I believe there are between 500 and 600k people in all of Lancaster county with around 50-60k in the Lancaster City limits.
Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)
- Thread starter Traveling Trout Co
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Are on of those Amish groups the ones we saw out there with the white tops on their buggies? We were told the white top Amish are much stricter than our Lancaster county Amish with black top buggies.
I am afraid Cz is correct about leader length. I just looked it up, and the regs do not specify a length, only that it must be attached to a fly line. I suppose you actually could be legal with only one foot of fly line on the reel being attached to however long a piece of monofilament you choose to use. I believe leader length was, at one time, limited to 18' and shorter.
headhunting22
Member
Interesting, never knew they took out the leader length regulation.
Slate run is a beautiful small stream. Not sure if I would consider it one of the best trout streams in the state but that's just my opinion. There are other streams that share similar features.
Why are you so bent out of shape that maybe 40 miles of stream in the state are reserved for fly fishing?
Because it’s exclusionary. I still fail to see how allowing someone to fish nymphs under a bobber in a FFO area would be any different than someone with a fly reel full of mono and an indicator. The only difference is the price of the preferred gear and the perceived status of using a fly rod.
It’s a bit closer to 61 miles of stream.
Are there any areas where fly fisherman are excluded?
What about the homewaters club? Can you spin fish there?
Why are they no expensive, fancy, fishing clubs that are spin fishing only?
Tigereye
Well-known member
Exclusionary??? Anybody can fish it provided they use fly tackle. Not unlike archery season. Any body can hunt provided one uses archery equipment. Exclusionary is private property.
Are there any areas where fly fisherman are excluded? No. Again one can use archery equipment during fire arm season.
See a pattern here. Perhaps Fly Fishing is a little more difficult and requires a certain skill set.
What about the homewaters club? Can you spin fish there? Never heard of it.
Why are they no expensive, fancy, fishing clubs that are spin fishing only? Because no spin fisherman decided it was something they figure was worth the time effort or money to organize.
Are there any areas where fly fisherman are excluded? No. Again one can use archery equipment during fire arm season.
See a pattern here. Perhaps Fly Fishing is a little more difficult and requires a certain skill set.
What about the homewaters club? Can you spin fish there? Never heard of it.
Why are they no expensive, fancy, fishing clubs that are spin fishing only? Because no spin fisherman decided it was something they figure was worth the time effort or money to organize.
Archery season is an apples to oranges comparison.
Hunting with a bow limits one’s efficacy. That’s why the season is 6 weeks long or longer in some places and rifle season is only 2 weeks long in most places.
Far more people are successful with a rifle than with a bow. This is why hunters may use an antlered deer tag to harvest a doe in any WMU in flintlock season because the harvest rate is so low with that method. It’s why many states give you a general season tag and a bow or muzzleloader season tag.
Would you agree that fly fishing is a more effective way to catch fish?
No one is prohibited from using a bow during rifle season if they choose. No one is prohibited from using a rifle on specific gamelands ( not considering areas of the state where firearm use would be a safety concern). The game commission isn’t setting aside entire game lands for recurve bows only.
So why do you think that areas a designated fly fishing only? Multiple posters have already stated that it makes a stream more popular among anglers, so it can’t be to limit angler pressure. I see no valid biological reason why these areas couldn’t be single hook only artificial lures. In my mind the only reason these areas exist is to give fly fishing a place to go where they won’t be bothered by the “common person.”
shortrod
Member
Ok, I admit, you are part right. But, its not the "common person" that fly fishermen want to keep out. Its just Frank Nale that we want to keep out. No, fly fisherman wants to be struggling to catch a fish and have Frank come up the stream catching fish left and right. Our feeble egos just can't take it.
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Tigereye
Well-known member
You are obfuscating the argument. The argument isn't which is more effective. ( though I think at certain times/ conditions) spin fishing is more effective.
The discussion is why do fly fisherman think they are elite.
If fly fishing is more effective, is that not the definition of elite? If so your point is moot.
If fly fishing is not more effective, then special regulations, just like archery seasons, are befitting of the sport.
The game commission isn’t setting aside entire game lands for recurve bows only. On the contrary there are many areas around Phila that are weapon restrictive for safety concerns but restrictive none the less.
So why do you think that areas a designated fly fishing only? For a variety of reasons. 1) Fish caught with flies or artificial lures tend to be caught in the mouth vs swallowing a bait, thus allowing a greater percent of fish to be released alive. 2) introduction of non native, or invasive species, or parasites getting transplanted via infected minnows, non native minnows, crayfish, or noxious weed contaminated soils from worm cans. 3)Litter. Bait comes in cans, bottles, Styrofoam containers, plastic bags, and usually fished with bobbers and monofiliment. Yes I do see an occasional fly in a tree or lost indicator. But it is a fraction compared to the amount of balls of mono, Styrofoam containers, bobbers, plastic bags, power bait bottles, snelled hook bags, spinner packaging ad nauseum.
