Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)

[JeffP]

The snobs are the ones that answer a curt "2" or "a couple" when you give a cheery hello and ask them if they have had any luck. It's all in the tone.

 

[DomR]

As a non-fly-fisher and someone who has been around fly-anglers since the 1970’s, I’ll offer my “unbiased” opinion on the degree of “elitism” that currently exists. I’ve been a member of the Blair County Chapter of TU (now called John Kennedy TU) since 1979. I don’t consider myself to be “active” in the chapter, but over the years I’ve gotten to know some of the guys. In 1979 (and earlier) there were a lot of guys that I would have thought of as “Fly-Fishing Snobs” To support this claim, my dad told me a comment made many years ago by an officer of the chapter. This fly-angler related a story about how several fly-anglers were trying to catch a specific large brown trout. They couldn’t catch it and then a guy caught it, he said, with a “darn” spinner, with particular emphasis on the word “darn.”

Today I don’t know even one F-FS in the chapter, and some of the guys there were also there in the 1970’s. I’ve done my spinner-fishing seminar for them and other places across the state quite a few times and the best gauge of fly-fishermen attitudes toward spinner fishing comes during the Q&A period at the end of my program. I don’t get as many snobbish questions now as I used to get.

I think I’m much more accepted on this site now than I was years ago. I would consider the anglers on here to be a little more enlightened, though, compared to elsewhere since shared, educated opinions over the years tend to mellow bad attitudes. As an outsider, I’d like to think that maybe I had a little positive input in mellowing those bad attitudes, but many would probably disagree.

I don’t think the clothes a fly-angler wears have much, if anything, to do with whether they are a F-FS.

With this said, I do believe there is still at least some “elitism” among fly-anglers on here, but there is a lot of peer pressure to not express it. If there was a way to get people to express themselves honestly, I think a good way to measure the current degree of “elitism” on here would be by starting a thread entitled, “Should the PFBC Consider Doing Away with FFO Regs on Public Land?”

To show that “elitism” still exists, I thought some of you would get a chuckle out of some the comments that were made on my last four photo essays that I did for the Facebook group “PA Native Brookie Chasers.” Full disclosure: These comments came from just five fly-anglers, and most of them came from just one fly-angler.

F-FS1: “I would love to see some pictures of their mouths after you rip those barbed treble hooks out of them”

F-FS1: “Honestly any kid with a Barbie pole could catch brookies on a spinner.”

F-FS1: “I've actually talked to people that have met you in person and they all agree that you are an XXX.”

F-FS2: “Seriously, Treble hooks on those beautiful brookies ?”

F-FS3: “Someday you should throw away the hardware and try fly fishing …”

F-FS1: “No way on a 4 inch fish.”

F-FS1: “not only do you ruin their jaws with your treble hooks, you take the time measure everyone and document them...lol!!! You're a bigger XXXXXX than I thought”

F-FS1: “I'd really be curious to see to go slumming down here in Washington county amd see how many you can snag with your barbed treble hooks.”

F-FS4: “For someone with as much experience as you have I’d think it wouldn’t be too hard to land trout with pinched barbs, and much better for the fish.”

F-FS1: “You're a snagger, it's ok, we all know. Keep ripping their faces off.”

F-FS1: “you fish the hottest months of the year in low water conditions when the fish are all stacked up and snag 2 out of every 3 fish.”

F-FS1: “Go sharpen your barbed treble hooks to make sure they don't get away and you can rip their faces off.”

F-FS1: “Just show me exactly how you remove a barbed treble hook from a native brook trouts eye.”

F-FS1: “when you rip their eye out, do you leave it on the hook or discard it?”

F-FS2l: “You really should consider using barbless single hooks”

F-FS5: “he could become more skilled and use a fly rod but he needs the attention on here boasting about his #'s so he won't do that either...”

F-FS3: “he really ought to learn to fly fish. Pitch the hardware.”

F-FS3: “Someday you should try fly fishing.”

F-FS3: “if I set out to kill brookies I’d be sure to sling hardware at them..”

F-FS1: “I cam honestly say that my barbless hooks on my flies have never caused any damage or have been deep in their mouth, and never once in their gills.”

Regular Joe: “How long till the fly fishing snobs start bashing you?”

To quote my dad "F'n spinners". God rest his soul he was a BAIT fishing elitist! Never met a bait he didn't like. Loved to fish a UL setup for trout, never took to the fly rod much.

