Proposed DHALO regulations change

[troutbert]

Fishidiot wrote:

troutbert wrote:

Fishidiot wrote:
I agree with Maurice about the views of traditional anglers. I'll confess some sympathy to traditional anglers but I wouldn't support changing the DHALO (yet). Perhaps, they should try the new changes on a few specific streams before they change wholesale the DHALOs statewide.

Are flyfishers non-traditional anglers?

Is someone fishing with spin gear and PowerBait a traditional angler?

You have to watch out for disingenuous uses of the language.

I certainly hope I didn't create the appearance of trying to be disingenuous as that wasn't my intent.
"Traditional" in this context is simply in keeping with the acronym "TAP" that is being used in this case.

The disingenous use of the language is from TAP. We just have to watch out for disingenuous uses of the language. And not get sucked into accepting and adapting such disingenous uses.

Flyfishing originated way, way back in medieval times, or before.

Spin fishing originated around the 1940s. When did Powerbait originate? 1970s or 1980s or so?

Traditional Anglers is a name they chose to position themselves as traditional, as against flyfishers, who they wish to position as as non-traditional. But that is a bogus juxaposition.

Someone using spin gear and spinners, or PowerBait, or Trout Magnets is not more traditional than someone using fly fishing tackle and flies.

 

[mike_richardson]

T.A.P is not against fly fisherman in anyway just the unequal access on waters open to fly fisherman to fish.

I would imagine that fishing with a worm or bait found a long a stream dates back a little further than flies but i could be wrong.

 

[bingsbaits]

http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/treatyse.htm

 

[mike_richardson]

http://www.howtofishguide.com/tackle/history-fishing-hooks

i see your 1400's and rais you 3,000 B.C.

if you count the gorge i guess its 5000 B.C. but i guess the feathers and fur could have disolved over the years

 

[pcray1231]

This is getting good. Arguing over which style of fishing is older.

Where's my popcorn?

Reminds me of a Geirach line from "The Purist", discussing the desire of fly fishing to find it's roots with bamboo, silk lines, gut leaders and the like.

To do it right you'd have to live naked in a cave, hit your trout on the head with rocks, and eat them raw. But, so as not to violate another essential element of the fly-fishing tradition, the rocks would have to be quarried in England and cost $300 each.

.

 

[mike_richardson]

LOL i will resort to the

"he started it line" LOL

i thought the same thing when i saw the link "really?"

but my smart alec nature couldn't let me be outdone pcray.

 

[LongWader]

Recently they found lures made of hair and feathers that could either be a weighted fly or jig from at a dig in Italy that dated back to the early days of the Roman Empire.
Fly fish while not as ancient has been around a long time and the first leaders were made from a horse's tail hair. leader strengths were rated by how many hairs use used to form the tippet section.
Bait fishing probably dates back to cave man days when gorges were used instead of hooks. Some of the oldest bone hooks date back 20,000 years or more.
Fishing in one way or another has probably been part of the hunter gatherer culture since the dawn of mankind.

Sometimes I think sense some ancestors with me when I am fishing.

They probably think I am doing it wrong like my Scottish ancestors who used two handed fly rods and a tippet with 10 flies on dropper lines.

 

[bikerfish]

mike_richardson wrote:
To say that T.A.P. does nothing for the fisheries is the most outlandish thing i have heard about the organization yet. Between our mass fish killing, writing letters to the commision, and managing our wax worm farm we also do the following and are affiliated with:

T.A.P. is affiliated with:
(SCRIP) Stony Creek River Improvement Project
West Branch of the Sesquehanna Rescue
Conemaugh Valley Conservancy
PLAY
Portage Coalition of Sportsman
PA Clean ways

We are working hand in hand with DEP to clean up a section of Trout Run in portage that will be installing settling ponds and wetlands that will be able to hold trout within 2 years. Work on this project has already started.

We are involved in all on going communications to try and clean up the Little Conemaugh and the Hughes borehole that wipes out that stream for miles.

T.A.P. also donates fish to the Portage Volunteer fire department to aid in their fund raising events for their fishing derby.

We have a co-op nursery that the Commission grants us around 7000 fingerlings to add to the streams of Cambria County. We have a free kids fishing derby and stock over a mile of stream and recieve a lot of donations so every kid will leave with a fishing rod, vest, gift certificate or savings bond.

All of the food, electricity, and upkeep of that nursery comes from our pocket and fund raising events. There are some grants that the commision offers our nursery but that alone is not enough.

Through our nursery we provide thousands of fishing opportunities for all anglers reguardless of tackle and stock better quality and more fish than the state in each of the streams in our area. We set up a kids only fishing section on Kane run also.

T.A.P. has also had a role in keeping the Reynoldville Hatchery open to add more fishing opportunities and keep people working.

We offer a youth field day in cooperation with a few other clubs to provide instructional activities to all aspects of the out doors and add a kids fishing derby at the end of the event.

I

Please look into the club more before making outlandish rumors. Thanks.

Mike, I said I never saw any PROOF that they were involved in conservation. I also said if they were, then good for them.
personnally, I don't care what people fish with, but I'll use the example Jack gave, "but it's funny that this place is the only place with any trout left."

Hmmmm, says enough doesn't it?

 

[pcray1231]

It's also frequently wrong. Generally, later season, I avoid special reg sections, as fishing is often better outside of the special regs. Getting "fished out" is a rarity in my experiences, especially in larger streams. There's some "the grass is always greener" going on with the thought process that all the fish are in the special reg sections.

