bikerfish
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really?
really?
T
troutbert
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I found the following quote in an old history of Clinton County.
"In 1868, an act was passed incorporating the Clinton & Potter county Navigation Company, the object of which was to improve and clear Young Womans Creek for running down logs."
I've come across similar accounts about clearing and "improving" streams for running logs down the creeks. So, in many cases the actual stream channel you are fishing may be a "vestige of history."
"In 1868, an act was passed incorporating the Clinton & Potter county Navigation Company, the object of which was to improve and clear Young Womans Creek for running down logs."
I've come across similar accounts about clearing and "improving" streams for running logs down the creeks. So, in many cases the actual stream channel you are fishing may be a "vestige of history."
k-bob
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Dwight The free online links to this article by TR Cox (1980) are not working, so I'll take the liberty of quoting from its intro... sounds like there was competition to move logs in streams in NC PA circa 150 years ago:
"... a large force of men went to work and in the spring of 1850 drove more than two million feet of logs down the Moshannon and the West Branch to the temporary boom at Williamsport..."
The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 104, No. 3, Jul., 1980
"Transition in the Woods Drivers, Raftsmen, and the Emergence of Modern Timbering in Pennsylvania"
"The Allegheny Plateau became a stronghold of farmer-raftsmen. Valuable white pines were abundant in Clearfield, Elk, Cameron and Centre counties, but the soil tended to be poor and the growing season short. The results were predictable. Small sawmills grew up in the area; two contemporary observors estimated that some 400 were in operation in the region by 1850.8 Rafts filled the streams each spring (and sometimes during fall freshets as well). One raftsman later recalled that in the heyday of rafting, while going down the West Branch one "was touching oars with other rafts every five minutes. . . ."
Another estimated that "easily" 30,000 men rafted on the West Branch each year.10 Individual raftsmen often made several trips in a season, and there do not appear to have been enough rafts on the river to employ so many. Still, large numbers were engaged. The Clinton Republican reported that in 1857 there were 500 rafts tied up at Lock Haven at one time, to say nothing of those elsewhere on the river.11 Each raft normally carried a six-man crew; some carried more. If one includes men who worked in the woods getting out logs as well as those who handled them on the river and downstream, surely more than 30,000 were involved.12
The Susquehanna Boom introduced a rival system to the West Branch, a system based on free-floating log drives that had been perfected in Maine.13 It was a more labor-efficient means of getting out logs than was rafting and yielded them in numbers that raftsmen could never hope to match.14 The boom itself, repeatedly enlarged, came to have a capacity of 300 million feet of logs. Clearly, it made large steam sawmills practical in Williamsport and vicinity. Existing data are insufficient to pinpoint the savings involved, but lumbermen quickly came to recognize that, as the Clinton ^Democrat put it, log drives and booms were "the cheapest way in which mills can be stocked."
It was a key development, for the technology for high speed sawing already existed and canals and, soon after, railroads were present to haul the cut to market. Once a large, inexpensive source of logs was at hand, mass production could soon follow?and follow it did, for 1843 to l%54 was a period of prosperity in which businessmen eagerly seized such opportunities. More than just the economic efficiencies of the new system threatened raftsmen. Drives filled the streams with a churning mass of logs that made rafting more difficult and dangerous than ever and occasionally, when jams developed, barred the passage of rafts altogether. In addition, with their large fixed investments in booms, steam sawmills, and other facilities, down-stream operators soon began buying up extensive tracts of timberland as a means of protecting their interests. In so doing, they barred farmer-raftsmen from access to some of the finest of the stands on which their livelihoods depended. Conflict between the two groups could have been readily predicted.
The first steps toward building the Susquehanna Boom came in 1836 when John Leigh ton came from Maine to investigate the West Branch's potential for lumbering. He recognized that the miles-long stretch of deep, quiet water just above Williamsport was ideal for a massive boom. Such a structure could collect logs from the vast area of the Allegheny Plateau drained by the upper West Branch and thus do for Williamsport what the Penobscot boom had done for Bangor, Maine. At first Leighton could not interest financial backers in the project; but in 1844 he persuaded James H. Perkins, then living in Lincoln, Maine, to visit Williamsport. Convinced by what he saw, Perkins took over as the main force behind efforts to get a boom constructed there. In 1846, Perkins and Leighton joined with John Dubois and other lumbermen of the Williamsport area to charter the Susquehanna Boom Company. Even then there were doubts; no actual construction took place until almost the end of 1849.
