Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)

[Cznymph]

All you really need is a fly REEL. You can load it with mono and attach it to your spinning rod and viola, you have a euro setup albeit on a shorter rod. But of course to those looking to antagonize and criticize rather than problem solve will find fault with anything just to hear (or see) themselves talk.

Is that what is specified in the regulations? I don’t think it is, perhaps you should read the regulations.

 

[Cznymph]

No, it isn't. The hard part is when fish are rising and there are a zillion bugs coming off at once, and you can't find a pattern they are eating with any sort of reliability, but the fish keep rising all over the place. Or when the fish are rising nonstop, but there is no apparent hatch. So you figure they are eating some sort of tiny midge emerger or something, but you have chucked every pattern of that type you carry to them but you haven't caught one. All the while, those trout just continue to keep rising.

If you tell me that you have never been in a situation where you had rising fish and you didn't successfully crack the code, I would have a hard time believing you. Does it happen to me often? No, not really, but when it does, I find the mystery so intriguing. That is more satisfying to me than almost anything, and it correlates with the opposite of success.

I don’t believe that switching lures or bait presentations when not catching fishing is something that’s unique to fly fishing.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

You’re right, no one is prohibited from fishing FFO waters, provided they can scratch up the money to purchase a fly rod and reel as required by law to fish some of the best waters in the state. For some reason fishing nymphs on a 50 foot section of mono is permitted, but the same nymphs on a spinning rod is prohibited.

Smells like an intentional barrier to entry to me.

How much money scratched up amounts to an intentional barrier? I haven't yet purchased a rod >$200, reel > $50, line/backing/leader material >$50/rig - in over 30 years and I don't default to the cheapest setup available. My flyfishing rigs don't cast that much more than my spinfishing rigs. If I ever happened upon a flyfishing only zone (which I have yet to do), I'm happy to drop the barrier by allowing someone to borrow one of the spare rigs I always seem to have.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Is that what is specified in the regulations? I don’t think it is, perhaps you should read the regulations.

You made me look... it specifically says fly rod and fly reel. Let's revive that other discussion about defining all the nuances of flyfishing 😳

 

[Cznymph]

How much money scratched up amounts to an intentional barrier? I haven't yet purchased a rod >$200, reel > $50, line/backing/leader material >$50/rig - in over 30 years and I don't default to the cheapest setup available. My flyfishing rigs don't cast that much more than my spinfishing rigs. If I ever happened upon a flyfishing only zone (which I have yet to do), I'm happy to drop the barrier by allowing someone to borrow one of the spare rigs I always seem to have.

It is still an additional cost that some may not have the luxury to afford.

It it’s regulated as such from a conservation stand point, I see no reason that single hook artificial lures only would be just as effective.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

It is still an additional cost that some may not have the luxury to afford.

It it’s regulated as such from a conservation stand point, I see no reason that single hook artificial lures only would be just as effective.

One doesn't need to spend so much to make it an unaffordable luxury. That would make it elite.

 

[dudemanspecial]

It is still an additional cost that some may not have the luxury to afford.

Not one person in the state of Pennsylvania is sitting around being upset that they can't fish the FFO waters because they can't find a way to get fly fishing gear. The only people that are actually upset about it are people that want to fish it but don't want to use fly gear. It has absolutely nothing to do with cost or accessibility.

 

[Cznymph]

One doesn't need to spend so much to make it an unaffordable luxury. That would make it elite.

Having to spend any sum of money to get additional equipment, in addition to the spin tackle you already own to legally fish a body of water, could very well be out of the question for folks on a limited budget.

 

[Cznymph]

Not one person in the state of Pennsylvania is sitting around being upset that they can't fish the FFO waters because they can't find a way to get fly fishing gear. The only people that are actually upset about it are people that want to fish it but don't want to use fly gear. It has absolutely nothing to do with cost or accessibility.

Some of you have never experienced poverty and it shows.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Some of you have never experienced poverty and it shows.

You are really reaching here. Nobody in such poverty is probably even aware that FFO waters exist.

 

[Kms]

Some of you have never experienced poverty and it shows.

As a recent accumulator of fly fishing gear, I've discovered that with a little effort and patience one can acquire a serviceable used fly rod, reel and line for under $100 - even under $50 - or a serviceable new chinese-made rig for about the same cost, roughly equivalent to the cost of a basic Ugly-Stik rig.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Having to spend any sum of money to get additional equipment, in addition to the spin tackle you already own to legally fish a body of water, could very well be out of the question for folks on a limited budget.

For just a penny a day you can get those much needed rods in the hands of the homeless.

Seriously though, you apparently have no damn idea either. Anyone who is in poverty isn't thinking about how they can't fish a FFO area.
And frankly, if they were starving but had a spin rod, a hook and a few worms, they would regardless of the law.