When my cousin and I were younger if we got bored and needed a laugh we'd put spinners on and try to catch fish in front of him. 🙂

 

[Cznymph]

Here is the skinny on it (at least in my eyes):

Fishing with a spinning rod for trout is a very effective strategy. There are times when it will be a far more effective strategy than fly fishing. Fishing with a spinner specifically is a rather simple and straightforward method of fishing, and it is also extremely effective. When it comes to artificial lures, the spinner is a very closely linked lure with trout for good reason.

Fly fishing brings a depth of knowledge into the pursuit of trout that spin fishing cannot. There are times when fly fishing will far out fish spinners, specifically when fish are keyed in on bugs and hatches. There are also water conditions where flies can be presented so delicately that a spinning rod cannot match. In those conditions, an angler with a fly rod has the upper hand.

Trout and flyfishing are linked so closely together because of the abilities to present insect imitations to the fish.

There are definitely anglers that present elitism in the fly fishing world. Sometimes, the trout fishing world is so heavily dominated by fly fishing gear, pictures, etc because of how closely linked the two are together. I don't think elitism is specific to fly fishing and trout, however. The same thing exists within bass angling circles, people with certain types of boats, etc.

I think most people really don't care how people fish. I, however, find decoding rising fish eating god knows what to be infinitely more satisfying than chucking lures on a spinning rod, but that doesn't mean I am knocking spinners or spin fishing.

Is it really that difficult to flip over a rock and pick the nymph that looks most like what you see, or picking a yellow dry fly when sulphur’s are hatching?

 

[dudemanspecial]

Is it really that difficult to flip over a rock and pick the nymph that looks most like what you see, or picking a yellow dry fly when sulphur’s are hatching?

No that's easy. The challenging part is figuring out what they are actually eating when that doesn't work.

 

[WV waver]

A fishing buddy of mine said his grandpa used to say “fishing is a jerk on one end of a rod, waiting for a jerk on the other end”. Truly poetic. We can all be jerks effortlessly.

 

[Cznymph]

No that's easy. The challenging part is figuring out what they are actually eating when that doesn't work.

So like exactly the same as switching from green powerbait to blue powerbait.

 

[dudemanspecial]

So like exactly the same as switching from green powerbait to blue powerbait.

EXACTLY the same.

 

[Cznymph]

EXACTLY the same.

So that sounds like just general fishing knowledge, and not some super special fly fishing thing.

Guess it isn’t that hard after all.

 

[dudemanspecial]

So that sounds like just general fishing knowledge, and not some super special fly fishing thing.

Guess it isn’t that hard after all.

Yep. General fishing knowledge. Grandpap only fished nightcrawlers but boy did his general fishing knowledge come in handy on Spring Creek in June.

 

[Cznymph]

Yep. General fishing knowledge. Grandpap only fished nightcrawlers but boy did his general fishing knowledge come in handy on Spring Creek in June.

I fail to see any difference between knowing when to use power bait with sparkles versus power bait without and knowing when to use a hares ear versus a prince nymph.

Could it be your tightly held elitist views of fly fishing are making you believe there’s something special about knowing when to use a particular lure or bait?

By the way, I’ve done quite well fishing bait on spring creek in June.

 

[Troy]

The snobs are the ones that answer a curt "2" or "a couple" when you give a cheery hello and ask them if they have had any luck. It's all in the tone.

You never know the reason people don't really want to talk on the stream. I am one of them. I go fishing to get the hell away from people. I don't want to have a conversation with people. I'd rather not see a single person. So, I am very short in my answer sometimes.

If I am enjoying my time away from society for a bit and an angler comes up to me all chatty you probably won't get much of a conversation from me. Doesn't make me an elitist. Just a person who really doesn't like people 😁

 

[dudemanspecial]

I fail to see any difference between knowing when to use power bait with sparkles versus power bait without and knowing when to use a hares ear versus a prince nymph.

I agree, but you are oversimpfying the scenario with your chosen flies. If you actually fly fish you know its not always that simple.

Could it be your tightly held elitist views of fly fishing are making you believe there’s something special about knowing when to use a particular lure or bait

By the way, I’ve done quite well fishing bait on spring creek in June.

I bet I have spent over $100 dollars on live minnows altogether this summer. I most definitely bait fished more this year than I have fly fished. Does that qualify me as a live bait elitist?

Fishing can be as easy or as difficult as one chooses to make it.

 

[Zipper]

A good neighbor is a quiet neighbor.

 

[Cznymph]

I agree, but you are oversimpfying the scenario with your chosen flies. If you actually fly fish you know its not always that simple.

I bet I have spent over $100 dollars on live minnows altogether this summer. I most definitely bait fished more this year than I have fly fished. Does that qualify me as a live bait elitist?

Fishing can be as easy or as difficult as one chooses to make it.

I do fly fish, and it’s just that simple.

Basic knowledge of fish and fish habits that cover every discipline of fishing should influence every successful anglers choice in bait, tackle and approach to catching a fish.

Nothing about that is specific to fly fishing, and being a fly angler with that knowledge doesn’t make you special. Having that knowledge makes you a good angler, regardless of your preferred method.

 

[Bamboozle]

Allow me to preface this by saying I make most fly fishing decisions based on wild guess and foggy remembrances of what worked in 1984...

However, I catch a lot of fish despite my inadequacies and crap shoot approach.

But when I compare that to guys I know that are serious conventional tackle bass fisherman or saltwater guys that factor in stuff like tides, bait fish runs, bait fish types, spawning, water temps (unrelated to when I shouldn't fish) and other stuff, it makes my head hurt...

That leads me to believe that fly fisherman take themselves WAY too seriously and in the scheme of things are way less knowledgeable about "fishing" than really good conventional fisherman...

Which means if you are fishing for survival, the average fly angler would starve to death.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I do fly fish, and it’s just that simple.

Basic knowledge of fish and fish habits that cover every discipline of fishing should influence every successful anglers choice in bait, tackle and approach to catching a fish.

Nothing about that is specific to fly fishing, and being a fly angler with that knowledge doesn’t make you special. Having that knowledge makes you a good angler, regardless of your preferred method.

So are we just talking basic knowledge? Sure I agree 100%.There is absolutely more depth of knowledge available with fly fishing though. You can dive as deep as you want, but its there. It doesn't make you special, it doesn't make you a better angler 90% of the time, but that 10% where you are catching fish and nobody else is makes it special right then and there.

 

[FarmerDave]

I'm an all tackle angler. Dad didn't fish much, and when he did, he only fished bait. I started fly fishing when I was about 12, because I could see bluegills hitting bugs on the surface at a relative's pond. At first, I'd just fling cheap flies with my spinning rod. Then I purchased a bamboo fly rod for $5 that was made about the time Gulfgreyhound was just a gleam in his daddy's eye. I didn't know what I was doing and didn't know anyone who flyfished, but gradually i figured it out. No trout streams within a bike rid of home, so I didn't use it for trout until I was about 18. I still have most of that old rod, but it has been modified and rebuilt.

I do prefer flyfishing in most cases, but I'm not a fan of FF only regs, I couldn't care less what gear anyone else uses as long as it is legal.

But one thing I don't do is take notes when someone gives me grief on the internet. 😛

 

[gulfgreyhound]

That rod had my initials on it, Dave. I still have my first fly rod and reel. I've saved it and want to find some one to hang it on a wall in their camp as my tombstone / memorial. Not any time soon I hope. GG

 

[Cznymph]

So are we just talking basic knowledge? Sure I agree 100%.There is absolutely more depth of knowledge available with fly fishing though. You can dive as deep as you want, but its there. It doesn't make you special, it doesn't make you a better angler 90% of the time, but that 10% where you are catching fish and nobody else is makes it special right then and there.

No. I don’t agree.

How many of the concepts of fly fishing are rooted in spin fishing?

Swinging wets and streamers is pretty darn close to drifting bait on the bottom with a spinning rod.

Retrieving a streamer is the same as fishing a spinner or small crankbait.

Fishing subsurface under an indicator is fishing with a bobber. It just is more expensive in the fly fishing world.

How many of us that fly fish today started out fly fishing? I’d wager very few. Those that did were most likely adopted to sport as adults.

Fly fishing will long be perceived by many as elitist or snobbish because of the members of the community who feel that they are special or better because of the method of angling they prefer.

What would be the reaction if many of the states most storied and regarded trout waters were restricted to bait fishing only? I can go fish Slate Run right now with a euro rod and a 50 feet of mono on the end of my fly line, but I’m unable to fish it with a spinning rod and the same exact nymphs and indicator as a fly angler would use.

 

[FarmerDave]

I think the elitists are those that started flyfishing after watching A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT. 😈

I'm ducking for cover now.