Hammersley Fork

Hi all, I fished Hammersley last weekend (from the ford up to Dump Hollow) and didn't have much luck, just one brookie 50 meters upstream from Nelson Branch. I'm guessing it could have been the water temperature as others have suggested (unfortunately I recently lost my thermometer!), but the weather was mid 60s and sunny with a good hatch of stoneflies coming off so I figured I would see a little more action.

I did notice however a lot of aquatic algae, more than I've really seen anywhere else in central/northern PA. This was my first time fishing Hammersley, so I'm wondering if it normally is swamped with algae. It seems like it gets a decent bit of sun in the lower section (below Nelson branch), so maybe it's normal?
 
WildBlueLines wrote:
Hi all, I fished Hammersley last weekend (from the ford up to Dump Hollow) and didn't have much luck, just one brookie 50 meters upstream from Nelson Branch. I'm guessing it could have been the water temperature as others have suggested (unfortunately I recently lost my thermometer!), but the weather was mid 60s and sunny with a good hatch of stoneflies coming off so I figured I would see a little more action.

I did notice however a lot of aquatic algae, more than I've really seen anywhere else in central/northern PA. This was my first time fishing Hammersley, so I'm wondering if it normally is swamped with algae. It seems like it gets a decent bit of sun in the lower section (below Nelson branch), so maybe it's normal?

It is not normally swamped with algae

In terms of numbers, you will do better later in the year
 
A lot of small streams generate a layer of algae over the Winter sometimes. It goes away once the tree canopy blooms and a good rain flushes things out. It’s inconsistent though…some years streams develop it, other years they don’t. I don’t fully understand why. I’m sure it’s sunlight, flow, and temperature related to some degree. Can't say I've ever noticed it on Hammersley, but I'm not there much in the Winter/early Spring.

As stated earlier in the thread, my experience with small wild Trout streams in the northern tier counties of PA is that they generally don’t fish very well until May or so most years. I’ve had the same luck in that same general area on outings at this time of year. I’ve kind of stopped even trying to fish those small streams up there until things have been consistently warm (lows above freezing, and highs into the 60's or better) for a few solid weeks. For contrast, I've had some VERY good days fishing streams similar to Hammersley in size and demeanor across the southern tier of Pennsylvania on warm days in February or March. You wouldn't think there'd be that big of a difference in just a few hundred miles of latitude difference, but my purely anecdotal experience is there is.

As for the Little Black Stones (assuming that’s what they were), I think it has to do more with then they hatch (late Winter/early Spring) and it’s still cold out, but I’ve never seen fish on small wild Trout streams all that interested in eating them, at least the ones on the surface.
 
My experience at Hammersley is if your aren't willing to hike up to and fish beyond Dump Hollow, the fishing is slow.

The place is gorgeous but IMHO, there are better spots up there that require a whole lot less walking to get to the best water.

As a result, I hardly bother with it anymore.
 
Thanks everyone for the input. That makes sense about the algae, I'm sure it has a lot to do with sunlight and seasonal variation in Nitrogen/Phosphorus. I wonder how quickly the algae recedes - it seemed almost every rock was covered in it!

As far as the stoneflies, I'm not sure they were little black stoneflies. They don't often fly, right? These were relatively large and buzzing around the water surface and in the air. The brookie took my dry stone fly, but maybe it was just exceptionally hungry!

At any rate, I'll definitely end up hiking in further before I fish it next time. Thanks for the advice!
 
Been following this for sometime. You have to understand the Fork I was fishing 40 years ago, is still the same minus one big item. Fish, Yea, fish are there but just there. Here and there. Some nice brown trout fell pray to a dry coachman. Brookies. A good time now passed by. Fish it, love it, respect it.


