Snakehead update: The Giving Pond, DCNR lake, upper Bucks Co

[Mike]

PaDEP, during some routine work this week, collected an adult Northern Snakehead in the subject lake. This was the first report for this lake and approximates the most upstream area of the Delaware River where they have been verified as being present. Under certain river flows, it is highly probable that fish from the river can enter the lake. Add that to at least two having been caught by an angler or photographed in the mouth of a water snake this past summer in Tohickon Ck near Point Pleasant and near Ralph Stover S P.

 

[outsider]

Mike, please clarify something for me. Lets say I was fishing in the DH section of the Tully and I caught a flathead catfish or a snakehead. My first reaction would be to subdue then dispatch, as they are both invasive species. What does the law say?

 

[Fredrick]

outsider wrote:
Mike, please clarify something for me. Lets say I was fishing in the DH section of the Tully and I caught a flathead catfish or a snakehead. My first reaction would be to subdue then dispatch, as they are both invasive species. What does the law say?

Chances are that brown or rainbow trout you were fishing for is invasive also since either is native to PA .So make sure you dispatch them according ,Just my two cents .

 

[JerryC]

It looks like the snakehead is still on the kill on sight list. How it was introduced is speculation. Either they were released by folks who keep exotic fish in tanks or stocked by entrepreneurs who cater to the Asian population since it is a popular food fish in the areas it's native to. The flathead is a native fish in Western PA(Ohio River drainage) and invasive in other parts. It looks like the state is responsible for the fish being introduced to the rivers and lakes of eastern PA, because of contaminated stockings of channel catfish fry, and it is being managed the same way channel catfish are. So if you catch a snakehead kill it and throw it in the bushes for a raccoon or take it home for dinner. Flatheads you would treat as you would any other catfish. Take it home for dinner or release it.

 

[SteveG]

If the Susky weren't as nasty near Harrisburg, I'd prob be targeting flatheads for dinner. I've heard an opinion that they are to blame for the lesser numbers of panfish.

 

[Fredrick]

JerryC wrote:
It looks like the snakehead is still on the kill on sight list. How it was introduced is speculation. Either they were released by folks who keep exotic fish in tanks or stocked by entrepreneurs who cater to the Asian population since it is a popular food fish in the areas it's native to. The flathead is a native fish in Western PA(Ohio River drainage) and invasive in other parts. It looks like the state is responsible for the fish being introduced to the rivers and lakes of eastern PA, because of contaminated stockings of channel catfish fry, and it is being managed the same way channel catfish are. So if you catch a snakehead kill it and throw it in the bushes for a raccoon or take it home for dinner. Flatheads you would treat as you would any other catfish. Take it home for dinner or release it.

Jerry there is no law stating that you have to kill snakeheads or any other fish. The state recommends you creel the fish , but the law is that you must release the snakehead to the water in which you caught it and you cannot posses a snakehead alive . I copied and pasted this from the PAFBC website . Jerry I hope you are not encouraging anyone to throw any kind fish up on the bank instead of eating it .

PA REGULATIONS
•It is unlawful for a person to sell, purchase, offer for sale or barter live snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
•It is unlawful to possess live snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
•It is unlawful to introduce or import live snakehead species into Pennsylvania waters.
•Transportation of live snakehead species in or through Pennsylvania is prohibited.

IF YOU CATCH ONE

Anglers catching snakeheads should dispose of them properly. Anglers suspecting they have caught a snakehead are encouraged to NOT release it, and report it to the Commission at 610-847-2442

 

[poopdeck]

Where the heck did you read you must release the snakehead in the water you caught it or you just creel it?

Dispose of it properly also encompasses throwing it on the bank for the raccoons. Ive never caught one but if I do I'm killing it. I will eat it but I would not loss sleep if someone wanted to feed the raccoons with them. Better that than an entire river choked full of them eating all the striper, herring and shad fry as well as the bass walleye and whatever else we like to fish for.

