Bad news for virginia

The great compromise!

A few select marginal easy access waters in each region get the full allocation of all PFBC hatchery trout. Kids, elderly and handicapped people are the only that can fish for them. Up the creel limit and keep them in barriers. Keep the fish in those areas. Let them have at it for as long as they desire. Stock it again in the fall with the full allocation of the fall stocking. Same rules apply.

Wild trout streams are unstocked.

I go back to always using a different fertilizer.


YaY🤗 compromise!
 
So let's back track a bit.

I'm confused about people advocating for native fish species as being snobs and elitists. So caring about the environment makes you a snob/elitist? Ummm... ok.

I also am still confused why people don't understand the difference in conservation and fishing preferences?

So far I have yet to hear one logical explanation for how stocked trout are a benefit other than that people want to fish for them and apparently handicapped/disabled people are inadequate at fishing for wild/native fish and need stocked fish to benefit their quality of life because there totally aren't other hobbies than fishing that they could also partake in.

I'll take this as a big WIN for the brookie-loving trifecta. We did it boys, que the music..

I'm confused too, don't you fish the Tulpehocken... 😉

Stocked fish have a place which is obvious based on how 100% of the anglers in MY survey catch them despite denying they are targeting them while fishing a place with a known population.

And not every trout angler wants to go blue lining OR use fly tackle. I know a ton of guys who sit in a chair with Power Bait and have as great a time as some doofus with a backpack & two rods catching 4" brookies.

It's a choice, like anything else but your license gives you the privilege to make that choice and getting bashed for that choice shouldn't be part of the process.

If the elitists stop fishing places like Penns, Tulpehocken, Big Springs, Spring Creek, Yellow Breeches, Saucon, Monocasy, etc., and never set foot on a cold winter's day at some local stocked Special Regulation stream because the "tug is the drug" and it's easier fishing Big Springs than hiking up to some Class A in the snow....

...then I'll shut up and stop calling then hypocrites...

Bottom line, despite their denials they are fishing for and enjoying catching stockers & invasives while telling everyone they are wild/native fish advocates who shun anything else while they belittle anyone who doesn't drink the Cool Aid.

...I am still confused about people being mad about trout being used for fertilizer when the individual doing this followed harvest protocol and can do with said fish what they want to do with them. The trout are killed either way if consumed or used for fertilizer. Are people mad that those fish didn't see time at the dinner table? Who cares? Personally I think fertilizer is a better use for stocked trout as they are quite bland tasting creatures that require 27 herbs and spices to give them flavor (the herbs and spices exceed the weight of said fish being cooked during said process).

Tossing fish up on the bank is wanton waste done out of attrition or a dislike for a particular species. That mentality is childish and nonsensical....

So lets create a little scenario and see if anyone can figure out why this kind of behavior is selfish & wrong...

Stream "A" gets stocked with 100 fish and is utilized by 50 anglers, most of which (according to statistics) who practice C&R and the rest keep a few because they like to eat trout (yea, people do even though you don't) and quite frankly they are cheaper to harvest than to buy in the store.

Along comes someone who takes his catch and feeds it to his cats, JUST to make a point thereby denying the C&R guys additional opportunities to catch & release trout and also denying the folks that harvest a meal more opportunities to eat trout they feel they are entitled to by virtue of buying a license & a trout stamp.

To ME, that's a waste, and really no different than killing a stocked pheasant and leaving it to rot in a field because you really don't like hunting, stocking game or don't like pheasant...

Bottom line, SOMEBODY who does like hunting or pheasant would love to bag that bird but may not get the chance because some selfish person wants to show their disdain for something by wanton waste..

Or look at it another way, it's throwing away food when there are people who are are hungry or would appreciate the meal...

...because you want to make a point... 🤔

I have a better idea...

You want to do something noble; if you feel compelled to kill fish you don't want, offer those stockers to the guy with an empty stringer or take the fish home, clean them and take them to a food bank or homeless shelter....

...Then you can use the BS you espouse as fertilizer instead of fish. 😉
 
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Someone still doesn't understand the definition of wanton waste.
Their opinion on the matter is worth less than the fertilizer.
If they feel so compelled, I can call a WCO and let them sort it out but I can tell them I already know the answer.

In general, the term “wanton waste” describes behavior that intentionally wastes something negligently or inappropriately. With respect to hunting/trapping/fishing, if refers to killing, or attempting to kill, a wild animal and failing to remove that animal from the land and utilize it for a useful purpose , such as consumption of the meat or use of the fur.

Stockers aren't wild but forget that, the animal was removed, it was put to a useful purpose and the meat was even consumed.

Neeeeext!
 
I'm confused too, don't you fish the Tulpehocken... 😉

Stocked fish have a place which is obvious based on how 100% of the anglers in MY survey catch them despite denying they are targeting them while fishing a place with a known population.

And not every trout angler wants to go blue lining OR use fly tackle. I know a ton of guys who sit in a chair with Power Bait and have as great a time as some doofus with a backpack & two rods catching 4" brookies.

It's a choice, like anything else but your license gives you the privilege to make that choice and getting bashed for that choice shouldn't be part of the process.

If the elitists stop fishing places like Penns, Tulpehocken, Big Springs, Spring Creek, Yellow Breeches, Saucon, Monocasy, etc., and never set foot on a cold winter's day at some local stocked Special Regulation stream because the "tug is the drug" and it's easier fishing Big Springs than hiking up to some Class A in the snow....

...then I'll shut up and stop calling then hypocrites...

Bottom line, despite their denials they are fishing for and enjoying catching stockers & invasives while telling everyone they are wild/native fish advocates who shun anything else and while they belittle anyone who doesn't drink the Cool Aid.



So lets create a little scenario and see if anyone can figure out why this kind of behavior is selfish & wrong...

Stream "A" gets stocked with 100 fish and is utilized by 50 anglers, most of which (according to statistics) who practice C&R and the rest keep a few because they like to eat trout (yea, people do even though you don't) and quite frankly they are cheaper to harvest than to buy in the store.

Along comes someone who takes his catch and feeds it to his cats, JUST to make a point thereby denying the C&R guys additional opportunities to catch & release trout and also denying the folks that harvest a meal more opportunities to eat trout they feel they are entitled to by virtue of buying a license & a trout stamp.

To ME, that's a waste, and really no different than killing a stocked pheasant and leaving it to rot in a field because you really don't like hunting, stocking game or don't like pheasant...

Bottom line, SOMEBODY who does like hunting or pheasant would love to bag that bird but may not get the chance because some selfish person wants to show their disdain for something by wanton waste..

Or look at it another way, it's throwing away food when there are people who are are hungry or would appreciate the meal...

...because you want to make a point... 🤔

I have a better idea...

You want to do something noble; if you feel compelled to kill fish you don't want, offer those stockers to the guy with an empty stringer or take the fish home, clean them and take them to a food bank or homeless shelter....

...Then you can use the BS you espouse as fertilizer instead of fish. 😉
You really seem to be having a hard time understanding this.

My issue isn't with the people who fish for stocked trout. It's with the state for where they put them. I'm not, and never have, criticized people for fishing for stocked trout. That's the part you don't seem to get.

When someone says, "stocked trout are bad in a wild brook trout stream," they're not saying, "people who fish for stocked trout are bad."

I think somehow you're taking this personally. It's like you think by someone pointing out how stocked trout are bad is the same as calling you a troglodyte for fishing for them. It's not. You're just missing the point entirely and making something personal that really isn't.
 
He rolls his eyes but it's well known trout are used by catfisherman in the Susquehanna and then release the Flatheads they catch.
But what about the guys that fish those stocked streams that C&R them! Well thems the breaks.
They C&R them right into a warm water death.

All perfectly legal 💁
I even put them to more use than that.

You can spend your time writing pcray long scenarios but it doesn't matter.
 
He rolls his eyes but it's well known trout are used by catfisherman in the Susquehanna and then release the Flatheads they catch.
But what about the guys that fish those stocked streams that C&R them! Well thems the breaks.
The C&R them right into a warm water death.

All perfectly legal 💁
I even put them to more use than that.
I know lots of guys who catch trout explicitly to use as live bait for musky too.
 
Notice none of them have anything to say about mile wide dredge net taking consumable menhaden and herring away from declining striper population so they can be ground to pellets, trucked to a hatchery, and used to grow harmful invasive trout that cost tens of millions of dollars that create a fishery for 2-4 weeks but decreases naturally reproducing fish in the stream year round. They run onto private property, get eaten by predatory birds and many never make it on end of humans line. Your at hundreds of dollars per stocked trout caught after a month or two based on total cost to produce them. And their spreading disease, fowling streams downstream of hatcheries, and destroying native species.

1 mile dredge net to remove base of food pyramid in ocean+gas to truck+nutrient creation+gas to spread invasive species in truck+ invasive fish harm native fish, crustaceans, macros, amphibians + disease

You can’t defend that pile of s*it so please tell me more about how big of an elitist i am because I don’t support THAT.
 
So confused. I thought the guys with memberships at Spring Ridge fishing for Frankenfish were the elitists?

Elitists: a group or class of people seen as having the greatest power and influence within a society, especially because of their wealth or privilege.

Maybe they are seen that way by some, but if they were rich and privileged PA would have made way more progress on native fish restoration!
 
Why do you "assume" that all hatchery fish are disease ridden? If hatchery fish are found to be infected, they are destroyed, not stocked and, the hatchery is shut down period!
There are plenty of "native trout waters" for you native only guys!
I felt that I could make a better point by comparing the PA hatchery system with others by highlighting when disease detection has resulted in a hatchery closure.

Bacterial Kidney Disease- present at Bellefonte, Oswayo and Pleasant Gap. Those hatcheries continue to operate, while detection of the disease temporarily closed Hotchkiss National Fish hatchery in CO.


Bacterial Frunculosis- present at Bellefonte, Benner Spring, Corry, Pleasant Mount, Pleasant Gap, Tylersville, and Union City. This disease lead to the euthanasia of thousands of trout in New Jersey, but PA continues to stock these fish.

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/sto...unculosis-claims-another-90000-trout/8115665/

Every single hatchery except for Union City and Van Dyke test positive for IPN. I understand that the hatchery in Corry no longer tests positive as well. IPN shuttered a NYS hatchery on Long Island.



I could go on and on with every disease listed on the fish health report. It’s truly sickening to think that the agency that is charged with protecting our waters, isn’t.

This isn’t a stocked trout vs wild trout debate. This is right versus wrong debate.
 
I enjoy trout fishing. I fish for wild trout 99% of the time. I 100% support conservation / protection for wild populations and of their streams. Don't care what color those wild fish happen to be.

Not a huge fan of stocking but it is so deeply woven into the fabric of keystone state that you will NEVER stop it. Unless you realize that, you're in for a very disappointing future. I suppose they have their place and in reality, most of us started this sport chasing nub finned monsters that the hatcheries provided.

Would I like to see stocked fish numbers reduced? Yep. Would I like to see them not placed in streams with wild populations? Yep. Would I like to see them stocked in marginal water or water that stays just cold enough until June? Yep. Will I ever support the removal of one wild species to promote a failing population of a different species? Nope.

You guys realize that utopia doesn't exist and never will, right?
 
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I could go on and on with every disease listed on the fish health report. It’s truly sickening to think that the agency that is charged with protecting our waters, isn’t.

This isn’t a stocked trout vs wild trout debate. This is right versus wrong debate.
You are right about that.
They really should be operating properly or not at all.
 
He rolls his eyes but it's well known trout are used by catfisherman in the Susquehanna and then release the Flatheads they catch.
But what about the guys that fish those stocked streams that C&R them! Well thems the breaks.
They C&R them right into a warm water death.

All perfectly legal 💁
I even put them to more use than that.

You can spend your time writing pcray long scenarios but it doesn't matter.

🙄
 
I believe a bait shop near Marietta sells live rainbow trout for flathead anglers.
 
I believe a bait shop near Marietta sells live rainbow trout for flathead anglers.

IMG_20231025_210711.jpg


I'd save the money in the early and mid season.
You paid for the fish already, just got to catch them. Morning trout fishing, afternoon flatheads.
Or afternoon trout and evening flatheads.
 
I enjoy trout fishing. I fish for wild trout 99% of the time. I 100% support conservation / protection for wild populations and of their streams. Don't care what color those wild fish happen to be.

Not a huge fan of stocking but it is so deeply woven into the fabric of keystone state that you will NEVER stop it. Unless you realize that, you're in for a very disappointing future. I suppose they have their place and in reality, most of us started this sport chasing nub finned monsters that the hatcheries provided.

Would I like to see stocked fish numbers reduced? Yep. Would I like to see them not placed in streams with wild populations? Yep. Would I like to see them stocked in marginal water or water that stays just cold enough until June? Yep. Will I ever support the removal of one wild species to promote a failing population of a different species? Nope.

You guys realize that utopia doesn't exist and never will, right?
You don’t 100% support conservation because managing for native species is conservation but there is no such thing as conservation of an invasive species because it causes loss of other vital members of the ecosystem that causes instability. We talk about brook trout alot but we can’t forget there are documented harms to native non game fish that are important to the game fish we like, amphibians, crustaceans/crayfish, and macro invertebrates. It craps on the whole ecosystem not just brook trout. And “failing” is a really inaccurate way to characterize brook trout because wild invasive trout are not “succeeding” on their own merit. They get human handouts/charity every year millions and millions of times over via stocking and they would not even be here if not for humans helping to the species invade by spreading them from Tasmania to Pennsylvania. Brook trout if anything are amazing successes because they had landscape destruction on a level and complexity higher than that nature could throw at them and they survived it and are still here somehow despite our hundreds of millions of dollars spent on hatcheries effectively trying to eradicate them.
 
You don’t 100% support conservation because managing for native species is conservation but there is no such thing as conservation of an invasive species because it causes loss of other vital members of the ecosystem that causes instability. We talk about brook trout alot but we can’t forget there are documented harms to native non game fish that are important to the game fish we like, amphibians, crustaceans/crayfish, and macro invertebrates. It craps on the whole ecosystem not just brook trout. And “failing” is a really inaccurate way to characterize brook trout because wild invasive trout are not “succeeding” on their own merit. They get human handouts/charity every year millions and millions of times over via stocking and they would not even be here if not for humans helping to the species invade by spreading them from Tasmania to Pennsylvania. Brook trout if anything are amazing successes because they had landscape destruction on a level and complexity higher than that nature could throw at them and they survived it and are still here somehow despite our hundreds of millions of dollars spent on hatcheries effectively trying to eradicate them.

Apply this and contact your physician immediately
 

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