Article from the New York Times.

[StreamBottom]

IMO it’s just the latest trendy Thing and like most trends, it’ll be Sooo 2019 in a year or so.

They’re marketing their bougie amenities (I learned that term from my millennial daughter) and wine lists to well healed millennials. Fly fishing and is just the hook (pun intended) to get them there.

And if the short attention span of millennials holds true, they’ll be heading back to lodge for kombucha infused cocktails after an hour or two of “meditative” fly fishing, but not catching the poor stockers in the private stretch of stream.

As someone else said on another forum I belong to;

For f#@ks sake, it’s just fishing...it ain't that cool.

 

[bradtheflyfisherman]

All a millenial, still haven't seen much of these people that the article describes out on the stream (sure hope that doesn't mean I'm one of them!!!). All of my friends who started fly fishing have stuck to it and continue to do it. Not sure a single one has ever put down the fly rod after starting - even those who I think got into it more for fly fishing being a trend.

Frankly, I don't think millenials today have the money to dive head first into fly fishing by going out and buying all the necessary gear (or they aren't aware of cheaper alternatives in the market place). To make a broad generalization, most of us don't have much money outside of paying rent, student loans, car payments, food, etc. along with the rising costs of almost everything (boo hoo, right? LOL). And I think more are concerned with spending their money on bar tabs on the weekends with their friends, in cities, after working 8 to 6 PM Monday - Friday. Thankfully fishing and fly fishing ran in my family and friend's families so growing up in it helped, even with regards to hand me down gear, lowering my entry costs into fly fishing.

I think that most of them being environmentally conscious and involved is a good thing for the sport though. As long as they take the time to read and learn the rules and basics about C&R, licenses, FFO sections, and aren't casting over my line, I have no problem with new anglers on the water. Maybe instead of being so defensive about outsiders, we take the time to teach those (who are willing to learn) something about the sport.

The more wealthy ones though, likely those who only fish guided trips and stay in the "bougie" hotels with amenities that are targeting that demographic. Once such example that pops to mind are new money 30-40 year olds that take over places like Jackson Hole, WY. Many in my opinion, are elitist snobs (due to a couple run-ins I've had), and just aren't the right people we want steering the direction of fly fishing and its culture.

For f#@ks sake, it’s just fishing...it ain't that cool.

Lol, ditto on that.

 

[StreamBottom]

bradtheflyfisherman wrote:

I think that most of them being environmentally conscious and involved is a good thing for the sport though. As long as they take the time to read and learn the rules and basics about C&R, licenses, FFO sections, and aren't casting over my line, I have no problem with new anglers on the water. Maybe instead of being so defensive about outsiders, we take the time to teach those (who are willing to learn) something about the sport.

The more wealthy ones though, likely those who only fish guided trips and stay in the "bougie" hotels with amenities that are targeting that demographic. Once such example that pops to mind are new money 30-40 year olds that take over places like Jackson Hole, WY. Many in my opinion, are elitist snobs (due to a couple run-ins I've had), and just aren't the right people we want steering the direction of fly fishing and its culture.

agree 100% on both

And for the record; I'll rank my short attention span right up there with the best millenial and I'm 51! :-D

 

[sarce]

Well said, Brad - from one millenial to another, thanks. The money part is very true for people our age. If people with more money want to spend it supporting the industry, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. The ones doing it to try to fit in with a perceived trend aren't gonna bother finding 95% of the places I fish anyway, they'll go where the guides and fly shops tell them has the biggest fish - doesn't concern me in the least. And if any were to show me genuine interest in learning the sport seriously, I'd help em out.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

troutbert wrote:

The_Sasquatch wrote:

Are they culturally appropriating fly fishing? I know that sounds silly...

Yes, indeed it does sound silly.

It should sound silly. It was intentionally a "stir the pot" comment.

But in some ways, it IS what happens when "kids" gravitate towards something en masse. Tim Robinson and I were talking about it one time with art-music in particular. In the late 80s, early to mid 90s we had really cool "scenes", super original music happening, unique, and there were values etc. to those scenes that people respected. By the end of the 90s, what happened? You had stores like Hot Topic being built, a bunch of "hipsters" (for lack of a better word) getting into this stuff, and it completely white-washed the music. All of a sudden there were 1000 bands that sounded the same. Everything became over-produced with auto-tuned vocals, drum triggers, same riffs, same beats, same runs, same vocal approaches, and on top of it, music medium (be it physical media, merchandise, tickets to shows, etc.) became more and more expensive.

