sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
I make a really good Yellow Sweet Clover, Camomile, Thyme and Peppermint healing salve.
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Silent Ocelot
Well-known member
Last I've fished the Tully was sometime in May, either 2021, or 2022. I've had moved that stream out of my rotation of streams that I want to fish based off of the people I fish with and where I like to fish by myself. I have no issues with fishing for stocked fish there it's too long of a drive to garner my attention and the crowds have gotten way worse since 2020 during the everybody-must-fish-now mentality that year. I would go back and fish it if a friend wanted to go or a person who is new to the sport wants to fish it. What I really like catching there are the monstrous suckers.I'm confused too, don't you fish the Tulpehocken...
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Silent Ocelot
Well-known member
Stocked fish have a place which is obvious based on how 100% of the anglers in MY survey catch them despite denying they are targeting them while fishing a place with a known population.
And not every trout angler wants to go blue lining OR use fly tackle. I know a ton of guys who sit in a chair with Power Bait and have as great a time as some doofus with a backpack & two rods catching 4" brookies.
It's a choice, like anything else but your license gives you the privilege to make that choice and getting bashed for that choice shouldn't be part of the process.
If the elitists stop fishing places like Penns, Tulpehocken, Big Springs, Spring Creek, Yellow Breeches, Saucon, Monocasy, etc., and never set foot on a cold winter's day at some local stocked Special Regulation stream because the "tug is the drug" and it's easier fishing Big Springs than hiking up to some Class A in the snow....
...then I'll shut up and stop calling then hypocrites...
Bottom line, despite their denials they are fishing for and enjoying catching stockers & invasives while telling everyone they are wild/native fish advocates who shun anything else while they belittle anyone who doesn't drink the Cool Aid.
So lets create a little scenario and see if anyone can figure out why this kind of behavior is selfish & wrong...
Stream "A" gets stocked with 100 fish and is utilized by 50 anglers, most of which (according to statistics) who practice C&R and the rest keep a few because they like to eat trout (yea, people do even though you don't) and quite frankly they are cheaper to harvest than to buy in the store.
Along comes someone who takes his catch and feeds it to his cats, JUST to make a point thereby denying the C&R guys additional opportunities to catch & release trout and also denying the folks that harvest a meal more opportunities to eat trout they feel they are entitled to by virtue of buying a license & a trout stamp.
To ME, that's a waste, and really no different than killing a stocked pheasant and leaving it to rot in a field because you really don't like hunting, stocking game or don't like pheasant...
Bottom line, SOMEBODY who does like hunting or pheasant would love to bag that bird but may not get the chance because some selfish person wants to show their disdain for something by wanton waste..
Or look at it another way, it's throwing away food when there are people who are are hungry or would appreciate the meal...
...because you want to make a point...
I have a better idea...
You want to do something noble; if you feel compelled to kill fish you don't want, offer those stockers to the guy with an empty stringer or take the fish home, clean them and take them to a food bank or homeless shelter....
...Then you can use the BS you espouse as fertilizer instead of fish.
Having had time to collect my thoughts and recover from some of the aneurism-inducing comments, some written by my own sausage fingers, I will now answer the rest of this.
Stocked trout DO NOT have a place as they have an immensely financial and destructive state of existence. PA has proven time and time again with its most highly attractive big trout rivers that no stocking is required and that these rivers/creeks can sustain themselves without the need of additional fish.
Anglers can fish for whatever fish species they want to with whatever tackle they desire as long as the state deems it legal. I wouldn't consider bait and wait fishing for trout angling nor would I consider said individual a skilled angler or one taking the hobby seriously. THAT IS MY OPINION though, and it won't change the course of how anyone fishes. Being mad about people using trout for fertilizer when it is perfectly legal to do so is also just an opinion. And if that bothers anyone they have nothing to do but be mad about it. I wouldn't carry 2 fly rods in by myself as that would be too much to deal with but I when fishing with another person I have discussed the idea of each of us brining a rod where one is suitable for dries and/or dry/droppers while the other is setup tight-line style for working deep plunge pools. Since we are taking turns fishing at these kind of creeks anyways carrying in two rods setup for two different purposes makes sense and we just fish the rod we want for each spot. Your mention of "4 inch" brook trout I take is a jab at the pursuit of going after these native fish and trying to make fun of their size. Size is not the important factor with these native fish, it's about catching A LOT of small super aggressive fish with beautiful colors and in a scenic environment.
Again choosing when and where and what species of fish to choose from is a choice. I'm not against people going for stocked fish but the stocking in of itself.
Well, duh, I'm not hiking up to a mountain-side trickle in the dead of winter because it's dangerous and the tactics I like to employ for catching these kinds of fish won't be as effective. It's also dangerous to do this with snow on the ground. The days are short too so I won't be able to get as much fishing time in. At this point I am content to grind a stocked or wild trout stream. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes so be it. I think the confusion here is that people are confused where the environmentalist stand and it's not that they are against people chasing stocked fish but the acting of stocking in of itself and the problems it causes. I myself will fish for anything, to include taking the top portion of my rod off, tying on a size 28 midge, and picking up sub-2 inch minnows Edo style. I fish for ALL of the fish species when I go out, so whatever I get into I am happy to catch it. I actually hooked a nice stocked bow on Wednesday and it peeled a bit of line off at a rate so fast I thought I tail-hooked it. That was a fun experience and I was glad for it. However, if stocking wasn't done anymore and I couldn't have that encounter, I wouldn't feel robbed or disappointed.
I do think wild/native fish are much cooler to catch and prioritize them but I will gladly tango with stockers if I find them. Sixfoot's garden needs fertilizer too. I don't find my stock trout outings impressive, just something to do. Stocked fish definitely pale in comparison to the wild trout that have impressed with their strength, speed, stupid reaction times, and their majestic ways of sliding off the hook... Stocked fish do not have these qualities.
As for your scenario I hope you aren't talking about any stream in SEPA because those streams get CLEANED OUT in the first weekend. Even the chubs are in shellshock! I practice C&R always. Can you explain to me why people were mad that I WASN'T keeping what I caught. That makes no sense to me. Guess they didn't like that I wasn't on board with the trout kill squad. Stocked fish are put in for the express purpose of being harvested, so you're mad that someone is harvesting them. If I have a right to keep five fish a day THAT IS MY RIGHT. It's not being selfish them's the rules, and if an individual gets agitated by that then I will play the world's smallest fiddle and tell them to "get good". Sixfoot is not taking trout to prove a point, he's taking them to feed his cats and use them as fertilizer, WHICH HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO. If an individual takes issue with this, maybe they should better themselves and become more proficient angler to out-fish him and keep the trout for themselves or donate them to a food bank. What he is doing IS NOT wanton waste, nor is what he is doing the equivalent of shooting an animal and leaving it in the woods. Wanton waste would be tossing fish on the bank to die, which I have heard accounts of trout purists leaving chubs/suckers/fallfish to die on the bank because they were mad that the fish didn't have spots. How insane does that sound?
krayfish2
Well-known member
When 75% (or more) of the license purchasing public in PA buy the license to fish for the stocked trout they paid for and were promised by the PFBC ....you are severely under gunned. You think the PFBC is going to let that money walk out the door? That's their pensions walking out the door.
What's your proposal to turn millions of truck chasers and the people who benefit from raising the fish? <0.001% chance of success. You'd be better off buying lotto tickets and if you win, buy an entire watershed and make it a colorful minnow utopia.
Good luck, you'll need it.
What's your proposal to turn millions of truck chasers and the people who benefit from raising the fish? <0.001% chance of success. You'd be better off buying lotto tickets and if you win, buy an entire watershed and make it a colorful minnow utopia.
Good luck, you'll need it.
F
falcon
Well-known member
Bingo! Buy !that man a cigar! A stream in Nothampton County has fair to good wild browns and decent brook trout numbers that receives supplemental stocking. When PBFC considered ending stocking the uproar went all the way up to the the poltical ladder to Congress.
sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
Calling the premise of removing stocked trout from wild trout streams attempting to make a utopia is a misnomer of epic proportions.
Stocked trout can have a place, just not in wild trout streams. Put them where they ain't. This makes more available fish everywhere. It just makes sense. It removes possible spread of disease, it removes suppression of the wild population, it makes the stocked fish condensed in higher numbers for better harvest or catch rate. Removing them individually from where they shouldnt be isn't hurting anything either.
No one is trying to reclaim the whole state. People are advocating for a more robust and sensible trout management program.
Stocking over top of wild trout populations isn't sensible, it's stupid, regardless of who writes who. Either way, the license buying public could still have the fish they paid for and fish for them.
I shouldn't expect to have to buy a lottery ticket to make one stream be what it should. I should expect our state agency to manage the resources properly. And yes! That even means wild brook trout conservation *shudders*. I should also expect them to keep the promises and declarations they made towards those goals. I should also expect state legislation to make the agency do their jobs.
The general public is being apathetic on one hand but appalled in the other, in all aspects of governmentally run bodies. The PFBC is a small fish in this regard (pun intended). We all know it, but some are willing to voice it regardless if ears bleed. Just because you're apathetic and I'm appalled doesn't negate the persons right to voice it because you dislike the message.
They aren't an agency for conservation, they are a business. You pointed that out and THAT is the problem. They are at odds with conservation. It's no different that oil and gas vs forested lands and watersheds in this regard. Yeah they both give you a snippet of it just to appease some but then continue their ways. At least oil gas have value, stocked trout in wild trout streams just doesn't. If they won't do the sensible thing, then I call the hatcheries be shut down. Regardless if my voice is successful, I at least has the integrity to stand up for something I believe. Stocked trout are bad for wild trout streams. Brown trout should be managed separate from Brook trout. Brook trout deserve conservation protection from both stocked and wild trout. That's it and none of those are happening.
Change starts with education to the public.