So by allowing a spin fisherman to fish nymphs under a bobber (read as indicator), somehow you draw a conclusion that the stream will be littered?
Tigereye
Well-known member
If he is using spin gear, the possibility of a ball of mono is there.
I will not split hairs with you and when you use exceptions, as above to make a counterpoints, I find furthering the discussion pointless.
I will not split hairs with you and when you use exceptions, as above to make a counterpoints, I find furthering the discussion pointless.
I see. So a euro rig made all of mono, just magically biodegrades when it’s littered then? Is that what happens?
FrankTroutAngler
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headhunting22 wrote:
"Slate run is a beautiful small stream. Not sure if I would consider it one of the best trout streams in the state but that's just my opinion. There are other streams that share similar features.
Why are you so bent out of shape that maybe 40 miles of stream in the state are reserved for fly fishing?"
If the PFBC decided to open Slate Run to all methods of trout fishing that's when you would find out which group of anglers that would "get all bent out of shape." Therefore, your argument that non-fly-anglers shouldn't get bent out of shape because there are only a "few" miles of FFO water is not a defendable position.
"Slate run is a beautiful small stream. Not sure if I would consider it one of the best trout streams in the state but that's just my opinion. There are other streams that share similar features.
Why are you so bent out of shape that maybe 40 miles of stream in the state are reserved for fly fishing?"
If the PFBC decided to open Slate Run to all methods of trout fishing that's when you would find out which group of anglers that would "get all bent out of shape." Therefore, your argument that non-fly-anglers shouldn't get bent out of shape because there are only a "few" miles of FFO water is not a defendable position.
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FrankTroutAngler
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Tigereye wrote:
"So why do you think that areas a designated fly fishing only? For a variety of reasons. 1) Fish caught with flies or artificial lures tend to be caught in the mouth vs swallowing a bait, thus allowing a greater percent of fish to be released alive. 2) introduction of non native, or invasive species, or parasites getting transplanted via infected minnows, non native minnows, crayfish, or noxious weed contaminated soils from worm cans. 3)Litter. Bait comes in cans, bottles, Styrofoam containers, plastic bags, and usually fished with bobbers and monofiliment. Yes I do see an occasional fly in a tree or lost indicator. But it is a fraction compared to the amount of balls of mono, Styrofoam containers, bobbers, plastic bags, power bait bottles, snelled hook bags, spinner packaging ad nauseum."
Which group of anglers do you think is most likely to have brought the New Zealand mud snail to Pennsylvania?
Which group of anglers do you think is most likely to have introduced didymo to New Zealand?
"So why do you think that areas a designated fly fishing only? For a variety of reasons. 1) Fish caught with flies or artificial lures tend to be caught in the mouth vs swallowing a bait, thus allowing a greater percent of fish to be released alive. 2) introduction of non native, or invasive species, or parasites getting transplanted via infected minnows, non native minnows, crayfish, or noxious weed contaminated soils from worm cans. 3)Litter. Bait comes in cans, bottles, Styrofoam containers, plastic bags, and usually fished with bobbers and monofiliment. Yes I do see an occasional fly in a tree or lost indicator. But it is a fraction compared to the amount of balls of mono, Styrofoam containers, bobbers, plastic bags, power bait bottles, snelled hook bags, spinner packaging ad nauseum."
Which group of anglers do you think is most likely to have brought the New Zealand mud snail to Pennsylvania?
Which group of anglers do you think is most likely to have introduced didymo to New Zealand?
Tigereye
Well-known member
I have no idea which group would have brought which species where
How could one tell?
How could one tell?
caddisflyer
Well-known member
Maybe we can make a few miles "No Fly Fishing Allowed". Maybe that would satisfy all parties.
FrankTroutAngler
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For the record, I personally would be against this even though I don't fly-fish.
Since the PFBC has already taken a public stream (Slate Run) on public land (State Forest Land) and made it private for a small influential group of fly-fishermen, my suggestion would be for the PFBC to just go all-in and build a $10,000,000 lodge along Slate Run, modeled after Donny Beaver's Homewaters Club in the town of Spruce Creek, so that fly-anglers have a luxurious place to stay when they fish there.
And please, don't give me the argument that Slate Run is not exclusionary for fly-anglers since anyone who doesn't fly-fish can buy a fly-rod and go fly-fishing there. If the fishing regulations on Slate Run were changed to BFO (Bait Fishing Only), fly-anglers would go berserk. Why? Because virtually all of them don't want to bait fish and would feel they are being excluded, similar to how non-fly-anglers currently feel.
FrankTroutAngler
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Common sense?
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