Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)

[HopBack]

Is it really that difficult to flip over a rock and pick the nymph that looks most like what you see, or picking a yellow dry fly when sulphur’s are hatching?

You clearly have never fished Penns creek. No, it is not always easy to figure out what a fish is eating. You may have sulphurs flying around and not get a single fish to eat your yellow dry fly despite the rising fish. Fish may be keyed on another emerging insect or another tiny dun floating on the surface film.

Switching colors of powerbait or spinners is all about getting a fish to react to your presentation. There is nothing natural about a piece of powerbait. It imitates hatchery feed in which stockers are conditioned to devour.

Spinners may imitate a baitfish however most strikes on an inline spinner are purely reactionary.

When you want to catch a fish by “matching the hatch” you are trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together so well that you can fool a fish into believing what you are presenting is part of a fishes normal diet and feeding patterns.

I have used spinners and powerbait and will likely do so in the future on stocked trout. I do personally enjoy fly fishing more because of the tactics used. To each his own.

 

[TimMurphy]

I think the elitists are those that started flyfishing after watching A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT. 😈

I'm ducking for cover now.

Dear Farmer Dave,

I'm not sure about that but I'm inclined to agree with you.

If you read Frank Trout Angler's post with the responses he received to his FB post, I'll bet a lot of the respondents started FF circa "The Movie." I'll bet most of them fished Trico's in July on 7 and 8X tippet and were all proud of themselves for managing to land a fish on such a combination, conveniently forgetting that they may have likely killed the fish they lovingly released.

One thing I have noticed about people who exclusively promote fly fishing is that they somehow think that catch and release fishing is not a blood sport. It's like they take offense to term without having any knowledge of what it actually means.

Granted, catching and releasing a fish is different than knocking a goose out of the sky with a shotgun, but both sports that many people enjoy in their leisure came about because of the need to harvest food and survive.

I honestly don't believe I know anyone who fly fishes exclusively especially if they fish for more than trout. I know I don't, and never even came close to doing it. I've enjoyed learning to use different tackle and tactics for fishing in many different waters. If some new technique comes up, I'll likely give it a try too, as long as it is legal and respectful of the quarry.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Cznymph]

You clearly have never fished Penns creek. No, it is not always easy to figure out what a fish is eating. You may have sulphurs flying around and not get a single fish to eat your yellow dry fly despite the rising fish. Fish may be keyed on another emerging insect or another tiny dun floating on the surface film.

Switching colors of powerbait or spinners is all about getting a fish to react to your presentation. There is nothing natural about a piece of powerbait. It imitates hatchery feed in which stockers are conditioned to devour.

Spinners may imitate a baitfish however most strikes on an inline spinner are purely reactionary.

When you want to catch a fish by “matching the hatch” you are trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together so well that you can fool a fish into believing what you are presenting is part of a fishes normal diet and feeding patterns.

I have used spinners and powerbait and will likely do so in the future on stocked trout. I do personally enjoy fly fishing more because of the tactics used. To each his own.

What is natural about a royal coachman? What about a pink clouser minnow?

I have fished Penns, I’ve been in the area a few times for work and caught some fish. I didn’t feel like it was worth dealing with high amount of fly fishing d-baggery to make the drive down from Potter to fish otherwise.

Again, I’ll ask what is so difficult about looking under a rock for nymphs or scooping spent mayflies in an aquarium net? Why don’t we refer to the fly patterns we use by the scientific name of the species they are supposed to represent, rather than some silly made up names. It’s all about matching the hatch right? Could you tell me what hatch those flies made from dollar general mop things are supposed to represent?

 

[dudemanspecial]

Sometimes I fish bait with my flyrod. What does that mean?

 

[TimMurphy]

Sometimes I fish bait with my flyrod. What does that mean?

Dear dudemanspecial,

It means you are using your fly rod like your grandfather or Great grandfather probably did.

In the 1940's when spinning reels came to America you had 2 ways to fish. With a conventional reel loaded with 20# dacron line, or a fly rod. The conventional reels of the day were good for maybe 50-foot casts and required constant adjustments if you changed lures or rigs depending on the weight.

With a fly rod and flies you could cover 50 feet, but on those days when you didn't need to cast far or just wanted to drift worms or a sewn-on minnow the fly rod would do the job fine.

Then came spinning reels and 50 feet went to 50 yards and changed the game changed forever. It's a huge reason why older fly fishermen despised spin fishermen. Spinners could stand on the bank and do what fly anglers often couldn't, no matter how crazily they waded.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[dudemanspecial]

Dear dudemanspecial,

It means you are using your fly rod like your grandfather or Great grandfather probably did.

In the 1940's when spinning reels came to America you had 2 ways to fish. With a conventional reel loaded with 20# dacron line, or a fly rod. The conventional reels of the day were good for maybe 50-foot casts and required constant adjustments if you changed lures or rigs depending on the weight.