I know you like catching snakeheads. I happen to like to fish for a little bit of everything. I too would like to fish for snakeheadbut one thing is certain, the snakehead population has to be controlled By killing them.

 

[sarce]

They've been in the Potomac since the early 2000's and the shad runs are stronger than ever right now. Everything already eats shad fry, one more predator isn't doing anything. The fears of them wreaking havoc on the ecosystem down here have not come to pass. If anything they compete with largemouths, which are an introduced and overrated species anyway. But bass have learned that they can eat the young snakeheads, so even those two balance out pretty well.

 

[outsider]

Terminate with extreme prejudice.

 

[poopdeck]

I only know what the experts say. They say their populations have to be controlled by killing them. No one is talking about wiping them off the planet just controlling their numbers. I'm also aware that those who like fishing for snakeheads release them because they want more and bigger snakeheads. Seems to me everybody is in agreement about what snakeheads can do to a fishery they just word it differently.

I'm also pretty sure the snakeheads on the potamic are kept in check with similar regulations. Everything I read on potamic snakeheads say just that.

 

[afishinado]

poopdeck wrote:
Where the heck did you read you must release the snakehead in the water you caught it or you just creel it?

Dispose of it properly also encompasses throwing it on the bank for the raccoons. Ive never caught one but if I do I'm killing it. I will eat it but I would not loss sleep if someone wanted to feed the raccoons with them. Better that than an entire river choked full of them eating all the striper, herring and shad fry as well as the bass walleye and whatever else we like to fish for.

I know you like catching snakeheads. I happen to like to fish for a little bit of everything. I too would like to fish for snakeheadbut one thing is certain, the snakehead population has to be controlled By killing them.

Wack it over the head first.....

From linked article about snakeheads:

Do not release the fish or throw it up on the bank (it could wriggle
back into the water). Remember, this fish is an airbreather and can live a long time out of water.

• Kill the fish by freezing it or putting it on ice for an extended length of time.

• Photograph the fish if you have access to a camera so the species of snakehead fish can be positively identified.

• Contact your nearest fish and game agency or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (703-358-2148) as soon as possible. Keeping data on the size, number, and location of where snakeheads are caught or seen is vital to controlling this invasive fish.


Link to source: https://www.fws.gov/fisheries/ans/pdf_files/snakeheads.pdf

 

[Fredrick]

poopdeck wrote:
Where the heck did you read you must release the snakehead in the water you caught it or you just creel it?

Dispose of it properly also encompasses throwing it on the bank for the raccoons. Ive never caught one but if I do I'm killing it. I will eat it but I would not loss sleep if someone wanted to feed the raccoons with them. Better that than an entire river choked full of them eating all the striper, herring and shad fry as well as the bass walleye and whatever else we like to fish for.

I know you like catching snakeheads. I happen to like to fish for a little bit of everything. I too would like to fish for snakehead but one thing is certain, the snakehead population has to be controlled By killing them.

Well if you can't transport the fish to another body of water or alive what is your other option ? See the state wrote it like this because it leaves allot for interpretation The bottom line is like I said release it to where you caught it or creel the fish .

You can be knuckleheads about it or accept that they are here and not going anywhere. But don't be a hypocrite brown trout have done far more damage to the native fish populations in this country then snakeheads ever will . But they also took hold in places native fish couldn't and this case for allot of the areas snakeheads are thriving.


John Odenkirk is the District Field Biologist for the Virginia Department of Game and Fish. He is renowned as the foremost authority on the northern snakehead and its impact on the Virginia portion of the Potomac River. I suggest you search his name on youtube and listen to what he has to say

 

[poopdeck]

Frederick, I appreciate your passion for snakehead fishing and I enjoy your posts on your catches. Like you, others have similar passion for bass, the dreaded brown trout, and other species. as I said, I enjoy fishing for everything and not any one species. I really don't think the term knuckleheads should be placed upon those who enjoy other species. Nobody is saying they aren't here to stay.

