Heavy Rain

[krayfish2]

I left for work a bit early this morning to take a look at Clarks Creek. I just went to the kids section near the RT 225 bridge. I was surprised by the level and turbidity. Nasty looking.

I simply picked a random section and snapped 3 photos. Photo one is looking upstream and a mess of roots and trunks. Where I'm standing, there used to be a bridge. Photo two is the same location looking downstream at more logjams. Photo three is in front of the hatchery in the kids section. Looks to be trees in the water every 20-25 yards. Not looking good at all. I may drive over and check out the fly section after work. I can't imagine it's very pretty with the amount of trees that were already fallen in that section. Just don't feel like risking a tick hitchhiker to simply look at a place I'll never fish again. lol.

 

[Acristickid]

As of 7am today Spring Creek still in the black on USGS- that’s like 2 weeks. Amazing.

Locals - can the big fish below the spillway in park still able to be seen?

 

[jifigz]

I've never been to Clark's Creek but that water looks great to me.

 

[jifigz]

These spotty showers and more typical summer rain patterns are exactly what we need. Things are starting to drop quickly. Sure, probably not as fast as without any rain but this rain so far isn't keeping the levels from dropping here. If it keeps this up I'll be checking streamers and poppers in the Juniata in no time.

 

[Tups]

Krayfish. I am with Figz. Not to be critical, but I don’t see your point at all. I have never fished Clarks creek but your photos seem to me to indicate natural stream processes in action. The wood represents a positive physical and ecological benefit.

 

[Bamboozle]

Having fished Clark's many times I'm with Krayfish.

In the last 5 years all you do at Clark's in the FFO section is get out of the creek to walk around huge obstructions like the 10 zillion dead hemlocks and massive log jams lying across its length.

Clark's once offered unimpeded wading with great stretches of 100's of yards of varied water. Now some of those sections are broken up into little pockets 10 yards or less of dead slow, VERY deep, silt laden water that while it may hold fish, casting to them is all but impossible.

There are sections I used to spend a half a day fishing, inch by inch in waist deep water catching fish after fish including a few between 18" and 20". Now I just walk by them they are so jammed up.

And it isn't as simple as walking around around obstructions when you come to them because some to the banks are not only too high to access the stream from, they are all but impossible to climb out over if you get in at all.

I have a feeling more of those logs jams and trees are now present with all of this flooding.

I hope I (we) are wrong.

 

[krayfish2]

To those who have never been to Clarks..... The photos are of the open water section which is decent shallow riffs. The fly area used to look similar but now it's a lake with degraded banks, treefalls, silt and not much fun to fish anymore. I'll eventually get up there and post some pics. I have an idea of what I'll see but hope I'm wrong.

 

[outsider]

Clarks Creek used to have a really good Hendrickson hatch and a fairly decent March Brown hatch. From what I have heard on this forum, that is no longer the case. Siltation kills insect and trout eggs, and reduces the habitat for nymphs like Hendricksons to thrive and survive.

 

[Mike]

The open water section looks good to me based on the photos. I'll take that kind of habitat manipulation anytime.

As for the fly stretch, if it is so ponded and unenjoyable for most fly anglers to fish, then why not propose placing that stretch under statewide regulations so that other anglers with fewer gear limitations can take advantage of a fishery there?

 

[troutbert]

How has the wild trout population in the Clarks Creek special regs area changed over time?

Does anyone know? Has the PFBC surveyed the stream over the years, and if so are the results available?

Has in the increase in large woody debris affected the wild trout populations one way or the other?

 

[krayfish2]

Right on Mike. Give the fly fishermen 2.2 miles of that beautiful open water and take back the current beat up section for your truck chasers

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Board,

I can verify that the fly section of Clarks is trashed and in many places unfishable.

The problems started in the early to mid 2000's when so many of the Hemlocks were killed by the wooly agelids, I think that is how you spell them?

Since 2004 it has suffered several historic floods which have knocked down hundreds of the dead trees and randomly piled them up at choke points along the fly stretch where the stream narrows and banks steepen.

It's only a matter of time until another flood builds the junk pile up until it dams the creek up and finally lets go. At that point you can probably say goodbye to many houses and a good portion of Rte 325.

Some of those logjams NEED to be removed.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[TimMurphy]

troutbert wrote:
How has the wild trout population in the Clarks Creek special regs area changed over time?

Does anyone know? Has the PFBC surveyed the stream over the years, and if so are the results available?

Has in the increase in large woody debris affected the wild trout populations one way or the other?

Dear Troutbert,

Prior to the mid 2000's most of my trips to Clarks produced wild brown and brook trout in about equal proportion to the stocked fish. It's a not a scientific study by any stretch but I also saw dozens of anglers in the open water during trout season hauling stringers that had many wild fish on them.

I even had a couple of people show me some of the fish because they were amazed that the state stocked so many brightly colored and perfect trout!