Drives soon followed. The first apparently took place in May 1850.19 A violent storm four years before had blown down a large stand of timber along Moshannon Creek, a tributary of the West Branch. The downed trees were too broken to furnish the long logs needed for successful rafting, so the owners of the timber (the Portland Lumber Company of Maine) arranged for an experienced log driver from Maine, J. B. Wing, to cut the timber into the short, sixteen-foot sawlogs that were best for driving and to float them out on the spring floods. After some delay, Wing and a large force of men went to work and in the spring of 1850 drove more than two million feet of logs down the Moshannon and the West Branch to the temporary boom at Williamsport.
A local newspaperman described the drive as it passed Lock Haven on May 19 as "a rare, a proud, a beautiful sight."21 If raftsmen expected what they called "log floating" to cease once the salvage operations on Moshannon Creek were complete, they were soon to learn their error. Wing's successful drive demonstrated that the West Branch was not, as previously thought, ill suited for driving; and the temporary boom at Williamsport proved clearly superior to the boatmen who had previously been used on the river to gather loose logs floating downstream. The Susquehanna Boom Company moved quickly to construct a permanent boom. At the heart of the new structure was a series of large, stone-filled cribs down the middle of the river. Connecting these cribs were long logs attached by heavy chain couplings. At the upstream end a sheer boom was added which could be extended across the river to divert logs into the enclosed area and then withdrawn once the drive was over so that other traffic could pass. At the downstream end, there was a sorting works where logs were separated according to owner's brands and made into temporary rafts for transit to the appropriate nearby sawmills. Others followed the Susquehanna Boom Company's lead. By 1851 permanent booms were in operation, not only at Williamsport but at Lock Haven and near the mouth of Pine Creek as well."
"... a large force of men went to work and in the spring of 1850 drove more than two million feet of logs down the Moshannon and the West Branch to the temporary boom at Williamsport..."
The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 104, No. 3, Jul., 1980
"Transition in the Woods Drivers, Raftsmen, and the Emergence of Modern Timbering in Pennsylvania"
"The Allegheny Plateau became a stronghold of farmer-raftsmen. Valuable white pines were abundant in Clearfield, Elk, Cameron and Centre counties, but the soil tended to be poor and the growing season short. The results were predictable. Small sawmills grew up in the area; two contemporary observors estimated that some 400 were in operation in the region by 1850.8 Rafts filled the streams each spring (and sometimes during fall freshets as well). One raftsman later recalled that in the heyday of rafting, while going down the West Branch one "was touching oars with other rafts every five minutes. . . ."
Another estimated that "easily" 30,000 men rafted on the West Branch each year.10 Individual raftsmen often made several trips in a season, and there do not appear to have been enough rafts on the river to employ so many. Still, large numbers were engaged. The Clinton Republican reported that in 1857 there were 500 rafts tied up at Lock Haven at one time, to say nothing of those elsewhere on the river.11 Each raft normally carried a six-man crew; some carried more. If one includes men who worked in the woods getting out logs as well as those who handled them on the river and downstream, surely more than 30,000 were involved.12
The Susquehanna Boom introduced a rival system to the West Branch, a system based on free-floating log drives that had been perfected in Maine.13 It was a more labor-efficient means of getting out logs than was rafting and yielded them in numbers that raftsmen could never hope to match.14 The boom itself, repeatedly enlarged, came to have a capacity of 300 million feet of logs. Clearly, it made large steam sawmills practical in Williamsport and vicinity. Existing data are insufficient to pinpoint the savings involved, but lumbermen quickly came to recognize that, as the Clinton ^Democrat put it, log drives and booms were "the cheapest way in which mills can be stocked."
It was a key development, for the technology for high speed sawing already existed and canals and, soon after, railroads were present to haul the cut to market. Once a large, inexpensive source of logs was at hand, mass production could soon follow?and follow it did, for 1843 to l%54 was a period of prosperity in which businessmen eagerly seized such opportunities. More than just the economic efficiencies of the new system threatened raftsmen. Drives filled the streams with a churning mass of logs that made rafting more difficult and dangerous than ever and occasionally, when jams developed, barred the passage of rafts altogether. In addition, with their large fixed investments in booms, steam sawmills, and other facilities, down-stream operators soon began buying up extensive tracts of timberland as a means of protecting their interests. In so doing, they barred farmer-raftsmen from access to some of the finest of the stands on which their livelihoods depended. Conflict between the two groups could have been readily predicted.