Let's just be real here.

 

[jifigz]

I don’t believe that switching lures or bait presentations when not catching fishing is something that’s unique to fly fishing.

You're right. It is not. There is still a big difference between what I stated and what you are implying. Yes, at times, other gamefish are zoned in on certain baits to such a degree that, let's say, the bass are desiring crayfish in the river and not baitfish. Yes, you will catch so many more fish by fishing crayfish lures than minnows. The difference is, however, that damn near any crayfish lure or imitation will get the job done. When trout are on a certain insect, they are often zoned in on a specific life-stage of that insect, a certain color, a certain size, etc, and any variations in that too drastic will often prove to not get eaten by the fish.

Yes, they are similar, but one requires much more precision to detail than the other to be successful.

I have only ever fished one FFO water. The one on Kettle. I couldn't care at all if this reg existed or didn't exist. The best fishing waters, in my opinion, are ruled under general regs.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

So how many people live in close proximity to slate run? Not many. If you can afford gas money to drive there, you can afford a budget flyrod setup if desired.

Cant afford a fly rod to fish at fishermens paradise on Spring creek? Move upstream or downstream a mile and fish however you like.


Need more examples?

 

[Cznymph]

So how many people live in close proximity to slate run? Not many. If you can afford gas money to drive there, you can afford a budget flyrod setup if desired.

Cant afford a fly rod to fish at fishermens paradise on Spring creek? Move upstream or downstream a mile and fish however you like.


Need more examples?

There are people who’s closest trout water is a FFO area.

The point I’m trying to make here, is that regardless of someone’s desire to fish a FFO area is that there is zero difference is fishing nymphs below a bobber or on the bottom with split shot, and fishing nymphs under an indicator with a fly rod or euro nymphing with a 50 foot leader. None of you have been able to share the difference with me.

Why should someone have to spend additional money just to fish those waters with the same 99 cent nymphs as fly anglers?

 

[DomR]

Is that what is specified in the regulations? I don’t think it is, perhaps you should read the regulations.

Here you go cheerio:

• Fishing may be done with artificial flies and streamers constructed of natural or synthetic materials, so long as all flies are constructed in a normal fashion with components wound on or about the hook. Fishing must be done with tackle limited to fly rods, fly reels, and fly line with leader material or monofilament line attached. Anything other than these items is prohibited.

So the limiting factor here is undoubtedly the reel. Any rod, including a "spinning" rod can be used as a "fly" rod. The heavy mono is the fly line and the fly is the fly. So the only limiting factor is you need a fly reel instead of a spinning reel, do that and you can fish all the FFO waters you want. And a basic click and pawl fly reel can be had for about the price of a fast food dinner.

But alas gear compliance is not something one wants to do, they'd rather thump their chest, b!tch, and complain about elitist regulations. People like that IMHO are just blowhards, out for attention cause their mother's didn't give them enough......

 

[Cznymph]

Here you go cheerio:

• Fishing may be done with artificial flies and streamers constructed of natural or synthetic materials, so long as all flies are constructed in a normal fashion with components wound on or about the hook. Fishing must be done with tackle limited to fly rods, fly reels, and fly line with leader material or monofilament line attached. Anything other than these items is prohibited.

So the limiting factor here is undoubtedly the reel. Any rod, including a "spinning" rod can be used as a "fly" rod. The heavy mono is the fly line and the fly is the fly. So the only limiting factor is you need a fly reel instead of a spinning reel, do that and you can fish all the FFO waters you want.

But alas gear compliance is not something one wants to do, they'd rather thump their chest, b!tch, and complain about elitist regulations. People like that IMHO are just blowhards, out for attention cause their mother's didn't give them enough......

I’d invite you to better understand the regulation, as that’s not how the law interprets the passage you pasted. Perhaps a little less chest thumping on your end and more reading comprehension.

58 Pa. Code § 65.14 - Catch and release fly-fishing only

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Some of you have never experienced poverty and it shows.

Seriously... the poverty card?! Applied to fishing for fun?! Have we added trolling to the methods discussed on (now) seven pages?

 

[Cznymph]

Seriously... the poverty card?! Applied to fishing for fun?! Have we added trolling to the methods discussed on (now) seven pages?

Trolling gear is extremely expensive. When I was outfitting my Lake Erie boat some years back, I couldn’t believe what rod holders and track cost.

Why doesn’t Great Lakes trolling, either for salmon/steelhead or walleye have elitist vibe that fly fishing is often associated with?

 

[rancid waders]

Way back I was a salt guy with boat, trolling for kings etc, with hardware. I was happy just to not have to replace anything because of the price.