Why streams with no harvest?

I'm almost on board with you Kev. How about something like.....

1. Class A & B streams managed as:
* Open March 1 - October 15
* 2 fish limit during the open season
* Slot limit applied... harvest permitted 9" - 15"
* Open to all methods of angling

Class C and lower (basically, stocked waters)
* Open year round
* March 1 - October 15 regular season, 4 per day, 9" or larger
* October 16 - February 28 off season, 2 fish per day with a slot limit of 9" - 16". Off chance there's larger transient fish that spawn in said stream, they should be released.
* Open to all methods of angling

That keeps tons of water open to fish year-round while protecting the valuable resource of wild trout. The 9" minimum size should also keep most ST from being creeled.

Approaching things that way may inspire the clubs or PFBC to add some additional marginal water to the stockings for fall/winter angling. Spreading out pressure isn't a bad idea.
 
I would support any and all of that.

One problem is that those who keep fish look at it as, "I can't fish there because I keep fish" and they will tell you as much and they are the majority.

That transient breeder would be impossible to enforce although its a good idea. Again, ignorance is bliss for those who don't care to be educated.

I think the only thing I have any problem with is the absence of artificial lures only areas. If anyone thinks 5% was a high catch mortality, compare bait to artificial survival rates. I have never not been able to safely retrieve a fly from a fish. I see bloody gill and throats every time i see natural food/bait being used.

And yes, they'll tell you they "aren't allowed" to fish there either. They are. They choose not to. And that is the purpose of them.

I'll add that when I lived in Idaho, many wild trout waters had a limit of 2/day and even a few urban put and take lakes had 2/day limits to prevent 5 guys from coming in in one morning, taking a 6 fish limit and removing 10% of the 300 fish they stocked the day before. Those wild streams with the 2/day limit were not stocked over.
 
krayfish2 wrote:
I'm almost on board with you Kev. How about something like.....

1. Class A & B streams managed as:
* Open March 1 - October 15
* 2 fish limit during the open season
* Slot limit applied... harvest permitted 9" - 15"
* Open to all methods of angling

Class C and lower (basically, stocked waters)
* Open year round
* March 1 - October 15 regular season, 4 per day, 9" or larger
* October 16 - February 28 off season, 2 fish per day with a slot limit of 9" - 16". Off chance there's larger transient fish that spawn in said stream, they should be released.
* Open to all methods of angling

That keeps tons of water open to fish year-round while protecting the valuable resource of wild trout. The 9" minimum size should also keep most ST from being creeled.

Approaching things that way may inspire the clubs or PFBC to add some additional marginal water to the stockings for fall/winter angling. Spreading out pressure isn't a bad idea.
Click to expand...

Man that would be awesome! I think you nailed it!
 
TomG,

If this is in place...

Class C and lower (basically, stocked waters)
* Open year round
* March 1 - October 15 regular season, 4 per day, 9" or larger
* October 16 - February 28 off season, 2 fish per day with a slot limit of 9" - 16". Off chance there's larger transient fish that spawn in said stream, they should be released.

It's likely that any transient fish coming in to spawn would exceed the 9 - 16 slot range.... thus being released by the law abiding angler and additional enforcement not needed.

BTW, I did forget to say that the premium wild trout A/B waters would be closed October - March.

Also, "all methods of angling" covers spin and fly. Centerpinning is an arrestable offense :) 50% of the A/B water should be designated artificial lures with single
 
kray,

That's not a bad at all, but I still think the distinction between sets of regulations should be stocked vs. unstocked, not based on class. There are still streams out there that are fine wild trout fisheries, are not stocked, but also have not been surveyed for decades (if at all to determine class) and they shouldn't be allowed to slip through the cracks.

Kev
 
Krayfish,

I would revise the first part to include tributaries of Class A and B streams - there are a lot of Class C/D wild trout tribs that are unstocked that are important to the health of the better populations in the larger waters they flow into.

I'm close to supporting what you're proposing. Why Mar 1 though? it's too early of an opening to protect eggs in gravel. Too late to be limited to protecting spawning fish. Instead of a closure from end of spawn until hatch-out I'd rather there just be a no wading rule implemented.

If you went the route of the Class A&B waters being treated differently than lower class wild trout waters, I wonder if it would make sense to just lower the class A threshold to bring all the class B's into the fold. Basically just a single blanket classification that says "These are significant wild trout waters".
 
sarce wrote:
Why Mar 1 though? it's too early of an opening to protect eggs in gravel. Too late to be limited to protecting spawning fish. Instead of a closure from end of spawn until hatch-out I'd rather there just be a no wading rule implemented.
Click to expand...

So to tie this into the original topic.....

How, would no-wading periods improve the average size of fish in Spring? Which if any streams would it improve? I think it is unreasonable to close a stream to wading from the time eggs are dropped until the time the fry emerge from gravel.

I'm, sorry but I think that aside from figuring out a reasonable creel/size limit and open season, virtually every other regulation falls into the "feel good" or "WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING!" categories. That definitely includes no-wading, and as time has passed, I'm close to considering artificial lures regs the same way. They stem more from our over-protectiveness than any real tangible purpose or goal. Again, if you can point out a stream that needs wading to be banned, we can discuss that. However in the context of Spring Creek I think that is going to far, and think that is applicable to the overwhelming majority of streams.

Like I said I've become very wary of overbearing regulations.
 
