Proposed DHALO regulations change

The last three weeks I have been picking up and packing out bait containers, fishing line, sinkers, hooks, plastic lure containers, and lots of other trash. It was so bad last week that I had to go back to the car to get some extra plastic grocery bags that I keep on hand for collecting trash.

I could not reach the plastic bags on the bottom of the river in the deep sections and what really burns me is that none of this stuff was there before Opening Day.

I guess the bait and non-avid fishers did not get the word about not littering.

One sure way to to give all fisherman a BAD NAME and lose access to fishing spots.
 
i can not stand the sight of empty live bait containers either in the creek or on the bank....i mean like on a biblical level.
most of the other trash can be argued, if one would try hard enough, that it washed down in high water.
but there is no doubt what so ever on how the empty bait boxes came to be there...somebody, probably a bait fisher, decided that they not need to carry out the now empty container. a container that they had previously carried in while it was full....and much heavier.
tell me, how many empty fly boxes have you ever picked up?
 
It's bash the bait anglers week! Yeah!
 
Meh they are not all that bad, I used to be one. However, their trash pissed me off. Should have seen all the crap we picked up on the Po last Sunday.
 
SBecker wrote:
Meh they are not all that bad, I used to be one. However, their trash pissed me off. Should have seen all the crap we picked up on the Po last Sunday.
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Betcha found plenty of empty packages from Eagle Claw snelled baitholder hooks. Those always seem to be the predominant litter I find where bait fishing is prevalent.
 
I generally find those snells hanging out of the mouth or down the gullet of trout that must have broken the line or that some bait fisher decided to release because they had gotten their limit. At least they released them.
 
I know of one area in Benton, PA. That was posted several years ago, due to the fact that fisherman were defecating in the homeowners back yard, within view of the house!!! I was a regular at this stretch of creek and got to know the home owners. That was their last straw and they posted it after that to EVERYONE. Could you blame them?

*yes they were bait fishermen :-o
 
Chaz wrote:
It's bash the bait anglers week! Yeah!
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If I seem like I'm bashing bait anglers, that's not totally true. And I don't think we should fight this fight in that manner. People are entitled to fish however they want. What I am bashing is the perceived attitude of this group called TAP, that they are somehow "missing out on" fish in DH areas for harvest. Hogwash. Those fish have given far more people far more value than had they been stocked in open water and a TAP member was able to harvest them immediately.

.....even if they eventually succumbed to high water temperatures after June 15th.

 
Forgot the smiley face. I like the idea of a new reg for DH BO. Delayed Harvest Bait Only, PFCB won't stock it. The purpose being to show bait guys that streams can't support unlimited harvest.:)
 
It's axiomatic. Open the waters to all fishermen, and you'll have more traffic. More traffic means more potential for littering - even if it wasn't intentional, it would still happen. And landowners won't tolerate it. If I was a landowner who had project water on my property, and those special regs were removed to include bait fishing, I'd post my land in a New York Minute. I'm not anti-bait guy, I'm anti-cleaning up everyone's mess.
 
Why would they do this???? In my opinion bait fisherman litter, are rude, crowd up the place and overfish. Thats just my opinion, I don't mean to offend anyone, thats just what I see. Don't DHALO streams keep fish around longer, giving people more time on the water??? I understand that guys who bait fish feel left out, but on opening day they fish out local creeks, so these DHALO areas keep the fish around. Which in my opinion means less stocking for these creeks. I could be wrong! I also see little fish kill during the summer so where are they getting this???

A friend told me on the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat website theres a link for people to go and voice there opinion. Its called the Fishing Hole.

Please for the love of Trout, go and voice your opinions, while theres still time.
 
The Fishing hole does exist. Bottom right of the PAFBC website. I just went and gave them my opinion. Only takes a few seconds to do so I urge everyone else to do the same.
 

I sent in my comments to the PAFBC early this morning and just received a reply. Short version: due to many reasons (some of which he said I provided him) the proposal was tabled at the last meeting. Now what that means in the future I don't know. Send in your opinions and let them be known, because you know as soon as you don't someone will sneak in the back door and get their ear again.


 
I just sent my comments to the PFBC and I agree we all need to make them aware of our opinions on these proposed changes to the DHALO regs. Come on guys it only takes a minute or two. Let them know where you stand.
 
Well it is heart break time again in Maryland. Today is like the second opening day after the second stocking. If it is like opening day a few weeks ago almost every single stocked trout will be gone within 24 hours after the streams opens this morning. Even most of of the fall fish and chubs will be gone. Yesterday I saw 10 or more guys checking out the pools and calling their buddies on there cell phones to rally their fellow harvesters. I spoke to a number of them and there comments were all the same: Me and my buds have to get here early so we can get our share. Not one of them even considered the possiblilty of releasing a fish and when I mentioned that it was sad that all the fish would be gone and that it might be nice to catch a fish more than once they looked at me like I was stupid or something and shook there heads. They told me; that this is just the way it is buddy and if you are late you won't get your share. Going to be cold tomorrow, but you have to be here stake your claim.
I know that these fish are raised to be harvested, but I still wish that more non-avid bait fishers for trout were like most bass fishers and considered releasing more of their fish. It is the non-avid bait fishers attitude that: I paid my money and I am getting my share, that seems selfish to those of us that release most everything and care about the future of the resource. They don't care about the river, its health, or even fishing it after the stocking season. It is just about me and my share. I can undstand it, I know that they are entitled to it, but I don't think I will ever share it or like it.
It is this same expedient (me first attitude) that lends itself to other behavoirs that give all fishers a bad reputation.
 