With a fly rod and flies you could cover 50 feet, but on those days when you didn't need to cast far or just wanted to drift worms or a sewn-on minnow the fly rod would do the job fine.

Then came spinning reels and 50 feet went to 50 yards and changed the game changed forever. It's a huge reason why older fly fishermen despised spin fishermen. Spinners could stand on the bank and do what fly anglers often couldn't, no matter how crazily they waded.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

Pap most definitely did. Trout fishing in creeks was done with a flyrod and nightcrawlers. All other fishing was done with spincast reels. I think he had a couple Mitchell spinning reels but not positive. My cousin took all his fishing gear after he passed the SOB. He had 1 tackle box for every occasion, one of those old aluminum jobs. The man was a fish catching machine too, and he drug us all over the place to fish. He was particularly fond of the upper Allegheny river area and all the tribs. He had a 70's Ford pickup with a cap on the bed and me and my cousins rode in the back. We probably rode enough miles back there to go to California and back.

I miss that.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

One thing I have noticed about people who exclusively promote fly fishing is that they somehow think that catch and release fishing is not a blood sport. It's like they take offense to term without having any knowledge of what it actually means.

Granted, catching and releasing a fish is different than knocking a goose out of the sky with a shotgun, but both sports that many people enjoy in their leisure came about because of the need to harvest food and survive.

We would all be better off to acxept the roots of our sport, kill a fish once in a while and feed our families.

A plump mid teens wild brown makes for a fine meal on occasion. Not to mention panfish! My kids love a fish fry or panfish tacos

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Again, I’ll ask what is so difficult about looking under a rock for nymphs or scooping spent mayflies in an aquarium net? Why don’t we refer to the fly patterns we use by the scientific name of the species they are supposed to represent, rather than some silly made up names. It’s all about matching the hatch right? Could you tell me what hatch those flies made from dollar general mop things are supposed to represent?

The tan/ gray ones can certainly imitate tipulidae cranfly larvae.

Depending on the time of year the green ones could match some caterpillars.

Now obnoxious colors like blue and pink imo just get reactionary bites, but some folks swear by blue ones.

 

[Cznymph]

The tan/ gray ones can certainly imitate tipulidae cranfly larvae.

Depending on the time of year the green ones could match some caterpillars.

Now obnoxious colors like blue and pink imo just get reactionary bites, but some folks swear by blue ones.

But tan or green powerbait represents hatchery pellets…….or so I’ve been told.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Now obnoxious colors like blue and pink imo just get reactionary bites, but some folks swear by blue ones.

Those ones imitate the powerbait hatch.

 

[troutbert]

Many bass fishermen h

Swinging wets and streamers is pretty darn close to drifting bait on the bottom with a spinning rod.

Swinging wets preceded spin fishing tackle by 700 years or more.

 

[Cznymph]

Many bass fishermen h

Swinging wets preceded spin fishing tackle by 700 years or more.

So the point you’re trying to make is that fly fishing requires such little knowledge that people had it figured out more than a half a millennium before bait fishing?

Who knew!

 

[lycoflyfisher]

But tan or green powerbait represents hatchery pellets…….or so I’ve been told.

Unless you van mold a cylindrical shape, not really... powerbait does have the benefit of impregnated scent as well.

I have never knowingly tried power bait on wild trout and honestly probably only used a jar or 2 in my life back in my early teens. Have fished plenty of bait in my life, but this is the first year I didn't make it out on a trout expedition with minnows.

Especially with brown trout during hatches, there are times they can really key in on certain life stages and sizes. One example, on a drizzly day on Penns a few years back they would only take a sz 20 parachute bwo. A guy fishing with me had sz 20 and 22 catskill style flies in exact same color. Fish would hardly look at his. Gave him one of my flies and he caught one first cast.

 

[Cznymph]

Unless you van mold a cylindrical shape, not really... powerbait does have the benefit of impregnated scent as well.

I have never knowingly tried power bait on wild trout and honestly probably only used a jar or 2 in my life back in my early teens. Have fished plenty of bait in my life, but this is the first year I didn't make it out on a trout expedition with minnows.

Especially with brown trout during hatches, there are times they can really key in on certain life stages and sizes. One example, on a drizzly day on Penns a few years back they would only take a sz 20 parachute bwo. A guy fishing with me had sz 20 and 22 catskill style flies in exact same color. Fish would hardly look at his. Gave him one of my flies and he caught one first cast.

In the example you provided, please share what special knowledge that you possessed that only a fly angler would have. Other posters have said that only fly fisherman know how to select lures based on the fishes feeding patterns.

How did you select that specific pattern for that day?

 

[rrt]

Well, I guess I'll take the bait here. From what many of the posters on this thread have said, I guess I would be considered by many of them as an elitist, despite my disgraceful (my wife's opinion) appearance when fishing.