Close 10/15 - 3/1. No wade, no fishing. Should protect spawn and hatch out. Any wild rainbow populations get cheated with that process but there are very few of those in our state. If the state can identify a high-quality wild rainbow population, maybe that can go under a different type of rule set
 
krayfish2 wrote:

Also, "all methods of angling" covers spin and fly.
Click to expand...

Understood, In case I didn't make it clear, in spite of the attitude of the majority, I'm all for excluding bait.

Good point about the transient fish being larger. Hadn't gone there.
 
I fish penns creek on a regular basis and can attest to there seeming to be a lot of small trout anymore. What it is who knows or maybe I am just to dumb anymore to catch them. Damn bait slobs anyhow lets just close the season may 1st to first day of trout season.
 
That's your solution? Try less next time. LoL
 

Haha
 
This thread wins the cabin fever award for the year!! Who would have thought there would have been so much interest in harvesting trout :lol:
 
HopBack wrote:
This thread wins the cabin fever award for the year!! Who would have thought there would have been so much interest in harvesting trout :lol:
Click to expand...

If we're successful in getting all these regs passed we can have another primo Cabin Fever thread season in May, since the streams will be closed then. Nice!
 
Hey Hookjaw Since you also see the smaller fish thing on Penns, what has changed on that stream in the last ten years? I can tell you every time I drive down the dirt rd below Coburn the guides have their clients standing in the creek everywhere especially at the better time of year.
As big as Penns is you wouldn't think that the pressure would have much of an effect but it seems like it has. The fishing above Coburn also used to be great during the spring hatches. Nice fish and lots of them. Mostly wild. Not anymore. It really is too bad.

krayfish and others ...I too would like to see some changes. And closing during spawn until springtime seems reasonable. Even if only to give the fish a break from the constant stress. It certainly could not hurt.
 
So.... closing exceptional wild fisheries from October 15 through the end of February somehow is translated into "closing all trout fishing on May 1st". What am I missing because that's not what was typed. If 75% of trout streams were left open all year-round, that's not enough for you? Sounds like spoiled kids or the entitled speaking. "I don't care if it's good for the fishery, I want what I want" (insert tantrum).
 
krayfish-I'm surprised he did not respond with "okay Boomer"
 
I know there's a lot of guys that fish all 12 months. I also know that some will say "I paid for the license, I'm going to fish". Paying for a hunting license doesn't permit me to shoot deer 12 months out of the year. I'm allowed to shoot deer during their specific season....a season that is closed during the breeding season. Just sayin.

If the state contains 150,000 miles of trout water (made up number), and 50,000 miles were closed October - March, that still leaves 2/3 of the streams open for fishing year-round. Where's the problem? Run it like that for 3-4 years, see the results and then tell PFBC if you want to change things back. I'm betting that the improvement to the fishery will have you asking to keep regs in place. It might also be a good selling point for landowners knowing that their land will only be overrun by fishermen for half the year instead of the entire year. Might be able to to get some additional stream access as a by product.

 
krayfish2 wrote:
I'm almost on board with you Kev. How about something like.....

1. Class A & B streams managed as:
* Open March 1 - October 15
* 2 fish limit during the open season
* Slot limit applied... harvest permitted 9" - 15"
* Open to all methods of angling

Class C and lower (basically, stocked waters)
* Open year round
* March 1 - October 15 regular season, 4 per day, 9" or larger
* October 16 - February 28 off season, 2 fish per day with a slot limit of 9" - 16". Off chance there's larger transient fish that spawn in said stream, they should be released.
* Open to all methods of angling

That keeps tons of water open to fish year-round while protecting the valuable resource of wild trout. The 9" minimum size should also keep most ST from being creeled.

Approaching things that way may inspire the clubs or PFBC to add some additional marginal water to the stockings for fall/winter angling. Spreading out pressure isn't a bad idea.
Click to expand...

Closing wild trout streams (Class A &B) to all fishing for close to five months in the fall / winter would pretty much push all trout anglers to special regulation open all-year round like Spring Creek and Penns causing them to be even more heavily fished than ever.

Are also looking to rescind all special regulation stream designations and just allow trout fishing in stocked streams? Very few stocked streams hold a fishable population of trout in the fall winter. The ones that do are special reg ones and that would overcrowd them.

I have never seen any data or study supporting a cold season fishing ban on a coldwater classed fish like trout with very light fishing pressure at that time will yield some huge benefit for fishing. But, there is plenty of data about high mortality rates for trout in warm/hot seasons, though. Therefore allowing trout fishing in July and August in many streams will stress and kill a lot more fish than in any winter month. So if your true purpose to save the trout why not ban fishing where it is known to have the most harmful effects?

My suggestion K-fish since you never fish in winter is to buy some heavy skivvies and handwarmers and get out there and fish instead of thinking of ways to limit fishing opportunities for those that fish and enjoy fishing in the cold weather season.

Just my opinion.

 
I think what every conservation/wild trout fisherman in this state struggles with is that the state is not managed from a "wild-trout-first" perspective. It simply isn't, and no amount of fish and boat commission propaganda can convince me otherwise. Everything revolves around the stocking/harvest of stocked fish.

You couldn't have seasons and harvest the way they are currently if the focus was on wild trout. Not in a state with so many anglers and so much accessible water.

The chances of anything changing from a regulation standpoint to reinforce wild trout populations are about 0%, so I'm not sure we should get all wound up about theoretical season changes.
 
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