Wild Trout Streams

[silverfox]

In the late 80's my neighbor, who was a "game warden", gave me this map in print:

https://digital.libraries.psu.edu/digital/collection/maps1/id/2772/

That map is a high resolution scan that you can zoom/pan around in.

It's still folded in the pocket in the back of my seat in my truck. In print, it's enormous.

Back then, there was no interactive maps, no internet. I was fortunate in having my neighbor who had been through pretty much every area on the map through his years to guide me. Still though, we sought out the most remote on the map. It was a blast.

As others have said, you will find streams still that aren't on the interactive map that hold fish. Native fish or travelers depending on the system that the stream is part of. You'll also find dead streams. That was one of the most shocking things I remember from our summers of exploring.

I recall one stream that was a very difficult hike into. There was no trail to it and the only way in was down a steep hill full of laurel and huge quartzite boulders. At the bottom of this ravine was one of the most beautiful streams I've ever seen. We were giddy with anticipation as the stream came into view. We set straight to casting as we'd done countless times before, but pretty quickly became puzzled. Where there should've been brookies slamming our flies, there were none.

The stream was gin clear and some of the pools were pushing 4 feet deep. We started to investigate and pretty quickly realized that there was absolutely nothing in the stream. It was dead. No insects, no crayfish, no baitfish. Nothing.

That stream wasn't near any kind of mine runoff etc. In fact, there was never any industrialization anywhere near it. Later, I often thought about going back there with some water testing gear to see what the problem was, but never did.

The flip side of that story is when you put in the leg work to find a remote stream, hike and battle the brush to finally get there and it's full of trout. In my opinion, the exploration for the less traveled is half the fun. Seek out your own discoveries.

 

[MKern]

I have that map in a laminated poster, with the accompanying guide book.

I used to have it hung in my tying room.

 

[sarce]

Sal, where did that image come from?

I've been slowly putting together something similar and am now curious if it has already been done.

 

[JasonC]

Thanks again, I really appreciate the input. I've been reading some articles about reading topographical maps but I already have a good base knowledge of how to read those, they're pretty straightforward. I need to get better at applying what I'm seeing on the maps to where fish would be holding within the water. Can also physically look at the water and experiment as well, i.e., pools at the bottom of falls, riffles, slower water/pools at the tail end of fast-moving water, etc. What I'm a complete noob at is reading geological maps. I have a medical background so I know about pH but not a clue as to how it pertains to water and trout habitat. I also need to read about rock beds and soil compositions. Is there a specific map that would show where mine water empties into?

 

[JasonC]

Sal, that's a fantastic map! Thanks for sharing

 

[tomgamber]

I have that Higbee map on my wall. That map for planning at home and a DeLorme State map in the vehicle will let you find more than enough water to keep you busy. Others have their favorite maps. Being willing blow a whole day just walking and following "water that looks good" works too. Good luck.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Maybe a decade or so ago (?) American Angler had an article on reading topographic maps and what features mean to trout streams and how to read them. I believe I saved the issue because the article was so good. I tried to find it online but only this one lone image came up.
Tonight when I get home I'll see if I can dig it up and take photos of it.

 

[afishinado]

Finding new wild trout streams is part of the challenge but I recommend you not get too caught up in the process.

I looked it up on the PFBC site, and there are 16,000 miles of wild trout streams listed as of today. These are streams that hold or at very least have recently held a natural reproducing population of wild trout.

Mix in some non-listed streams in that look like they may have promise, but 16,000 miles is a whole lotta water to work! :lol:

 

[Wild_Trouter]

Jason-

One guy that I really learned a lot from just by reading his posts here is "k-bob." That guy knows his rock formations, alkalinity, etc. Use the search feature at the bottom of the page and simply type in geology and start reading- especially if k-bob has commented on it. Hope this helps.

 

[sarce]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:

Maybe a decade or so ago (?) American Angler had an article on reading topographic maps and what features mean to trout streams and how to read them. I believe I saved the issue because the article was so good. I tried to find it online but only this one lone image came up. Tonight when I get home I'll see if I can dig it up and take photos of it.

Thanks - I would love to read that.

Interesting that they call out waterfalls as "unfishable". Of course you can't fish water flowing vertically but there's usually a big pool at the base of the falls, which is the kind of spot I like to seek out. And in their example they are implying flatter sections are better. I have always thought the exact opposite...