What is needed> couple boy scout jamboree's. Streamwork improvement, structure, etc. Like they did to greys run Lycoming county. But did not save the stream in the end. This would be a great stocking for small trout. You figure this one will hold out left on it's own. I always called that stinking thinking. It's not about me or you, It's about what will inherit our left overs. yes a true enjoyment in the wilds of Pa. but not wild enough. turns out Hammersley, trout run and cross fork streams are not wild as they used to be.


Maxima12
 
Maixima,

You are correct that Hammersley today may not be what it was 40 or 50 years ago when Charlie Cross was teaching George Harvey how to catch big browns by hand that were taking up residence under the undercut banks. But back in those days Hammersley was also being stocked in addition to attracting the big browns from Kettle for spawning runs.

Most streams are not what they were 40 years ago. I went back to Fisherman’s Paradise at Bellefonte in 2018 for the first time since fishing it in the summer of 1978. Coincidently, George Harvey was fishing below me that day in 1978. But in 2018 it was not the stream I remember. It didn’t have the big holes and the huge trout of yesteryear, but it seems like none of them do. Fisherman are just so mobile and have more information about locations. Back in the 1970s there was no forum like this to share thoughts, locations or angling opportunities with people living the whole way across the US or the world. The only way anyone knew about Hammersley Fork is if they were driving on 144 and they looked off the bridge as they crossed it. This meant pressure was much lower.

I think Hammersley is still a very good experience and the wilderness area designation is a big part of that. I fished it just for an hour and a half last year and caught 13 with a large of 10”. I’m happy with that.

Hammersley may not be what it used to be but if someone takes it all in (and I mean the birds, the mushrooms, the snakes, the trees, the aroma) and is not concerned about catching 100 in a day, Hammersley (and many other streams) can offer a very rewarding experience and a great day of solitude.
 
Prospector, well done, well spoken words of wisdom. You said everything I had trouble putting into words. A BIG THANK YOU!

Now, may the revolution and evolution begin.
 
Echoing Prospector...just look at the Little Lehigh. I started fishing that stream in 1982. Today, it is just a shell of its former self. At one time, I thought the LL was one of the best streams in the East. Some may be fine with the LL of today. It is hard to know whether a stream is better or worse if you don't have much to compare it to i.e. you never fished the LL in the 80's, 90's, and all you know is present day. I also fished Spring-FFP around the same time and remember lots of larger trout in the stream all the way down to Talleyrand Park. While there are still large trout in Spring, most of the fish nowadays are cookie-cutter 9-12" wild browns with a sprinkling of larger fish. Is Spring better or worse today...I dunno...again, I think it is all relative to one's experiences, expectations, etc.
 
I plan on fishing it within a week or so.
 
Hammersly has seen a lot of habitat degradation over the decades and my local contact indicates that it is not the stream of past fame.

As for some other comments...
I surveyed the Ltl Lehigh C&R stretch near the hatchery in the early 1980's and if all of the stocked trout that were present would have been removed, it would have been a shell of its former self, but a better stream section for wild trout in the long run. There were so many stockies, including larger fish, and so few fingerling wild trout, which were limited to the shallowest possible water. I concluded that those that strayed likely became forage fish. Although impressive from an angler's perspective, if that's what one seeks, it was quite a population imbalance in my view.

As for the Paradise, when it was loaded with larger fish, often visible to the anglers. Again, as I recall, it was because there were a number of stocked fish or hatchery escapees along with wild fish. I used to marvel at the people constantly fishing over those fish. The Paradise was similar to the Ltl Lehigh stretch mentioned above, or vice versa.

There were stretches of Spring Ck well outside of the Paradise that had much more balanced populations and had some big fish habitat at the time, and those stretches produced nice size Browns, but they did not hold a candle to Logan Branch, the Spring Ck trib.

