Heavy Rain

[troutbert]

krayfish2 wrote:

To get back on subject, I ran to the lot across from the gun range at the top of the SR section. Figured it was close to the road, easy access paths, etc. The path was pretty much blocked and you can see all of the large trees suspended above the ground. It would be an unnerving hike in to fish knowing that any second, one of several hundred trees might have your number.

We've had flooding that went up and back down in short order. The reason this one concerned me was that the water stayed VERY high for 3-4 days. Lots and lots of timber as the pictures show. Major bank erosion also observed. I actually think it's worse that I'd imagined it would be. Without an army of chainsaws to bring down suspended trees and unblock the main flow, you'd be nuts to go there.

The big log jam photo is right there at the parking lot.

The last 2 photos look like excellent trout habitat.

The photo just above that, I can't tell what is being shown.

Thanks for the photos. And for the stream habitat discussion, which is very interesting.

Regarding all that sand in Clarks Creek. I have seen sand in some other streams in that area. So sand bedload is probably partly just due the geology and soils of that area.

But the amount of sand in Clarks Creek seems YUUUGGGE.

As Mike said, there were long stretches covered with sand before there were lots of woody debris.

Is there something that causes delivery of an unnaturally large supply of sand to Clarks Creek?

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear troubert,

The first photo shows what is left of the diseased and insect ridden canopy that hasn't yet fallen into the stream bed. On a windy day any of those trees stand a good chance of falling on whatever is under them. The possibility is strong that could be a fisherman.

The third picture shows clearly what is happening on Clarks. The lower logjam is fresh from the latest storm. You can tell by the light colored freshly skinned and de-barked trees that make up the pile. The logjam at the top of the picture is from several years ago. I know the place that pictures were taken well.

The problem is that there is far too much woody debris that wasn't felled by nature or time laying around the stream bed of Clarks. Each flood shifts the piles until they build enough water up behind them they are forced out. It intensifies the flooding tremendously and one day will cause a catastrophic flood if some of the debris isn't removed.

Dispense with the flood talk for a minute and realize that Clarks is a stream with a very low gradient. The deeper holes that are created by these unnatural logjams serve to briefly enhance the habitat, but they quickly become collection points for silt and forest debris that serves to choke off the cobble stream bed. There are now holes on Clarks that have almost entirely filled in with looks like mason sand mixed with rotted leaves. That is not good trout habitat, and in my opinion, an opinion shared by many others familiar with the stream, that crud needs to be dealt with.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[troutbert]

TimMurphy wrote:

Clarks is a stream with a very low gradient.

That is definitely true.

Which makes it quite a different situation than you find on the typical forested streams that I usually fish in northcentral PA.

Most of those have a much steeper gradient than Clarks Creek. Their problems are essentially the opposite of Clarks Creek. The flows are too fast, so cause excessive scour, channel incision, often clear down to bedrock, resulting in few pools and little cover.

They are suffering from BD (blockage deficit.) Bring some of those massive logjams up to the NC PA freestoners!

 

[Bamboozle]

More that a few years ago I reached out the the PFBC about the log jams and was told the PAGC owns the property.

When I contacted the PAGC they politely told me they couldn't bothered removing them.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear troutbert,

Bring a bucksaw and some mules and you can take back all the dead falls you want!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[salvelinus]

I haven't fished Clarks in years. In the FFO section there always were slow flat dead sections. In fact much of the stream is low gradient. If deadfalls are so bad, why did the DCNR cut trees across upper Kettle Creek in an effort to improve cover and structure? Yes it's a pita to fish but if it improves the stream why not? Habitat is more important than your ability to fish easily.

 

[Mike]

Regarding your fourth paragraph above in #142....got it. Low gradient makes a difference in these cases. There is a specific stretch in Locust Ck,,Schuylkill Co where a large felled tree or two have created a long, sediment and partially leaf-filled pool in an otherwise good wild trout stretch. In that long pool, however, we find most or nearly all wild trout in the log jam while most of the pool is devoid of fish.

 

[Bamboozle]

The bottom line with Clark's is if it isn't going to be managed for fishing than it really shouldn't be stocked and definitely shouldn't be FFO. The reality is the FFO stretch is so bad in spots that the only folks that could ENJOYABLY fish it are people sitting in chairs on the bank using bait.

So I have to agree with Mike here, if the PFBC is going to spend the money stocking fish, it would be better spent where the resource can be utilized or forget it completely if no one is bothering to use it as intended.

It reminds me of Section 3 of the West Branch Wallenpaupack Creek in Wayne County which is managed as Delayed Harvest Artificials Only. It is so overgrown and difficult to wade that even flipping a spinner will most likely cost you a lure. IMHO it would be better off as Approved Trout and let the bank fishermen who could enjoy it, use it.

Maybe the same goes for Clark’s. Bag the FFO, stop stocking and see if it magically becomes Class A like many believe always happens in situations where stocking takes place over wild fish. If it does, it can become another Wolf Swamp Run that is a royal pain in the arse to fish and those that like that sort of thing can have at it once in a blue moon.

The Clark’s reality is fly anglers have lost a great spot that was FUN to fish all day long. It was a place where you could leg out a decent cast to a sipping riser, catch lots of fish and not spend the entire day flipping flies with bow & arrow casts or trying to climb up an eight foot wall of mud to get out of a 6 foot pool hemmed in by massive log jams.

To me it analogous to landowner posting. You have access to 10 miles of a great creek that is stocked or even wild. As soon as it is posted and you lose access, the stocking stops and the howling begins even though the “habitat” is improving because the stocking & pressure has ceased.

Maybe that's because it isn’t always about what something IS, sometimes it’s about what it WAS...