The OP thinks stocked trout dying deserves conservation attention. It doesn't. He thinks hatcheries are shutdown and cleaned when disease is present, they aren't always. He also thinks diseased fish are always euthanized, they aren't.
Perhaps it isn't those attempting to show truth that are unreasonable, perhaps it's those that create misnomers 🤔
Stocked trout can have a place, just not in wild trout streams. Put them where they ain't. This makes more available fish everywhere. It just makes sense. It removes possible spread of disease, it removes suppression of the wild population, it makes the stocked fish condensed in higher numbers for better harvest or catch rate. Removing them individually from where they shouldnt be isn't hurting anything either.
No one is trying to reclaim the whole state. People are advocating for a more robust and sensible trout management program.
Stocking over top of wild trout populations isn't sensible, it's stupid, regardless of who writes who. Either way, the license buying public could still have the fish they paid for and fish for them.
I shouldn't expect to have to buy a lottery ticket to make one stream be what it should. I should expect our state agency to manage the resources properly. And yes! That even means wild brook trout conservation *shudders*. I should also expect them to keep the promises and declarations they made towards those goals. I should also expect state legislation to make the agency do their jobs.
The general public is being apathetic on one hand but appalled in the other, in all aspects of governmentally run bodies. The PFBC is a small fish in this regard (pun intended). We all know it, but some are willing to voice it regardless if ears bleed. Just because you're apathetic and I'm appalled doesn't negate the persons right to voice it because you dislike the message.
They aren't an agency for conservation, they are a business. You pointed that out and THAT is the problem. They are at odds with conservation. It's no different that oil and gas vs forested lands and watersheds in this regard. Yeah they both give you a snippet of it just to appease some but then continue their ways. At least oil gas have value, stocked trout in wild trout streams just doesn't. If they won't do the sensible thing, then I call the hatcheries be shut down. Regardless if my voice is successful, I at least has the integrity to stand up for something I believe. Stocked trout are bad for wild trout streams. Brown trout should be managed separate from Brook trout. Brook trout deserve conservation protection from both stocked and wild trout. That's it and none of those are happening.
Change starts with education to the public.
The OP thinks stocked trout dying deserves conservation attention. It doesn't. He thinks hatcheries are shutdown and cleaned when disease is present, they aren't always. He also thinks diseased fish are always euthanized, they aren't.
Perhaps it isn't those attempting to show truth that are unreasonable, perhaps it's those that create misnomers 🤔
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krayfish2
Well-known member
Go ahead and point out where I said "removing stock trout from wild streams attempting to make a utopia "
You strange fellows are looking for a Utopia that only includes brook trout which is a pipe dream as far as I can tell. I repeatedly said that I would like to see trout stocking stopped in waters that contain wild populations. Don't care if they are brook, brown or rainbow. All lives matter
sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
When you frame and conversate in the manor of extremes, expect to get an extreme reply.
Show me where any of us said we are looking a utopia that only includes brook trout , which we also admit is a pipe dream.
It's an appeal to extremes fallacy you keep presenting. It's ridiculous.
It reminds me, when conversing with people like you, that it's entirely possible you are driving a small bus while we talk.
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silverfox
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,928
“You strange fellows”
“Elitists”
“Fanatical native types”
“Hypocrite snobs”
“You elitists are all phonies”
“Bigots”
“holier than thou types”
Wow!
M
Mike
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
- Messages
- 5,550
What?! I guess all of those trout I’ve been able to catch for decades after opening weekend and prior to the first inseason stocking have been imaginary…Antietam Ck, Manatawny Ck, Jordan Ck, Coplay Ck, Hokendaqua Ck, Perkiomen Ck (was tougher than the rest), Unami Ck, Bieber Ck when it was stocked in the old days.
From my standpoint, repeatedly catching 4-5” ST gets old pretty darn fast, just like repeatedly catching 4-5” Bluegills through the ice in winter. It doesn’t give me much of a thrill and it doesn’t take long before I go elsewhere, switch to a bigger lure, or ditch the jigging rod in favor of a minnow baited tip-up.
As for stocking over wild trout, there’s quite a range in wild trout densities and I have no problem with stocking that occurs over low biomass or low density populations. That does not mean that I would approve of stocking over every Class C population, for example…as my thoughts go to some streams in Schuylkill Co. But in the populations that I am speaking about if the habitat (broadly speaking) improves, so will the abundance of wild trout and management can be shifted in response.
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Bamboozle
Well-known member
I'll go ever deeper & darker into SEPA and add Ridley & Darby Creeks to that list...
As a kid I caught trout in both right up to the Closed Period prior to the following year Opening Day.
I haven't fished either that late in a long, long time however, I have a buddy in Delco who doesn't fly fish nor check stocking schedules on-line (that's why he's my buddy
). Every year he catches trout in the aforementioned cricks long after the last in-season stockings...If you're gettin' skunked, maybe y'all should switch to spinning gear & Blue Fox spinners...
Acristickid
Well-known member
Yeah, elitism. Hilarious
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