I pretty much stopped fishing it after Ivan and Floyd. I go back once or twice a year for old times sake but it is definitely not what it was. Silty sandy crud has filled in around most of the logjams and that stuff is not conducive to trout rearing.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[Mike]

Habitat as good as that shown in the open area will hold trout regardless of the regs and long after the stockings have ceased for the season as long as the temperatures are suitable e.g. Jordan Ck, Lehigh County in the urban and metro stretches.

Dear Tim,
I surveyed it back in the mid-1970's in the fly stretch and I recall somewhat long, somewhat sandy pools at that time. Of course, that was perhaps five yrs post-Agnes. I was not nearly impressed as I thought I would be, given the stream's billing. Was I there when things had already begun to go south in your recollection?When were the "glory days?" Just searching for a little historical context from one who might have seen it at its modern best.
Regards,
Mike

 

[krayfish2]

Mike,

Tim always signs his posts:

Regards, Tim Murphy

. You signing your last post that way.......absolutely classless IMO. Why is your solution to everything to eliminate fly fishing only areas or to stock more fish? Since you've been doing this for so long, why don't you take a break and retire. That way, I get to see our wild trout fisheries improve before I die.

To get back on subject, I ran to the lot across from the gun range at the top of the SR section. Figured it was close to the road, easy access paths, etc. The path was pretty much blocked and you can see all of the large trees suspended above the ground. It would be an unnerving hike in to fish knowing that any second, one of several hundred trees might have your number.

We've had flooding that went up and back down in short order. The reason this one concerned me was that the water stayed VERY high for 3-4 days. Lots and lots of timber as the pictures show. Major bank erosion also observed. I actually think it's worse that I'd imagined it would be. Without an army of chainsaws to bring down suspended trees and unblock the main flow, you'd be nuts to go there.

The big log jam photo is right there at the parking lot.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Mike,

In the mid early to mid 2000's before the Hemlocks died and the floods built them into logjams Clarks fished very well. So well in fact that for one year I trout fished no other stream. That was I think, 2005, but by the tail end of that year you could see bad things coming.

I'm going by memory here but in late June of 2006 it flooded terribly. And in later years it seems like it floods badly about every two years. I last fished it seriously in 2010 and by seriously I made about 4 or 5 trips. So many of the places where I used to fish and do well looked like bulldozers had been used to pile up logs to stop the flow.

There were very good hatches of Hendricksons, March Browns, Grey Foxes, and Sulphurs. During the summer there were sporadic hatches of Blue Quills and Slate Drakes too. If nothing was hatching and you took your time, and cast well, you could pick up a trout on a caterpillar or a beetle under about every overhanging branch. The many floods have stripped away many of those low hanging overhanging branches and flushed them into the logjams.

In the Fall I'll go back and take a look around for old times sake. I doubt I'll be very enthused about fishing it again but maybe I will see some of the offspring of the mink and deer that used to follow me around when I fished? There were two or three spots on the creek where every single time I fished I would hear chattering along the bank. I'd look over and there would be a mink standing up watching me fish. There were other stretches where I would always see deer standing along the bank checking me out. I hope they managed to find some high ground!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[outsider]

Apparently, my history with this stream seems to go back much farther than others that post about Clarks Creek. It started in the 70's (whenever it was added as a special regs. stream). The regulations were different then, just like Young Woman's Creek, Cross Fork Creek, and Slate Run. Those streams opened for fishing on "opening day" just like every other stream, with exceptions of the "fish for fun" streams (which were open all year round). And yes, you could keep 3 fish per day.

The point being: when I see photos of the debris, log jams, etc., I understand why this stream has degraded.

 

[TimMurphy]

outsider wrote:
Apparently, my history with this stream seems to go back much farther than others that post about Clarks Creek. It started in the 70's (whenever it was added as a special regs. stream). The regulations were different then, just like Young Woman's Creek, Cross Fork Creek, and Slate Run. Those streams opened for fishing on "opening day" just like every other stream, with exceptions of the "fish for fun" streams (which were open all year round). And yes, you could keep 3 fish per day.

The point being: when I see photos of the debris, log jams, etc., I understand why this stream has degraded.

Dear outsider,

Just to be clear I expect the occasional tree to fall and the occasional flood to occur on every stream. That's just life.

The real problem on Clarks that you can see in kray's posts are the sheer amount of deadfalls. These trees died because of an invasive insect, the wooly agelid, and they are not a natural occurrence spawned by weather or time.

Because they were felled by an invasive insect, and because as they lay in the stream now they create the potential for horrific flooding, I believe that they should be cleared or at the very least greatly reduced in size.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[outsider]

Tim, I absolutely agree with your post.

 

[Mike]

The sub-discussion focused specifically on the Clarks FFO habitat modifications associated with storm events/related log jams and difficulties or disappointments they have created for fly anglers as a few have stated here. This was not a FFO discussion; my point was that if present management is no longer appropriate for the conditions that exist, then anglers may want to suggest (not to me) an alternative that would constitute adaptive management.

I agree with Troutbert's observation below. Again, the pics seem to depict what I would describe as good habitat.