. It's an educational journey and I think that as one gets deeper into flyfishing they become more aware of the trout's environment and everything that affects it. You're continuously trying to learn more to become a better angler...figuring out hatches, figuring out the trout's behaviors, learning about what is good and not good for the streams. I think flyfishing by it's very nature instills a bit more awareness of what's happening to the streams as a whole and so the flyfishing community probably has a greater awareness and a greater willingness to get involved in conservation efforts. I'm not saying other anglers don't have the concern and aren't involved, but as a percentage of the angling community as a whole, flyfishers are more likely to get involved in taking action. And so TU will be stacked with more flyfishers and of course cater to their interests since they do make up the large majority of the membership.

 

[mike_richardson]

Or is TU targeting the members who on average spend the most money on fishing gear, thus putting more money in the club. 😉

 

[attackone]

mike_richardson wrote:
Or is TU targeting the members who on average spend the most money on fishing gear, thus putting more money in the club. 😉

no they arent, cause when i was spin fishing i had a butt load of money wrapped up into it.....i may should like a butt but maybe as a whole fly fishermen just cares more about cold water and therefore joins TU to try and help make a difference

 

[tomitrout]

Or is TU targeting the members who on average spend the most money on fishing gear, thus putting more money in the club. 😉

well, like I said earlier, if you think flyfishers spend money on fishing....look into outfitting a nice offshore sportfishing rig, or even a full on sparkly bassboat and all of the upkeep, add in towing to & from and the operating costs. My little collection of decent enough cane rods pales in comparison....

TU is made of mostly flyfishers because we're the ones who are most willing to put in the time and make the effort. TU caters to anyone who cares about cold water conservation, it just so happens that by and large the flyfishing community as a whole is the group most interested in these pursuits. What really peaves me is that the local B.A.S.S. chapter doesn't welcome me with open arms, must be because of my tackle choice....

 

[pcray1231]

Tom, I agree with your reasons. And for some of those reasons, it should not surprise anyone that a fly fishermen is MORE likely to get involved than a spin or bait guy. It's not praise or a cut on either group. It's just how it shakes out. Both groups have a number of good, knowledgable guys who are likely to get involved. Both have a few selfish a-holes who refuse to get involved even though they know better. And both have those who are too inexperienced to understand, or lack the time/money to help. The overrepresentation of fly fishermen and under-representation of spin/bait fishermen in conservation is expected due to only the relative abundance of the last category, not the former two.

But, that ignores the fact that spin/bait fishermen still outnumber fly fishermen 10 to 1. So even if spin/bait fishermen should be underrepresented compared to their overall abundance, they should still be pretty well represented. And they are. When you look at conservancies, watershed associations, and the like, they are well represented and they do indeed get into conservation efforts. Just not via TU.

The fact that TU guys are saying, "oh, we have a spin fisher in our chapter", is proof enough. They should be a sizable % of the chapter, if not the majority. They're out there. They do care. They do get involved. It's just that, for whatever reason, TU isn't their chosen path. And it absolutely does stem from the impression that TU is a fly fishing club. I'm not saying the impression is true, I'm just saying it exists. And both sides give it lip service. TU claims to welcome non-fly fishermen. Non-fly fishermen claim not to oppose TU. And they aren't lies. But neither side goes to much effort to bridge the gap.

 

[mike_richardson]

That was only a joke about targeting flyfisherman. 🙂

Also im digging my new avatar

 

[vealboy]

I'm a worm fisherman mainly,I also FF,always practice C&R.And yes you can catch trout on worms,hook them cleanly and release them unharmed,I've been doing it for 35 years now.My problem is when I fish places like Valley Cr,my home water,the amount of crap I get from FFers is unreal.I love this stream and all the streams I fish.But yet I keep hearing the same old song,you can't catch trout on bait without harming them.Unless you've tried it or fished with someone who does how do you know?When you look down on me without knowing how I fish that does make you a snob.A few weeks ago I had a FFer tell me I was poaching because I was fishing Valley with worms.How is this poaching?I don't think there are many people that have been fishing Valley as long as I have and I won't fish there during warm weather anymore,I get tired of being harassed.I extend an invitation to anyone on this board to spend a day on the water with me and see how I do it.I'll be fishing Valley this sunday.According to the PSU trout demand study,done for the PFBC,61% of trout fisherman use bait and of those,60% practice C&R or limited harvest.We all need to come together as fishermen to protect our cold water resources.There will always be the meat hunter crowd,thats what the PFBC promotes with opening day and stocking.I don't think all FFers are snobs,but there are plenty out there.

 

[JasonS]

Vealboy, do you ever fish in the park?