I don't know what the fly fishing "version" of that might be, but COULD something similar happen to fly fishing?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Sylvaneous wrote:
[q]

Relax. It was an analogy. I don't buy into Neo-Marxist rhetoric like "cultural appropriation". Our entire society in the Great American Melting Pot is one of "cultural appropriation".[/q]

Is 'cultural appropriation' part of post-modernism? I heard it mentioned with that ideology in my time with the Intellectual Dark Web. But then, I'm not sure if neo-Marxism can be differentiated....oh, yeah... Jordan Peterson said that, by the 60's and 70's Marxism was so thoroughly discredited that the French intellectuals had to invent something else. And something like that was the origin of post-modernism.

Cultural appropriation is just what every group of people have done everywhere forever. Somehow it became a derisive term. It makes for a rich culture and a better life. It's how Persian kebabs got to be served with rice (The Mongols).

Pardon the digression.

Syl

I love those conversations. But on your point, I was just reading the Gulag Archipelago last week on vacation (light vacation reading....) It was remarkable to me how "post modern" Solzhenitsyn presented the Marxist ideology behind the Soviet Union. At one point in the book, he even used the phrase "the Soviet truth"-which screams of the whole, "Well, that's YOUR truth, but not mine..."

 

[bradtheflyfisherman]

I don't know what the fly fishing "version" of that might be, but COULD something similar happen to fly fishing?

I guess you could consider this version of flyfishing to be the "flat-brim, brand sponsored, euro nymphing snaggers that only catch fish for Instagram likes and sponsorships."

That may have been a bit harsh and a broad generalization (hell I wear the occasional flatbrim and euronymph from time to time) - but I'd say there are a few like that out in the industry - primarily looking for some sort of "fame and fortune" in the fly fishing industry. Whatever that means...and yes most of them appear to be millennials.

And many of them are also genuinely good people who fish responsibly and help promote fly fishing and recruit more to the sport than many of us ever will. Styles / times are a changing too. They may be different from your historical/traditional looking fly fisherman - but share many of the same beliefs and morals when it comes to fly fishing.

Obviously there are a few who are well known for being pieces of (can name a couple Insta-Bros off the top of my head) - essentially catching fish off redds, spot burning, etc. all for fake internet points, or land on the cover of a fishing magazine, etc. Some will view them as "posers" and "new-comers" too - not being true well-rounded fly fishermen who know how to use a variety of techniques in different conditions to catch fish, not "earning it" by spending years upon years on the water learning different streams and rivers, etc. - that sorta deal. But once again, why the hate, it takes years to learn how to be a well-rounded fly fisherman.

 

[tomgamber]

Still trying to figure out where this "I was here first" mentality comes from. Talk about your entitlement. Used to be that tradition was something you kept alive not to yourself.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Again, I"m not taking an "I was here first" approach. I'm simply pointing out what has happened in OTHER areas of life/art when something becomes trendy, and asking, COULD the same thing happen with fly fishing, and what would the downside be? I'm all for passing on traditions. Is there a respect for tradition? Is there even a "set" tradition in FFing?

 

[RLeep2]

It seems to me that in order for anything to "happen" and for there to be potential for a "downside" to this stuff, we first have to be invested to some degree in the idea that there is a fly fishing "scene" in some social sense of the word. I've always had trouble marrying the two things, fly fishing and social, in a way that mattered at all to me.

So, I guess that given that I have no interest in the "scene" or how it changes based on this or that factor or influence, I'm not really concerned about this. I'll just continue to fish like always and when necessary, give wide berth to those I may meet on the water that I sense may have the potential to annoy me, even if it means going to lesser water to do so.

That probably makes me grump at best and a misanthrope at worst. That's OK. I seldom see anybody when and where I fish and that's what matters to me...

 

[troutbert]

This thread reminded me of this gem of a quote:

There's more bs in fly fishing than in a Kansas stockyard. (Lefty Kreh)

 

[tomgamber]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
Again, I"m not taking an "I was here first" approach. I'm simply pointing out what has happened in OTHER areas of life/art when something becomes trendy, and asking, COULD the same thing happen with fly fishing, and what would the downside be? I'm all for passing on traditions. Is there a respect for tradition? Is there even a "set" tradition in FFing?

Squatch, I'm not sure why you think that was directed to you.