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Thanks - I would love to read that. Interesting that they call out waterfalls as "unfishable". Of course you can't fish water flowing vertically but there's usually a big pool at the base of the falls, which is the kind of spot I like to seek out. And in their example they are implying flatter sections are better. I have always thought the exact opposite...

I would agree with your assessment overall. However, I find that size abundance and species do find different niches in those situations.
For PA overall, high gradient generally means infertile and smaller, then leading to smaller fish. You will find bigger fish in the lowland areas or flatter sections, just because the trout dont need to work as hard to hold position thus spending less energy.
Brook trout love high oxygen and are often found in such sections of plunges and high gradient. I have found brown trout like "medium to slow" current. In those areas you are more likely to find them and they will be larger.

Completely unscientific and just anecdotal, but i have found it to be generally true none-the-less.

Uploading pics of the article now and Ill post them. Hope you enjoy it and I hope it helps someone.

Man flickr is slow today....

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I tried to capture the whole article and the captions. If you right click the image and open in a new tab it will enlarge for easier reading.

Credit:
American Angler
"Reading between the lines"
By: Ed Engle

Obviously there is more to it than just this, but i think this article captured some good things and people can learn from it if they never explored topo maps before.
Just remember GEOLOGY is just as important if not more than topography.

Good Luck!

 

[dryflyguy]

Man - I remember buying that old Higbee map, probably in the '70's.
Sent to Penn State to get it - for only a dollar if I recall correctly.
It was kinda tough to use though, because there were no roads on it at all. So, you had to cross reference it with a highway map to try and figure out how to get to the streams.
Haven't used it for a long time now. But I think it's still stashed in the attic somewhere

I didn't see it for sale anywhere for quite a while after my purchase
Apparently the original plates had been lost, and it couldn't be reproduced.
Until a new method came out to start printing them again.
Then I saw they were selling newer ones - which were said to be a lot nicer - for about $20

 

[tomgamber]

Mine is probably 3ft by 5ft at least. my wife had it framed and it takes up the whole back wall in my little office.

 

[salvelinus]

I have a complete set of PA State Forest maps. A very good resource when fishing in these areas. You can request a complete set from the DCNR or get individual maps at the respective state forest headquarters. They're free.

 

[JasonC]

I was reading the PowerPoint that explains how the streams make it onto the list. And yes there are almost 16000 miles of wild trout streams listed in PA, and those are only the ones that are listed :O I was surprised only 3 streams made it on the list as wild rainbow streams. This begs the question which I’m assuming the answer to be no but referring to the experts, are there aspects of a stream that differ to accompany a wild rainbow population as opposed to wild brown or brook trout?

 

[sarce]

Sal, thanks for taking the time to find and post that. It is a good article and now with context I can see the point they are making. My concern would be a beginner in PA reading that and thinking, "flatter = better" when in PA that can sometimes mean degraded valley streams. In reality there are more factors than just the spacing of contour lines (I know you know that) but it is still a very good idea to learn how to read topo maps.

I tend to associate steeper streams with easier fishing due to more fast water, and seek those out on the map. And one stream in particular has a very steep section with big rock slabs and plunge pools with huge browns living there...downstream it flattens out and becomes pocket water with no big fish. But I have also fished slow streams with nice undercuts and some pretty big fish as well so I can understand that point.

 

[JasonC]

That’s one aspect I’ve been keying in on is gradient and I’ve selectively targeted streams with faster water. Although the streams I’m checking out this wrecking are relatively flat.

 

[HopBack]

I was reading the PowerPoint that explains how the streams make it onto the list. And yes there are almost 16000 miles of wild trout streams listed in PA, and those are only the ones that are listed :O I was surprised only 3 streams made it on the list as wild rainbow streams. This begs the question which I’m assuming the answer to be no but referring to the experts, are there aspects of a stream that differ to accompany a wild rainbow population as opposed to wild brown or brook trout?

The list you were looking at was likely the Class A list which is the only list that includes the type of trout that make up that biomass.

The natural reproduction list only tells you that they found wild trout present. There are definitely more than 3 wild rainbow streams in PA and I believe there are more than 3 Class A wild rainbow streams.

See Mikes post about spawning rainbows for an explanation as to why there are not more rainbow trout streams in our state.

 

[JasonC]

Correct, it was the Class A list that was presented.