In addition to scientific literature at the time, from a field perspective, Logan Branch helped in starting my thinking that catch and release was not the generalized route to an abundance of large Browns. What I saw in fertile special reg areas in comparison to areas of the same streams outside of the special reg areas in Pa. helped convince me. Good big fish habitat, good overhead cover, limited competition, and a good forage base could produce an abundance of big fish despite substantial pressure and harvest. In Logan Branch, heavy pressure was generated first by frequent stocking followed by the common knowledge of the stream's big fish, which kept a small cadre of harvest oriented Logan Branch specialists engaged all spring and summer. While the standard stockies would be substantially harvested, those large wild and holdover browns were the beneficiaries, as there was little competition for the substantial forage base and the big fish were quite wary. Follows were common; strikes were not. Growth apparently quickly replaced the few harvested larger fish and those that perished from natural mortality.



 
Mike wrote:

Hammersly has seen a lot of habitat degradation over the decades and my local contact indicates that it is not the stream of past fame.

What is causing the habitat degradation?

 
Below the Nelson confluence the stream repeatedly fragments and jumps its channel. I suspect the old road grade coupled with flood events is to blame. There’s significant stretches where the old road is the stream channel now, or at least a significant part of it. Nearly every trip up the stretch from the ford to the last cabin looks different than the trip before. I suspect the owners of the last cabin are experiencing increasing difficulty in being able to access it, and have had to blaze new trails when there is anything but low water conditions.

Above the Nelson confluence it’s fine. The old road climbs a grade just below the Nelson confluence and peters out into little more than a normal hiking trail.
 
Swattie,
I once made Hammersley into part of a day hike during which I met Hammersley near its mouth and headed upstream well past any cabin. At one point I got to a waterfall that was perhaps 4-6 ft high with a plunge pool that was half filled with sediment. This was the first small piece of habitat that I saw that at one time might have held the famed large fish. My observation was that the habitat was poor from there to the mouth, especially for moderately large fish. Habitat was flat and featureless, and the stream was shallow for the most part, making me wonder what all of the hoopla was about that I had heard over the years. I continued past that falls fir some distance and eventually bushwhacked up a hollow to the right, heading for the poorly blazed (found that out the hard way) Twin Sisters Trail as evening was approaching. Obviously. i never made it to whatever good habitat exists somewhere upstream, possibly where maps show the gradient picking up as I recall.
 
Mike wrote:
Swattie,
I once made Hammersley into part of a day hike during which I met Hammersley near its mouth and headed upstream well past any cabin. At one point I got to a waterfall that was perhaps 4-6 ft high with a plunge pool that was half filled with sediment.
I've fished the Hammersley a lot of times, even going well above "the hole" (where the stream gets small) and I don't recall a waterfall as you describe. There are a couple drops over rock that resemble a falls, but nothing 6' high.
 
Me too. Unless it was a temporary waterfall formed by a large log/debris jam that has since cleared, there’s no 4-6 foot falls anywhere on Hammersley. Some tiny ones on some of its dinky high gradient tribs maybe but none on Hammersley proper. Hammersley itself is fairly low gradient (by mountain stream standards) and doesn’t even really have any small ledge falls or anything, say like Manor Falls on Slate Run. It’s all riffles/runs/pools, repeat.

There’s some sediment down in the lower reaches, presumably from the road grade erosion, but above Nelson there is very little.
 
The last time I was up there in October, I saw two decent browns beginning to stage up in the slow pool right at the forge. No telling if they were hammersley fish or had come up from kettle. I too have had crap luck in the lower part of the stream. Even in the mid section, I have fished for a couple hours without a fish. On a steam like hammersley, that is the exception in that area. I’ve had the most luck above the big pool and in some of the branches. There are spots that are just stupid with fish, and others where you can’t buy a trout. Beautiful part of the state though!
 
There are definitely many habitat problems on Hammersley Fork. Lots of very shallow water, lacking in pools and cover.

I don't think that is new. It was that way when I fished there 30 years ago.

The important questions are: 1) What are the causes? 2) What can be done to restore more normal stream/floodplain structure and processes?

From Route 144 up to the last cabin just below Beech Bottom, the main problem is the cabins in the floodplain and the access roads to them, as already described.