...and to some folks, it isn’t just about the habitat or why would you even care that you lost it?

 

[bradtheflyfisherman]

Anddddd more heavy rain across the state this entire weekend going into next week. Looks like another weekend for tying flies...

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Do they make permits for arks?
Do you have to get a permit for two of each reptile or amphibians?

 

[troutbert]

bradtheflyfisherman wrote:
Anddddd more heavy rain across the state this entire weekend going into next week. Looks like another weekend for tying flies...

When people say this, you know the conditions on the "mountain streams" will be perfect.

You don't even have to look at the forecast or the USGS stream gage info!

 

[Swattie87]

troutbert wrote:

When people say this, you know the conditions on the "mountain streams" will be perfect.

You don't even have to look at the forecast or the USGS stream gage info!

+1. I already picked out my destinations for this weekend. I'll be there at dawn so tb and the other early birds don't beat me to them! Though in the case of tb, I'd be willing to share. Some of you other spincasters and yakkers, no way.

 

[bradtheflyfisherman]

Well, when there is thunder and lightning forecasted, you likely won't find me with a fly rod in my hand. I do have a couple mountain streams I would like to fish depending on the weather. I was planning to float Penns this weekend, and just a little bit of rain will blow it out, so we canceled that endeavor.

 

[afishinado]

troutbert wrote:

bradtheflyfisherman wrote:
Anddddd more heavy rain across the state this entire weekend going into next week. Looks like another weekend for tying flies...

When people say this, you know the conditions on the "mountain streams" will be perfect.

You don't even have to look at the forecast or the USGS stream gage info!

^Ya know....if I lived in the mountains of Central PA where nearly every drainage is a wild trout stream, I guess I'd feel the same way as you do. I would have no problem finding a trout stream to fish close-by.

But many, if not most of us live in areas where we must travel a good distance to find a decent wild trout stream to fish for this weekend given the forecast for t-storms and several more inches of rain. I don't blame bradtheflyfisherman for being bummed; I'm bummed myself and also don't plan to fish this weekend.

Plus there are guys that love fishing the rivers for smallies or other ww fish that are waiting to get out their boats or wade but haven't been able to get out much if at all this season.

Just imagine how you would feel if you look forward to the fishing season but cannot fish get out to fish in the streams you love most.

 

[Swattie87]

Gotta play the weather and streamflow hand you’re dealt fellas. Some years Summer rains are scarce and flows are low, and the wild Trout fishing turns to junk. Fortunately, this usually correlates to very good flows on big WW streams and rivers though. Think 2016 for instance. I was up in Potter County in September and Kettle was flowing at 6 cfs or something like that! In August, I was having 100+ Smallie days on the Big J though.

Some years are like this, where the opposite is true. Sometimes, the best fishing is at the beach. If you want to fish, there’s almost always something to fish for in conditions that are conducive to it. Just gotta be willing to be flexible and be willing to make a bit of a drive sometimes.

I expect 3.5 hours of round trip windshield time for my outing tomorrow. Coming off being sidelined with poison ivy for the last 3 weeks, I’d gladly drive further if need be to get out in good conditions this weekend.

Don’t get me wrong, I get it’s frustrating. Ideally, I’d love to be Smallie fishing this weekend too, but I’m not gonna sit at home and miss some dialed in small stream Trout conditions over it.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Swattie,

I'm with ya,I'm sick of waiting for bass fishing.
2nd year running. Trout has been supurb. I'm going to crush them tomorrow and like it

 

[troutwilleatflies]

Flash flood alerts for SE Pa. until ???? I can't remember a wet summer like this!

 

[riverwhy]

I had a really good 2 hours on Clark's today in fact best ever. I fished the very lower part of the fly stretch and apparently a bit past it as I started to see some washed out no trespassing signs. Does anyone know how far down that posted land goes?
With regards to the flooding the fish seemed to be doing just fine. I parked at the very small parking area with the deer bones and walked in to find someone above just getting there from above. I hate when that happens. I went down to the iron furnace and fished down to a decent run below the big wooden FFO sign with a wooly bugger catching just one. A ten inch wild brown. Switched to a green weeny with a peeking caddis and caught six more as I fished that pool and back up. 1 really nice rainbow took the peeking caddis. He fought like crazy even trying to jump as I held the line to release him. The other 5 were all caught on the green weeny. So in all 1 nice rainbow, one stocker brown, and 5 wild browns. That is the second Dauphin County freestoner I have fished since the flood both has many fish.

 

[Mike]

When in SE Pa one should not have to put in hrs of driving for small stream wild trout fishing. Heck, they're all around and we find more each field season. For example, in Berks Co yesterday we spotted trib along a heavily used state route that I suspected might be Class A if it actually supported a wild trout population, given the fertility of streams in the area and the excellent habitat. We only got about 75 m before we experienced an equipment problem, but in that short distance the stream was producing a number of 10-12 inch Browns. It was impressive, but we'll have to wait to find out if it is as good as it appeared. Heck, even if ST streams are your preference, you have them along the Blue Mtn, in tribs to the Ltl and main Schuylkill in Schuylkill Co, in tribs to the Lehigh, and, of course, the few in York, Lancaster, and Chester Counties.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

This being the second wet summer, i have discovered a fishable wild rainbow population in a spring creek that's new. Usually this creek would produce a few but they have held over with a decent growth rate in just one stretch of the creek with a few springs in the area. I found them this past spring but they are going strong. Caught some on hoppers with outsiders March brown wet. A few on a sculpin too but the amount of violent strikes I missed around brush was awesome. Those fish left the stream.
Pretty cool stuff.

As mike said, stocked trout fishing was good too, but not as pretty

Might just have to hang up the bass gear an pull out the Hardy Fiberglass till next year :lol: