Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)

[redietz]

I personally don't give rat's patootie if someone thinks I'm elitist or not. I'll fish the way I enjoy fishing, with whatever equipment pleases me, and invite anyone else to do the same.

Leisenring said it: "We fish for pleasure, I for mine & you for yours."

 

[Tigereye]

He's talking finances and business dealings here, but the point applies.

 

[FarmerDave]

Years ago I grew tired of arguing with people making assumptions about me, or as I liked to say, stuff me into a shoebox (see my avatar). Now that I am older, when someone does that, I usually just nod my head and walk away. I suppose that sounds elitest, but I don't care. I do the same thing when strangers bring up politics.

Meanwhile, I will continue to laugh in silence at the "LOOK AT ME!" craze sweeping the world. 😁

 

[goose54cdd]

Many of my friends and acquaintances still look upon my preference to fly fish in a negative way. I respect all fishing and have done it all. Some of my fly fishing buddies believe it's wrong to pick up a spinning rod. I don't care. I rarely do, but I reserve the right to do so.

 

[JeffP]

Years ago I grew tired of arguing with people making assumptions about me, or as I liked to say, stuff me into a shoebox (see my avatar). Now that I am older, when someone does that, I usually just nod my head and walk away. I suppose that sounds elitest, but I don't care. I do the same thing when strangers bring up politics.

Meanwhile, I will continue to laugh in silence at the "LOOK AT ME!" craze sweeping the world. 😁

I have no social media accounts but occasionally check out my wife's. You are exactly right. Sad and pathetic.

 

[DaveKile]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

As a little known but much hated (fair for the 1st 100 episodes) YouTuber who started out slinging' treble hooks from a spin rod, I have to say this openly. There is a serious problem with fly fishing elitism that permeates sites like this and trout fishing discourses in general.

Quick back story (that no one cares about, please move on to next paragraph). I started trout fishing in my late 20's. I didn't have an uncle or best friend or sage to guid me. I started out with an ugly stick, treble hook panther martins, and no whiff of a net, waders, wet hands, or ethical practices. My first videos are SO cringeworthy. Awful stuff guys. With that said, I was learning. As time went on, I bought a net, pinched my barbs, grabbed some cheap waders, and even went to single hooks. Nothing was ever good enough. As you grow and get better, the expectations from your audience get more onerous. With the ever shifting landscape of social acceptance, no matter what I did, it was not enough for the fly fisherman who were clearly 'better' than me.

As I slowly began to navigate the world of fly fishing, I started to notice something. In the fly shops. On forums like this. In the magazines like Trout. There was a subtle but clear undercurrent of 'othering' the guys who still used spinning reels and tactics. They weren't quite yet 'enlightened'. Sure, they caught fish and had fun, but they weren't like "us". This makes YOU and frankly US look pretentious. We are not better than anyone else enjoying the same recreational hobby, albeit doing it in a slightly different way.

Fly fishing is one type of fishing. Period. This idea that it's "THE" only way to fish is so unbecoming to our community. I used to be able to viscerally feel the contempt from fly fisherman when they'd see me on 'their' stream (ex. Cedar Run or Spring or Penns) while spin fishing. Maybe this is all in my head. But it isn't. You look down upon those who don't fish (or think) exactly the way you do. As a fly fisherman now myself almost exclusively (excepting salt water), I even catch myself sometimes looking down on the spin caster, but every time I catch myself and say, NO, they are just the same as me. And we need more of that around here.

What do you guys think? Are we pretentious DB's or am I way off the mark?

The reasons your threads are being taken down is because you keep bringing in politics and religion to your posts, not sarcasm. If you would read the guidelines, like I as asked, you would understand those policies.

In addition "admin overlords" is new for you, again please review the guidelines.

"Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material." - PAFF Guidelines

“With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?”

We have a serious job moderating this site, we don’t have a lot of time for humor, especially sarcasm. I hate it.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Are there elitists out there? Yep.

Is there a growing sense that anyone with knowledge or education, even of a sport, is elitist? Yep.