I do not look down on other methods of fishing for trout. In fact, I think skillful bait fishermen may have honed better skills than I can envision. When I was growing up, a couple of local live-bait fishermen were my trout-fishing heroes. They often chuckled at my stubborness (aka stupidity) about trying to catch trout on flies. But, I also think they liked me being a young fisherman on the water at all times of the season, not just the early season. I didn't give up when things were difficult. They even shared a few secret spots!

Anyhow, I guess I am what a lot of posters on this topic think of as an elitist. I do not want to fish by using any other method of fishing than fly-fishing. I want to fish for trout. I started fly-fishing at age 18 (am now nearly 75), and I have probably spin-fished fewer than 20 times in all those years, though I taught my son and granddaughter to fish using bait- and spin-fishing rods. In the past 10 years, I dug out a spinning rod only one time for myself, and that was a clustermess.

I like fly-fishing because there is always something to learn: various techniques, different styles of flies, casting methods, etc. I think flycasting is a beautiful method of casting, especially using dry flies. Though I am not a particularly gifted or enthusiastic fly tier, I do like to be able to tie my own flies to mimic real bugs and other flies to attract trout.

I like the ability to get away from things while fishing. Though I fish popular water, especially during good springtime fly hatches, I enjoy the solitude available on less popular streams and during less popular times of the year for fly-fishing for trout. I like to think there are still a few secret spots. I guess I am also a "trout snob," though I have enjoyed a number of bass-fishing adventures with a friend who spin fishes using spinnerbaits and other lures.

I enjoy reading about fly-fishing. I learned a great deal from instructional books and magazine articles over the years. I particularly have liked reading of others' fly-fishing experiences, especially the stories in Robert Traver's "Trout Madness" and the me-n-Joe stories of John Gierach.

I guess I could drone on endlessly here (I already have somewhat). I imagine from the tone and content of many/most of the posts on this thread, I would be considered a fly-fishing elitist. I make no apologies for being one. I really have enjoyed and continue to enjoy fly-fishing for trout.

 

[Forestfishin]

Sometimes I fish bait with my flyrod. What does that mean?

Late spring we were fishing my favorite stream at camp. Son spins and uses the smallest Joe flies with the treble hook cut off and crushed barbs. He caught a bunch of nice browns and then 3 brookies in about 100 yards that bested any one that I caught there in 20 years. I threw dries added droppers and then fished streamers and only managed a couple dinks. Said screw it and grabbed a spinner off him and proceeded to start landing some nice trout. Was surprised how easy they were to cast with a fly rod. Sometimes you just gotta admit defeat. I now keep a couple in back of my backpack. I always see it as fishing is fishing. The time out there is what’s important.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

In the example you provided, please share what special knowledge that you possessed that only a fly angler would have. Other posters have said that only fly fisherman know how to select lures based on the fishes feeding patterns.

How did you select that specific pattern for that day?

Because there were baetis blue wing olives hatching that I could see among other insects, I tried to match what I saw the fish eating. It took a few tries. Honestly I am not sure any other dry fly pattern would have caught fish for several hours that day. Another angler we encountered walking out had the same experience. I have experience similar situstions elsewhere on occasion as well.

If I was spin fishing with bait say with wax worms I would have tried varied weighted or unweighted presentations (casting unweighted waxworms across penns would be nearly impossible)

I still spinfish for trout several times a year, sometimes vsrious techniques are very effective. Others, without flyfishing I would not have been able to replicate presentations that were catching fish with a spinning rod. Why would spin fisherman ever feel the need or drive to learn insect life cycles for example?

Other forms of fishing can get extremely technical such as depth of water fish are holding or active in, weather, water conditions etc influencing where fish are located, specific techniques and associated rods and tackle to make certain presentations. I know several tournament bass anglers that have thousands of dollars in tackle and rods on their boats, high tech imaging is a whole additional topic.

I fully agree, that fishing is as simple or complicated as one makes it. However, I stand by there are nuances to insect life cycles and certain presentations that spin anglers and bait fisherman would not be likely to want to learn about or be able to employ. Likewise, there are methods of spin fishing that at times may be more effective or efficient than can be replicsted fly fishing.

 

[DomR]

Sometimes I fish bait with my flyrod. What does that mean?

It means you're old, old school. OG. It's easier to fish bait on a fly rod, the length gives you better opportunity to control the dead drift. The best bait guys I knew used old glass fly rods rather than the UL spinning set ups we had. The UL's were just easier for kids to cast.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Sometimes I fish bait with my flyrod. What does that mean?

Bait on a flyrod means "garden hackle" or "aquatic annelid."

 

[troutbert]

Sometimes I fish bait with my flyrod. What does that mean?

It means you are following an old tradition. Spin fishing gear only dates back to the 1940s. There are people around who were born before spin fishing gear existed.

Before spin gear, people fished with fly rods and reels. They often used bait, especially in the spring when the water is high and cold. Then when the weather warmed up, water levels lowered, and the hatches started, many used flies, with the same gear.

The classic book "Trout" by Ray Bergman describes both bait and fly techniques. That book was popular for a long time.