The Elitist Fly Fisherman....Reality or Myth?

[troutbert]

RCFetter wrote:
The term "elitist" does not have a negative connotation to me.

It does for the original poster. And I think in nearly all cases, the word "elitist" is meant to have a negative connotation.

The word "elite," however, means someone who really excels in something. For example, the term "elite athlete" means someone who is really among the best. It refers to their accomplishments and abilities.

And the term "elitist" refers to a type of attitude of snobbery, looking down on other people, etc.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I was thinking about that. You see conservation groups like TU and think, "how many spin fishermen get involved with cold water conservation like this?"

HOWEVER, I have to ask, is an organization like TU really welcoming to anyone other than flyfishermen? So, is it an issue of they don't care and don't want to be involved, or is it an issue of an organization like TU not making them feel welcome? I realize this could be chapter by chapter, its just something I was thinking about.

 

[attackone]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
I was thinking about that. You see conservation groups like TU and think, "how many spin fishermen get involved with cold water conservation like this?"

HOWEVER, I have to ask, is an organization like TU really welcoming to anyone other than flyfishermen? So, is it an issue of they don't care and don't want to be involved, or is it an issue of an organization like TU not making them feel welcome? I realize this could be chapter by chapter, its just something I was thinking about.

anyone can join TU it doesnt matter what you fish with...yea the cater to fly fishing with there classing but really u cant teach a power bait tying class

 

[attackone]

If you have a passion for the coldwater fisheries of western Pennsylvania, then join us. We always could use an equipment operator, a computer whiz, a person good with a shovel, someone who like teaching kids about conservation and a whole host of other activities we are involved with. Whether you fly fish, spin fish, or bait fish, if you have a passion for trout and their habitat, please take a moment to fill out the application, come to a meeting or a work day. Visit us when we do demos and just talk with our members, you’ll see we possess a passion for trout, coldwater and generally having a good time conserving where we fish in western Pennsylvania.

right from the Mountain laurel Chapter web site

 

[mike_richardson]

I will say this. When it comes to my own personal fishing, I'm a snob. If I can't catch it on a fly rod, I don't want to catch it. I'm 100% FFing only.

"Now, that's for me. I enjoy it. I don't enjoy spin fishing. Simple as that. Bait has no appeal either. I'll fish with anyone anywhere, they can use whatever tackle they want, I got no issues with that (Swattie can testify, as this past weekend we fished w/ one of his spin buddies) AT ALL. For myself though, its FF or nothin'."

Sas,
With this mindset that you have, would you be ticked if the state set up Bait fishing only areas that you could not fish.

I think this is what T.A.P. may be defending. They don't want to use anything other than bait but don't feel that they should be excluded from fishing areas because they don't want to pick up a fly rod or use a spinner. Me personally I do not want to put on a rapala or spinner and use spin equipment.



T.A.P. is very involved in conservation. We are active members os SCRIP and many other organizations. We have been active with the clean up of trout run in the town of Portage, and soon approx. 2 miles of stream will be cleaned up. We are doing what we can to help get rid of the AMD that is wiping out the little Conemaugh River From Portage and down stream.

So at least we are 1 group that is involved in stream clean ups and conservation minded efforts.

 

[mike_richardson]

Just curious,

What percentage of waters that are cleaned up by TU are ATW?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I know NOTHING about T.A.P., never even heard of it til this thread. I would share Pcray and FD's concerns, but it seems that you're willing to address them, which is good.

I think that if a section of a stream is stocked by state money, then it should be open to all those who have paid the state for the right to fish.

That being said, in answer to your question, I would say "it depends". Oddly enough, and this seems to contradict what I just said, if the section was a wild fishery, I'd be upset. If it was stocked, then no. I wouldn't be upset. Go figure...since I just said I think all stocked fisheries (stocked by the state, not private organizations), should be open to the public!

 

[tomitrout]

With this mindset that you have, would you be ticked if the state set up Bait fishing only areas that you could not fish.