People need to learn to teach better when they know something and be accepting of those that don't know something.

And folks who don't know stuff need to stop calling folks elitist who do know some stuff.

I'm not elitist because I FF. I am because I'm the best fisherman in the world! 😂 Kidding of course. But I wonder if the thought that "I know better than you" drives that impression-not unique to FF. Combine that with the trope non-FF have of us-largely due to our gear being expensive, and....

 

[troutbert]

The title of the thread is:

Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)​

But if you fly fish, you are not an outsider. To non-fly fishers, you are also one of those elitist fly fishers.

 

[wildtrout2]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

Without having "site admin overlords", it would be a mess around here. If you don't like it, GO ELSEWHERE.

 

[KELORGO]

I agree with Jif. If you think it’s bad now, wow were a lot of fly fisherman reluctant (trying to be nice here) to help out a new guy back in the day. It would have been real easy to have turned off to fly fishing. Not to say I didn’t run into a couple of gentlemen who gave me a few pointers, and even handed me a fly or two mid-stream, but there where certainly more who couldn’t be bothered to help a kid out. I think the internet (Google, YouTube) and especially forums like this are helping way more than they’re hurting (ONLY talking fly fishing here). If it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t have learned near as much and certainly wouldn’t be tying flies. I think the younger crowd (30s, 40s, 50s) is much less guarded on the water and more eager to talk and share knowledge. I ran into a 42 year old on the West Branch the other day who was having a great time nabbing small rainbows on dries in a tight run. I was nymphing and he invited me to fish back to back to him. I didn’t want to crowd him, since there is plenty of space to fish up there. He was insistent and we struck up a good conversation, so after striking out upstream I took him up on the offer. I wasn’t having any luck, so he suggested I change to smaller nymphs…. First cast and I caught a real nice rainbow that made 5 downstream runs pulling drag. BTW, I’m 56 and still learn something every time I fish.

 

[Kms]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

As a little known but much hated (fair for the 1st 100 episodes) YouTuber who started out slinging' treble hooks from a spin rod, I have to say this openly. There is a serious problem with fly fishing elitism that permeates sites like this and trout fishing discourses in general.

Quick back story (that no one cares about, please move on to next paragraph). I started trout fishing in my late 20's. I didn't have an uncle or best friend or sage to guid me. I started out with an ugly stick, treble hook panther martins, and no whiff of a net, waders, wet hands, or ethical practices. My first videos are SO cringeworthy. Awful stuff guys. With that said, I was learning. As time went on, I bought a net, pinched my barbs, grabbed some cheap waders, and even went to single hooks. Nothing was ever good enough. As you grow and get better, the expectations from your audience get more onerous. With the ever shifting landscape of social acceptance, no matter what I did, it was not enough for the fly fisherman who were clearly 'better' than me.

As I slowly began to navigate the world of fly fishing, I started to notice something. In the fly shops. On forums like this. In the magazines like Trout. There was a subtle but clear undercurrent of 'othering' the guys who still used spinning reels and tactics. They weren't quite yet 'enlightened'. Sure, they caught fish and had fun, but they weren't like "us". This makes YOU and frankly US look pretentious. We are not better than anyone else enjoying the same recreational hobby, albeit doing it in a slightly different way.

Fly fishing is one type of fishing. Period. This idea that it's "THE" only way to fish is so unbecoming to our community. I used to be able to viscerally feel the contempt from fly fisherman when they'd see me on 'their' stream (ex. Cedar Run or Spring or Penns) while spin fishing. Maybe this is all in my head. But it isn't. You look down upon those who don't fish (or think) exactly the way you do. As a fly fisherman now myself almost exclusively (excepting salt water), I even catch myself sometimes looking down on the spin caster, but every time I catch myself and say, NO, they are just the same as me. And we need more of that around here.

What do you guys think? Are we pretentious DB's or am I way off the mark?

Weird

 

[HoboWithAFlyRod]

I’m relatively new to fly fishing and upfront about the fact that I have a lot to learn and I’ve found people are pretty nice and want to be helpful, even ones who’ve been fly fishing for decades. Likewise I’m pretty upfront about my financial constraints and I’ve still had fly shop employees treat me like gold even though I can’t afford the expensive gear.