 

[mike_richardson]

i really need to get out to these historical fly stream and experience them. May not happen this year but might have to make a weekend trip out there.

 

[Chaz]

Archeologists have found evidence that using flies for fishing is at least 8,000 years old.

 

[garthdan]

"Future generations of live-bait fishermen may not have a place to fish if new sections or whole streams are closed down to live-bait fishermen. Young fishermen use live bait the first years of their angling lives. If this current trend of closing waters to live bait continues, where will these kids fish?"

One of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read, and I'm sorry, but it bespeaks of nothing more than an attempt to incite fear and outrage over what is - in terms of total waters available - completely inconsequential.

Where will our children fish?! Oh, the children! The poor children! Give me a break! To suggest that "the children" are going to need their hand stamped before they can cross the velvet rope of fishing in Pennsylvania is absurdly laughable. Special Reg projects aren't black mold. They're not a pandemic of chickenox, polio, diptheria, or cyber-bullying. "These kids" will be fine.

FFO's are really the only "exclusive" project areas, and so what? Less than 1% of the areas available to fish are FFO, and any statement that suggests that C&R, FFO or DHALO waters are the "best" waters is summarily false. Perhaps that statement stems from the fact that the fish can't be harvested, so come May, there are actually fish still in the water?

Not bashing bait guys. My father's a bait guy. But it's like the other rules and regulations promulgated by the PFBC, though. Nobody's saying you can't fish "here," but if you're going to fish, you have to follow the rules. And if you want to fish "here," leave the bait in the refrigerator.

To be honest, when I read that the PFBC was holding court on DHALO regulations, I was hoping they were going to clarify what "AL's" really were, so as to stop the spread of the invasive "Can I use Gulp on a DHALO" debate.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear garthdan,

Great first post!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[garthdan]

Thanks. To clarify, I'm the farthest thing from a rabble-rouser.

But when I read that statement from TAP, I envisioned Sally Struthers bemoaning the plight of a frowning child, with a blue container of Eagle Claw crawlers, an empty stringer, and the pricetag still on his shakespeare spinning rod, standing outside a wire, with some huge bouncer-type standing arms crossed, all the while listening to the haunting melody Sara McLaughlin music.

Sardonic to say the least, I know. Just irks me to no end when people use "the children" as a means of provoking regulatory officials into doing something totally political. Reminds me of the episode of Family Guy when Lois was running for Mayor and answered all of her debate questions, "9/11."

 

[Spiral]

How about a new program of "delayed harves all tackle including bait" and putting new stream sections into it, and not touching a thing with exisiting DH areas.

Let's the commission get more bang for their buck during the closed portion: people can use and reuse the resource for a month then open it up to harvest. Another opening day for bait slingers if you will.

Their idea stinks. Like many other said if it ain't broke dont' fix it. The PFBC stands to alienate the very core of their constituency with this proposal.

Idiotic.


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[Spiral]

Seems to me what TAP is lamenting in is they are losing some of the better waters to fish. And why are those better waters still better waters or how have they gotten that way? Special regulations keep the fish in the streams for people to catch over and over again that's why.


If they want to catch fish, then build some more hatcheries and stock more fish and hand out free stringers (the metal kind that clink when you walk) so that people can catch said fish and show them off before they go home and eat them, give them away, or allow them to become freezer burned 10 months later.

And more bait fisherman buy licenses than spin or fly? Ok, i bet you're right. But I also bet that over the course of a season way more hours of spin or fly fisherman are logged on streams than the guy who goes and buys a license for opening day and maybe one other day. Do you really think that guy is going to change his ways and fish more just because of this rule change? I don't think so. Heck, that type thinks trout season ends after May 1......maybe even earlier!



Ridiculous this is even being discussed with one of the most successful programs the PFBC has ever come up with.

 

[mike_richardson]

everyone is entitled to their views but no on can argue that

98% does not equal 100%

if you can break down an equation that shows me this to be true i will stand corrected

done on this until the July meeting. I hope i can go or can get some T.A.P guys to go unless it conflicts with our hatchery clean out where we just fish in the hatchery with our unlimited supply of waxworms and exclude non T.A.P members especially Fly Fisherman

 

[Spiral]

What's more valuable: a trout planted one day to be caught, harvested and taken home the next? Do we even know what becomes of such fish after they are taken home? Freezerburn? fried in butter and eaten? Or is a trout that is caught twice, or maybe three times or more and then perishes of natural causes due to water temperature more valuable?

It can be argued the trout released twice or three times, that remains in the stream longer, has more "value". It's able to be caught multiple times yes, and provide a great experience to those who caught it. But what about all the other financial effects of having trout left in streams for longer periods of time? People are willing to fill up their tanks with gas (no small feat any more), visit the grocery store, buy more tackle, flies, food, camping equipt etc and head out. That helps the economy in alot of small towns these streams are near. multiply that by a couple trips and then what kind of "value" do you have.

Edit: do you think people will spend money and their time going to streams that they know have already been cleaned out weeks before? I know I wouldn't.

Seems to me "value" can be twisted to mean whatever you want.


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[SBecker]

I don't think there are many fly fisherman who would actually want to fish in a hatchery. Bait guys on the other hand break into places like that to fish. You T.A.P guys probably do not know anything aboot that line of behavior though huh?

 

[CRB]

How about the 1% that ruin it for the others= they are usually the bait guys.