"If it is like opening day a few weeks ago almost every single stocked trout will be gone within 24 hours after the streams opens this morning."

The best way to ruin a good cause is to call up bad reasons in its favor. Even bait anglers are hard-pressed to clean out a stream, assuming they consciously set out to do so.

We absolutely know that C&Red trout survive to be caught again. We absolutely know that bait angling, and even spin angling with treble hooks, results in greater incidental mortality, sometimes "significantly greater."

What is the big deal if a very small percentage of water is set aside to demand of the angler that he/she use a method of fishing that reduces incidental mortality?

I don't care to use bait, but I do not mind that others do so. However, bait anglers need to be honest with themselves and acknowledge that their method of fishing is more dangerous to the survival prospects of the fish upon release. Again, if the goal is to maximize the "catch-rate" on a given allotment of stocked trout, tackle restrictions make perfect sense.

Here is a challenge to anyone who cares: after Memorial Day, if you visit a DHALO, take a water temperature, or several during your outing. Record the temperature and time of day. I think you will find conditions that are conducive to healthy and viable trout population well into June on many of our DH waters. Before PFBC brings this "off the table" they ought to consider such actual data as they can collect.
 
Mike wrote:
I am pleased to see that in the discussion above you are keeping the two issues separate......the movement of the harvest period from June 15 back to Memorial Day weekend and the allowance of bait angling. You may recall that we previously discussed the Memorial Day idea perhaps a year ago on this Board.

To my knowledge, speculation in the discussion above that any part of this proposal came from bait anglers is incorrect. It is as described, a proposal to get more trout removed from the DH areas before they warm. There is no hidden agenda here and this certainly has nothing to do with license sales.

Incidentally, a "second opening day" like atmosphere was predicted by a segment (the overreacting segment) of the fly angling community when the presently existing June 15 opener to harvest by lure and fly fishermen was established as part of the overall DH reg package. It never materialized. In fact, in my SE Pa experience, one is hard pressed to notice any difference in angling pressure on June 15 from that which occurs on June 14. My colleagues and I have made it a point to be there on June 15 at times.

I'll add that it is important to keep in mind that the proposal, as I understood it a few weeks ago, kept the 3 fish creel limit intact, which limits the interest in some angler's participation in such fisheries (those interested in a higher harvest).
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If your goal is to remove the fish before the water warms, why not increase the creel limit to ten and allow bait. It seems to me that limiting angler participation toward harvest while striving for harvest is a little kooky.

And why is the commission, interested in cleaning out the warm criks of fish that have been providing a greater utilization of the product that than the once and done product provided to the other 95% of stream miles in the state. The stream segments under DHALO already receive less fish per stream mile than their harvested counter parts.

It boggles the mind why if not driven by the consumer base you would tinker with something that has no consequence (ie; some fish mortality due to high summer temps).

If you plan to allow bait, by all means move up the date so it doesn't interfere with the bass opener. (which is why the impact originally feared by the C&R group never materialized). Opening harvest to Mem Day eliminates that competition, increasing the probability of greater angler use, probably 3 fold add bait and you could see dramatic numbers increase for those two weeks before the Bass are of interest to that segment of the angling public.

You should consider an effort of angler education whereby you insert a tag on the fish; Best if used by May 31. Or rather put a bounty on them if you really want the out of the water like you did with the Flatheads and Snakeheads invading the susquehanna......oh yeah, thats right, that never happened.
 
I agree that a river would very hard to fish out in a short period of time, however the body of water in my example is a fairly small stream with a 4 mile section that is stocked. I would not have thought that it is possible to fish it out in about 24 hours, but that is exactly what happened to about 98% of stocked rainbows. Fortunately there is a small population of wild browns that hang on, however even they take a beating at this time of year. Some of them manage to survive and even thrive by being tough to fool and holding and feeding in areas that do not look like typical trout fishing spots like small depressions in the bottom near banks under cover. What hurts is that this same stream is a very fertile and has the ability to support a good population of trout year round, but is still designated as a put and take stream with no delayed harvest period.
 
Dear garthdan,

I don't watch the "Family Guy" but I appreciate that you first post, while sarcastic, was accurate at the same time. That makes sarcasm so much more worthwhile. ;-)

Dear Maurice,

You sarcasm is also noted, the trouble is that it appears that the Fish Commission doesn't want, or need, to cater to the anglers that release fish.

The Fish Commission budget is comprised of money from license sales, period. Due to that fact it appears clear to me that they would much rather sell 100 licenses to people that only fish one time year, rather than cater to one person who fishes 100 times a year.

The stream usage is identical but the revenue generated sure isn't, and revenue is the driving factor.

It's unfortunate, but DH areas will be under new rules, it's only a matter of time.

Regards,

Tim Murphy :)

 
As I said beofre this isn't even in the proposed rulemaking stage, so we're all concerned over what may or may not be discussed at the next meeting.
As far as DH areas, I know they are popular and why, but I've always said it is 1, foolish to put special regs on stocked water since everyone pays for those fish. And 2, that DH is always a missused reg that should only be used at the lower limits of wild trout water to prevent as much as possible the inadvertent harvest of wild trout at the lower limits of the wild trout water while the water still holds wild trout in that area.
 
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