 

[FarmerDave]

I agree with Jif. If you think it’s bad now, wow were a lot of fly fisherman reluctant (trying to be nice here) to help out a new guy back in the day. It would have been real easy to have turned off to fly fishing. Not to say I didn’t run into a couple of gentlemen who gave me a few pointers, and even handed me a fly or two mid-stream, but there where certainly more who couldn’t be bothered to help a kid out. I think the internet (Google, YouTube) and especially forums like this are helping way more than they’re hurting (ONLY talking fly fishing here). If it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t have learned near as much and certainly wouldn’t be tying flies. I think the younger crowd (30s, 40s, 50s) is much less guarded on the water and more eager to talk and share knowledge. I ran into a 42 year old on the West Branch the other day who was having a great time nabbing small rainbows on dries in a tight run. I was nymphing and he invited me to fish back to back to him. I didn’t want to crowd him, since there is plenty of space to fish up there. He was insistent and we struck up a good conversation, so after striking out upstream I took him up on the offer. I wasn’t having any luck, so he suggested I change to smaller nymphs…. First cast and I caught a real nice rainbow that made 5 downstream runs pulling drag. BTW, I’m 56 and still learn something every time I fish.

I disagree with some of that.

To me, back in the day when it comes to this site is 20+ years ago. I've visited this site off and on since the late 90s.

Some of us didn't believe in spoon feeding (and I still don't), but most of us were more than willing to help a guy out ... in between political arguments.😏

I don't participate as much as I used to because I haven't been able to fish much because of my wife's health issues. Any advice I might offer is old.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Elitist ,hmm, I've been called worse. Be quiet ,Dave, lol. The folks here are pretty good company to hang with and can take a joke or humor well intended and thoughtful. Maligning people because they love a sport maybe elitist? GG

 

[DaveKile]

I disagree with some of that.

To me, back in the day when it comes to this site is 20+ years ago. I've visited this site off and on since the late 90s.

Some of us didn't believe in spoon feeding (and I still don't), but most of us were more than willing to help a guy out ... in between political arguments.😏

I don't participate as much because I haven't been able to fish much because of my wife's health issues. Any advice I might offer is old.

@FarmerDave after 14,201 posts are you saying you haven't helped someone? For the love of Zeus, what have you been posting about? 😉

 

[FarmerDave]

Elitist ,hmm, I've been called worse. Be quiet ,Dave, lol. The folks here are pretty good company to hang with and can take a joke or humor well intended and thoughtful. Maligning people because they love a sport maybe elitist? GG

Art, as far as this thread goes, your signature line says it all.

 

[FarmerDave]

@FarmerDave after 14,201 posts are you saying you haven't helped someone? For the love of Zeus, what have you been posting about? 😉

You got me. I meant not as much as I used to, which I added.

 

[Millsertime]

if there was no moderation, PAFF would not have been around for the past, what 15-20 years?

Other forums i've frequented w/o moderation collapse quickly.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

I'm not elitist because I FF. I am because I'm the best fisherman in the world! 😂 Kidding of course. But I wonder if the thought that "I know better than you" drives that impression-not unique to FF. Combine that with the trope non-FF have of us-largely due to our gear being expensive, and....

Joe, I do think I was referring to other arenas too. I can say that if you are the best fisherman in the world, or an expert in any field, then you don't give a shite what people think of you. Those same folks usually share a love of lifelong learning and a healthy dose of humility too.

There are a lot of experts who are not experts, and those that know can sniff them out right quick....

 

[5footfenwick]

The reasons your threads are being taken down is because you keep bringing in politics and religion to your posts, not sarcasm. If you would read the guidelines, like I as asked, you would understand those policies.

In addition "admin overlords" is new for you, again please review the guidelines.

"Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material." - PAFF Guidelines

“With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?”

We have a serious job moderating this site, we don’t have a lot of time for humor, especially sarcasm. I hate it.

That’s understandable