The stream in that long stretch is essentially a straight ditch, and has extremely poor habitat because of that. As long as the cabins are there, it will have to be managed as such, to protect the cabins. If the stream begins to meander and accumulate large woody debris and form channel splits and re-joinings, like a natural stream, that would threaten the cabins and dirt roads with increased flooding and channel avulsions.

In that area there has been a lot of manipulation of the stream, in order to keep it flowing in a simple path, to prevent it from destroying the cabins and access roads.

The effects of that propagate upstream. So even when you get above the last cabins, the stream is shredded.

But from the last cabin up to the headwaters, the main problem is the old logging railroad grade, which was built around the 1880s. And after the logging was done, the old grade was used as a woods road up until modern times. I'm not sure when it was really blocked off. But as I recall, in the late 1980s, there were signs at Beech Bottom saying no vehicles beyond this point, but many people still drove up past there. Then rocks were piled up to close it off. I'm not sure of the date, but I think it was roughly late 1980s. I remember seeing tire tracks way up, as late the late 1980s.

The old grade is in the floodplain in many places. In places the stream appears to have jumped into the old grade, which creates a simplified, ditch-like, straight-down type of channel, which produces terrible habitat.

The old grade has never been re-colonized by vegetation. So you don't get the influences of tree roots, leaning trees, and downed trees that normally produce pools and cover.

Also, during the logging days, probably the entire stream channel was altered to accommodate the railroad grade in the floodplain. The streams normal structure would be wandering from side to side across the floodplain, and with numerous channel splits and re-joinings.

Pools commonly form at bends and where channel splits rejoin. Normal stream structure would also includes large amounts of leaning and downed trees and logjams, which interact with the flowing water to form pools and cover.

But a normal, complex stream, highly connected to its floodplain and that undergoes changes in every major flood like that is incompatible with a having a railroad grade or road grade in the floodplain. So they simplified the stream. You see this not just in Hammersley, but everywhere in PA.

All of the original "woody debris" was surely removed when they built the logging railroad grade. And all of the large trees were logged off.

So, what would should be done for restoration? From the last cabin up to the headwaters, what should be done is to "rip" the old grade, i.e. dig up the compacted soil and reforest it by planting trees and shrubs. In any place where the grade is raised above the normal floodplain surface, and acts as a wall that blocks floodwater flows and prevents the stream channel from moving, it should be leveled out to the normal floodplain elevation, then plant trees.

The hiking trail up the valley should probably relocated in many places, to keep it well away from the stream. And it should be out of the floodplain as much as possible.











The main cause, IMHO, is the old logging railroad grade which was built around the 1880s, and which was then used as a woods road up until modern times.
 
troutbert wrote:
There are definitely many habitat problems on Hammersley Fork. Lots of very shallow water, lacking in pools and cover.

All of the original "woody debris" was surely removed when they built the logging railroad grade. And all of the large trees were logged off.

So, what would should be done for restoration? From the last cabin up to the headwaters, what should be done is to "rip" the old grade, i.e. dig up the compacted soil and reforest it by planting trees and shrubs. In any place where the grade is raised above the normal floodplain surface, and acts as a wall that blocks floodwater flows and prevents the stream channel from moving, it should be leveled out to the normal floodplain elevation, then plant trees.
I agree with everything you said, until you came to the restoration part. I think all of the equipment you would need and getting it there to achieve your goal, would be more destructive/disruptive than the results would be worth.
It would take a lot of years before you would notice any kind of real improvement anyway. Leave it go as it is, Mother Nature has a funny way of righting man's wrongs. :) jmo
 
dwight mentions railroads built in logging days near streams, see map p 33 below... also an original logging co rr map a few pages later p 38 (blurry when I zoom in, but hmmrsly area at lwr right)

http://www.kettlecreek.org/uploads/2/5/6/0/25607137/2culture_compa.pdf
 
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