I've seen that video before. Perhaps you should listen to what the biologist actually says and not what the interviewer says and wants you to hear. You have to admit the interview has a pretty one sided agenda that is similar to yours.

First, he states this is only the 4th year they have been collecting data on snakeheads. This means he only has 3 years of data which is pretty much worthless. I really liked the part where they have no numbers on adult bass so they can do no comparisons on the impact of the snakehead.

He attributes last years low bass count to a "blip." He attributes the cause of this blip to a non species related fish kill and a poor young of year class. He says this attributed to the higher snakehead count. Huh?? The fish kill also killed snakeheads so the fish kill is a wash. No reason known for the Poor YOY class. This leaves it open that the snakehead could be a factor but it completely rules out the snakehead as a non factor. I also found it amusing that this expert can't tell the difference between a male or female and they can only guess at the age of a snakehead. This highlights the fact that there are no experts on snakeheads because they simply don't have the data to assist them.

The state of Virginia also has documented the wide and fast progression of the snakehead. Virginia's position is anglers are strongly encouraged to kill any snakeheads caught. They throw in that you can eat them but killing them, not eating them, is what is strongly encouraged.

Again, it's the only way to control the snakehead. Others like to fish for other species. Why force your passion for snakeheads over someone else's passion for bass. The snakehead is here to stay and there's no reason why bass and trout and whatever can't stay as well. Unquestionably every expert is saying the snakehead population has to be aggressively kept in check. They will still thrive but so will every other species.

 

[moon1284]

Alewifes, Zebra mussels, and gobies were going to destroy the great lakes. Now there are worries the alewife population is not large enough to support the Pacific salmon that were introduced in the 60s to control the alewife. After the invasion of zebra mussels, the lakes became much more clear and no fish population plummeted. Gobies were going to be another problem, now bass fisherman use lures to imitate gobies.

Meanwhile, atlantic salmon and blue pike were extripated from lake Ontario before any invasive species were introduced (due to dams and pollution respectively). Killing snakehead is going to do next to nothing to control the population, but if it feels good to throw them on the shore then by all means do it. Just make sure you don't throw any carp on shore, they are now a revered game fish...

I wonder how many bowfin are being killed because people can't differentiate them from a snakehead.

 

[Swattie87]

The only true gentlemanly sporting fish on the fly in PA waters are the Brook Trout and Redbreast Sunfish. Oh yeah, Fallfish are ok too. Everything else is for the cretins.

Extra Grey Poupon on my hot pastrami please.

 

[streamerguy]

JerryC wrote:
So if you catch a snakehead kill it and throw it in the bushes for a raccoon

poopdeck wrote:
Dispose of it properly also encompasses throwing it on the bank for the raccoons.

It's illegal to throw fish in the bushes or on the bank. Officers can and will ticket you for it. They definitely do in western PA where bowfin getting thrown on the bank is an issue(more on this below).

"(g) It is unlawful to discard any fish carcass or parts thereof into the waters of this Commonwealth or upon any public or private lands contiguous to the waters unless one of the following conditions apply:

(1) On lands with the permission of the landowner.

(2) Where fish are properly disposed into suitable garbage or refuse collection systems or at officially recognized fish cleaning stations."

https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter63/s63.15.html

Fredrick wrote:
Well if you can't transport the fish to another body of water or alive what is your other option ?

Killing it, then putting it on a stringer or in a cooler to take home would be two other options, no?

moon1284 wrote:
I wonder how many bowfin are being killed because people can't differentiate them from a snakehead.

Likely a bunch, unfortunately. This is a problem in the western part of the state, and in other states......even where snakeheads do not exist. Sure, some people confuse them with snakeheads, but most get killed because they think bowfin are just as bad for our waters. And other people view them as a nuisance fish(which is makes absolutely zero sense, but that's another topic...).