Wouldn't bother me one bit since the banks would probably be all littered with styrofoam worm boxes, power bait jars, salted minnow wraps and empty cigarette packs....why would I wanna fish in that environment???

😛

 

[mike_richardson]

Slippery slope either way.

Done talking about T.A.P. if anyone has questions shoot me a pm. I can address the president or if you would like his address, to send him a letter, let me know. I don't like to talk about an organization that is mainly about bait fishing on a fly fishing forum unless it is brought up. I don't want to take away from the point of this thread.

Attack one,

I did not mean to imply that there are more elitist bait fisherman than fly fisherman. i will say that there are however extremes on both ends. Maybe my perception of elitist is different than most on here. We see this in archery hunting as well.

IMO my person though of an elitist, is some one who does the following:
1) looks down on people who don't do something the same way they do
2)they think that their way should be the only way
3) reluctant to help or share any information streamside
4) reluctant to see any valid point from the opposition
5) quick to make judgements or stereotypes
6) Is a member of TU

you know that number 6 was just an all out joke.

 

[attackone]

u asked about how much ATW is cleaned up for TU, im guessing you mean not special reg waters either, i know the that Gap on Yellow Creek is, there is also another section that there is a clean up on this sunday on yellow creek...im pretty sure bobs creek and there are a few other ones but i cant remember there names because i dont fish them...but to answer you question a good bit does

 

[mike_richardson]

Thanks, just wondering. I was wondering if its efforts were focused more on FFO or not. I would like to try and get together a clean up for Sproul or The Frankstown Branch of the Juniata i belive is its real name. This is in Claysburg. Stream is a dump but would be a lot nice if the fish that i kept for my uncle didn't have drywall ingested or see all of the junk everywhere.

 

[ebroesicke]

I am a TU elitist!! 😉

The TU thing is interesting. As a 10 yr+ member, one of my pet peeves is that TU is viewed as "fly fishing club", which it shouldn't be. I know that much of this is due to marketing by the national organization, and the demographics of the membership. The flip side is that they are catering to their membership, which is mostly fly fishermen. TU is open to all people who would take an interest in coldwater conservation, but it certainly caters to the fisherman. I know most all chapters run programs that are for the most part free ( some fly tying classes have a fee) and open to the public, so there is no need to join to check it out. I am not trying to make any judgements here, just a statement. I mostly fly fish trout wise, 'cause that's my thing, but I will dunk bait opening day or with my kids no problem.

 

[pcray1231]

That's always been a pet peeve of mine with TU as well. It's open to bait and spin fishermen, they purport to welcome those types, and their mission certainly transcends tackle choice decisions. But it has a bit of a FF club feel. All the presentations and so forth are FF based. The gifts are fly rods and reels or FF related. 95% of the people are flyfishermen and talk fly fishing at all meetings. It just seems unwelcoming to spin and bait fishermen.

Someone said you can teach a FF class but not a powerbait class. I call B.S. on that. Well, powerbait was an intentional swipe, it's like the junk fly category of the bait fishing world. But you certainly can teach spinner making, minnow rigging, color preferences, technique, etc as it relates to spin or bait fishing. And stream ecosystems, geology of waterways, reading water, ways to find streams, etc. are not specific to tackle choice. Instead of a fly rod as a gift, offer a top of the line Loomis spinning rod or something as an alternative.

Some of it is just reinforcement. The members are flyfishermen, they want to see fly fishing stuff, so they offer fly fishing stuff and talk fly fishing. And it just reinforces that it's a fly fishing club. TU needs to make a concerted effort to attract the spin/bait crowd, rather than just give it lip service and say "we're open to all". Their potential membership pool would quadruple at least. It's a two way street, though. The bait and spin guys need to join up and help push for that change.