 

[TimMurphy]

troutbert wrote:
This thread reminded me of this gem of a quote:

There's more bs in fly fishing than in a Kansas stockyard. (Lefty Kreh)

Dear troutbert,

As someone who fly fishes and who golfed a lot back in the day I'd be hard pressed to say which group BS'es more.

Being FOS myself I fit in well with both groups!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[maxima12]

ISSUE #1. Revenues are insufficient to support the Commission's current levels of programs and services and meet increasing fixed, variable and mandatory personnel costs. "quote".

Trends come and go like night and day. The "cycle, ring, circle", has come about. Capitalize on it, right now! Develop a plan and stick with it. All of us should be proud that great numbers of beginners want to follow us! It really is not about me or you, it is about "US". Wow, we did do something great. Now, the time to lead has risin, T.- Teach, R. - recruit, O. - out manuever the non believer's, U. - unite, T. Trust---------TROUT!

The followers of today will be the teachers of tomorrow! Understand our history, so it will not be repeated. A brighter future for all. How many have stated,"what goes around, comes around".
The future so bright, i might as well wear shades.

Maxima12
.

 

[jifigz]

Just remember everyone that trends come and go and on the whole there are less "outdoorsmen" now than there was many years ago (per the correlating population.) MKern has got it right, it is newbies that buy stuff and keep shops/gear open and available. I have no need to ever buy another fly rod ever again. I will only ever need tying materials, waders, and other small purchases that wear out a lot faster than my rods and reels. That article was a touch silly and ridiculous, however.

I don't mind new people to the hobby, or any hobby, for that matter. After all, none of us were born fly fishing and we all started at some point. The more we have interest in something the better protection, security, and longevity we should have in our resources. Now, with that said, nobody better find it cool to start shotgunning down pigeons on farms because that's my gig. I don't want more pressure there and I'm a hungry guy that can eat a lot of pigeons.

 

[maxima12]

Jifigz stated, "less outdoorsman". I have to disagree! Why? Studies have shown, Worldwide, an increase in outdoor activity. Through the internet, infinite choices have become available. So many choices, what choice will each make. To be just a fisherman, hunter, trapper is little use to today's world unless you live in very remote areas across the world, where life depends on hunting, fishing, trapping for survival and economy. Choices are so vast.

Going for a Autumn drive looking at the leaves changing, is this not an outdoor activity. Cutting wood for winter fuel, how about this? Canning fruits and vegetables, making jerky, gardening, cooking a hot dog over open fire, etc. etc.

Once the front door closes behind you, just about everything you do is a outdoor activity. You do not need to carry a gun, bow, pole or knife to be an outdoorsman. All the work done Worldwide to restore all that we ruined through "poor choices", example, waterways-----Some fish, some do not but a unity is developed to restore! Maybe you are not an outdoorsman by appearance but your mindset definitely states outdoorsman in the 1st degree.

When a group gravitates to one direction, lets say fly fishing. Wow! Something is going on. This may be noted as a trend. Our mission as fly fishermen is "keep the trend moving in a positive direction". Do not ever underestimate, example----- t v keeping you home, wanting your free time for their profitable ratings.

Some will understand what I am trying to say and others will not!

Lets make it a little more simple. "Smell the fresh air or Smell the smoke and stale perfume inside".

Maxima12

 

[jifigz]

Maxima, I was using the term "outdoorsmen" to refer to hunting and fishing as it is often used in that manner..same as "sportsmen." Now, with that said, I still feel like we have less people today hunting and fishing than we did in the 70's, etc. Just my opinion and I don't have any hard facts to prove it.

 

[maxima12]

Well, get some! Hard facts are only as hard as the believer! What you believe, demonstrate, acquire and divulge, are hard facts. Stand by them.

Maxima12

 

[maxima12]

I still have something in the back of my mind that sticks. Paflyfish cookbook. We had a different name for it at one time! With the introduction of a "New Breed". Paflyfish Cookbook, "HARD FACTS".

Work, Yep! And who would not buy into it! Old one's, tell it like it used to be. Middle one's, tell
it like it is, New one's, tell it like you want it to be!

Go with the flow and move like the wind!

Cookbook of all the best---Recipes!

 

[BrookieChaser]

Here you go, Jifigz. It's been widely reported.

https://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/LicensesandPermits/Pages/HuntingLicenseSalesReport.aspx

https://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/FishingLicense/Pages/FishingLicenseSalesReports.aspx

To save the download, the PFBC license sales are down almost 40% from a high in 1990. 1,015,000 to 617,000.

It's not just a PA problem either.