 

[streamerguy]

It's been touched on in some of the previous posts, but here's a list of some of the non-native fish in the Delaware system:

brown trout
rainbow trout
smallmouth bass
laregemouth bass
walleye
channel catfish
flathead catfish
rock bass
bluegill
crappie
northern pike
musky
northern snakehead
...and others

http://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/PennsylvaniaFishes/GalleryPennsylvaniaFishes/Documents/GalleryofPaFishes-Chapter2-SpeciesbyWatersheds.pdf

I realize that snakeheads are a new introduction, but if it has gotten to the point where it is impossible to control their population, then why have a "kill em all" attitude towards them and not any of those other non-native fish??

Now if it hasn't gotten to that point, and it's still realistic to control their pop, then yeah, let's do whatever we can.

 

[poopdeck]

moon1284 wrote:
Alewifes, Zebra mussels, and gobies were going to destroy the great lakes. Now there are worries the alewife population is not large enough to support the Pacific salmon that were introduced in the 60s to control the alewife. After the invasion of zebra mussels, the lakes became much more clear and no fish population plummeted. Gobies were going to be another problem, now bass fisherman use lures to imitate gobies.

Meanwhile, atlantic salmon and blue pike were extripated from lake Ontario before any invasive species were introduced (due to dams and pollution respectively). Killing snakehead is going to do next to nothing to control the population, but if it feels good to throw them on the shore then by all means do it. Just make sure you don't throw any carp on shore, they are now a revered game fish...

I wonder how many bowfin are being killed because people can't differentiate them from a snakehead.

Actually they are crediting the aggressive killing of the snakeheads with keeping them in somewhat check. Despite this aggressive removal of the snakeheads they are still here and as previously stated, they are here to stay. They are not going anywhere but if left unchecked other species may. It's really that simple.

While zebra mussels have made the Great Lakes water clarity clearer they have "unleashed ecological havoc" and are "sucking the life out of Lake Michigan and lake huron" according to the experts. That doesn't sound like a plus to me.

 

[afishinado]

Some fish are "introduced" species into a waterway, which means purposely stocked to enhance fishing or serve some biological function in the ecosystem; while other species are said to be "invasive" because they were introduced illegally or by accident, and are believed to be harmful to the ecosystem.

No one truly knows the impact of snakeheads in our waterways. First because they haven't been here that long, and second because each river, stream and lake are different and their impact on each may vary.

I agree, Snakeheads are here to stay and only time will tell whether they have an impact on certain streams, rivers or lakes. They have no real natural predators....except us, so the choice to kill or release is up to you.

Like I posted above, snakeheads can breath air and "walk" on land so throwing them on the bank is not a good idea for those reasons as well as being looked upon as illegal dumping or littering.

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/invasive-table-fare-snakehead-recipes/

 

[streamerguy]

afishinado wrote:
Some fish are "introduced" species into a waterway, which means purposely stocked to enhance fishing or serve some biological function in the ecosystem; while other species are said to be "invasive" because they were introduced illegally or by accident, and are believed to be harmful to the ecosystem.

Oh absolutely some were purposely introduced, but at that point it's just picking and choosing favorites(collectively as fishermen and fish & wildlife agencies)."Let's introduce this popular non-native fish to fish for, and not this, and screw the natives....". We all know examples of fish that were purposely stocked for sport that have had negative impacts on native fisheries, with the aid of pollution and other stuff in many cases too, of course.

But like you said, we don't really know how much the snakeheads will have an impact. Best to attempt to control their numbers, but at the same time we can't forget about fish like muskies or bass, or brown trout since biologically they have no business being there either, even if introduced on purpose. Obviously it's way too late to start any eradication effort, and probably few people would want to(I love fishing for those non-natives too). We freak out if we catch an "invasive" species, but think highly of brown trout from a small mountain stream, or a smallmouth from the Susky, etc. because they're popular sportfish. Yes, snakeheads were introduced illegally, but again....it's picking favorites as for what fish we want in our waters. We(collectively) don't want snakeheads, therefore we didn't purposely introduce them. But bass and trout, and skis.....stock away. None of those belong in many places, and all have an impact to some extent.