But Mike, yeah, the message the public gets about TAP isn't that it's opposed to tackle restrictions, it's that it's opposed to HARVEST restrictions. And a lot of it has to do with that website, which outright attacks C&R, Trophy Trout, and the like, despite the fact that these regs can be, and often are, all-tackle. Most dont' associate them with tackle restrictions. They sometimes are accompanied by tackle restrictions, but they are two separate and only marginally related questions. Make it clear you oppose TACKLE restrictions and support harvest restrictions. Instead of opposing current special reg zones, lobby for them to be switched to all-tackle. And propose new all-tackle special reg areas.

You'll still find some honest opposition, but I think the group would be less derided and more respected if you spelled this out more clearly. And I think there's a sizable group that would be at least sympathetic to such a position, but is not sympathetic to open harvest on some of our blue-ribbon waters.

 

[LongWader]

There are two fly shops in my area and they could not be more different. One is run by avid fly fisherman who guide and the atmosphere in that shop is collaborative, friendly, sharing, helpful and non-judgmental.The shop promotes fly fishing, but not to the exclusion of everything else. The other is an Orivis shop where they dry fly guys look down on the wet fly guys and both groups would not even consider associating with anyone who is not exlusively into fly fishing. The Orvis guys talk about their trips to Patagonia, New Zeeland, and Alaska in whispered tones like the local fisheries don't exist. If they see someone they don't know or approve of they smirk and leave the room. Are they eliteist? I don't know, but from my experience the guys is the first shop and their clients can generally outfish any of the Orvis crowd. The Orvis crowd would say it is because the other guys are opportunists who use any type of fly tackle and they; the orvis guys, would rather catch a fish on a dry fly, or their particular way of fly fishing, even if it means going fishless. The first shop promotes fly fishing and is inclusive and the second shop encourages clanish secretive sects.
I guess it all depends on what floats your boat, but with all the challenges fisherman face these days I would think that being inclusive and encouraging others to enjoy our sport would be in our best interest. It is hard to get a young person who loves fast paced video games interested in a sport like fishing if the don't enjoy some level of initial success. I guess it depends on the given chapter of TU and their members as to how they handle themselves. In my area they are mostly part of the Orvis crowd. Once a year they do a fund raising and membership drive, but after the meeting if you are a newbie you do not exist. While they lament their lack of support and low membership enrollment it would seem like that is exactly what they want. While they bring their wives to the annual event their are no women who are members. It seems like a good ole boy club to me. The other shop has lots of active women fly fishers and lots of father/mother-son and daughter fishers. One promotes the sport and the other promotes exclusivity.

 

[ebroesicke]

agreed about TU. it is self reinforcement, and I can see where that would be unwelcoming to a dedicated bait or spin guy. It is unfortunate as everyone can benefit from and add value to improving our streams.

 

[attackone]

then its simple, start filling TU email box with suggestions about how to make it more bait/spin fish friendly

 

[mike_richardson]

I would consider joining if it would be a more "open" environment. I will agree with attack one that in order to do demonstartions you need members who are in that field to be able to do these demonstrations.

If some of the guys feel "out of the loop" and do not want to join because of this then it only adds to the dilema.

But from what I have heard this is not a "spin/flyfishing/lure fishing club" it is not a fishing club at all. It is a conservation agency correct.

 

[attackone]

what do u mean if they would be more open to environment

 

[bikerfish]

TU is not a flyfishing club, it IS a conservation organization, that just happens to have mostly fly fishers as it's members.
don't know what you want out of it, it's pretty simple, they work to conserve streams, if you like that type of thing, join, if not, then don't.
you are not going to get a handwritten invitation. it's not a social club, it's not about making friends and being a friendly environment, it's about saving what's left of our coldwater fisheries.
they have members that don't even fish, but they care about the streams and the life they contain, so they join and help.

 

[ebroesicke]

you guys are right it is a conservation group, but it is dominated by fly fishermen, so it gives the impression of a "fly fishing club". The main goal of TU is to improve coldwater habitat. When it comes to presentations, in order to get attendance, you have to cater to what the majority wants, and for us that is fly fishing topics.