The first steps toward building the Susquehanna Boom came in 1836 when John Leigh ton came from Maine to investigate the West Branch's potential for lumbering. He recognized that the miles-long stretch of deep, quiet water just above Williamsport was ideal for a massive boom. Such a structure could collect logs from the vast area of the Allegheny Plateau drained by the upper West Branch and thus do for Williamsport what the Penobscot boom had done for Bangor, Maine. At first Leighton could not interest financial backers in the project; but in 1844 he persuaded James H. Perkins, then living in Lincoln, Maine, to visit Williamsport. Convinced by what he saw, Perkins took over as the main force behind efforts to get a boom constructed there. In 1846, Perkins and Leighton joined with John Dubois and other lumbermen of the Williamsport area to charter the Susquehanna Boom Company. Even then there were doubts; no actual construction took place until almost the end of 1849.
Drives soon followed. The first apparently took place in May 1850.19 A violent storm four years before had blown down a large stand of timber along Moshannon Creek, a tributary of the West Branch. The downed trees were too broken to furnish the long logs needed for successful rafting, so the owners of the timber (the Portland Lumber Company of Maine) arranged for an experienced log driver from Maine, J. B. Wing, to cut the timber into the short, sixteen-foot sawlogs that were best for driving and to float them out on the spring floods. After some delay, Wing and a large force of men went to work and in the spring of 1850 drove more than two million feet of logs down the Moshannon and the West Branch to the temporary boom at Williamsport.
A local newspaperman described the drive as it passed Lock Haven on May 19 as "a rare, a proud, a beautiful sight."21 If raftsmen expected what they called "log floating" to cease once the salvage operations on Moshannon Creek were complete, they were soon to learn their error. Wing's successful drive demonstrated that the West Branch was not, as previously thought, ill suited for driving; and the temporary boom at Williamsport proved clearly superior to the boatmen who had previously been used on the river to gather loose logs floating downstream. The Susquehanna Boom Company moved quickly to construct a permanent boom. At the heart of the new structure was a series of large, stone-filled cribs down the middle of the river. Connecting these cribs were long logs attached by heavy chain couplings. At the upstream end a sheer boom was added which could be extended across the river to divert logs into the enclosed area and then withdrawn once the drive was over so that other traffic could pass. At the downstream end, there was a sorting works where logs were separated according to owner's brands and made into temporary rafts for transit to the appropriate nearby sawmills. Others followed the Susquehanna Boom Company's lead. By 1851 permanent booms were in operation, not only at Williamsport but at Lock Haven and near the mouth of Pine Creek as well."
T
troutbert
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Interesting article.
"At the heart of the new structure was a series of large, stone-filled cribs down the middle of the river."
You can still see those structures in the West Branch Susquehanna above Williamsport.
Upriver, you can also see iron rings in rocks along the West Branch that were used to tie up their rafts.
"At the heart of the new structure was a series of large, stone-filled cribs down the middle of the river."
You can still see those structures in the West Branch Susquehanna above Williamsport.
Upriver, you can also see iron rings in rocks along the West Branch that were used to tie up their rafts.
D
dryflyguy
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In that same area, there are remains of a large aqueduct at the end of pine creek. The canal that ran along the west branch crossed over the creek there , on it's way to lock haven
Swattie87
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Dug this up from the vault. It's an oldie, but a goodie, and I remembered this thread distinctly while planning this outing and taking these pictures.
A native PA history lesson to pair with some native PA Brookies. The graffiti is a shame, but it's amazing how structurally sound the tunnels are over 50 years after being abandoned. The fan houses are rusting and falling apart, but the tunnels themselves are in impeccable shape.
Made for a nice late Fall Sunday in Penn's Woods, and sufficiently scratched the itch to enable me to endure my annual two week fishing hiatus that is rifle deer season.
A native PA history lesson to pair with some native PA Brookies. The graffiti is a shame, but it's amazing how structurally sound the tunnels are over 50 years after being abandoned. The fan houses are rusting and falling apart, but the tunnels themselves are in impeccable shape.
Made for a nice late Fall Sunday in Penn's Woods, and sufficiently scratched the itch to enable me to endure my annual two week fishing hiatus that is rifle deer season.
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Baron
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What a bunch of old F - -ts. I love it . you're all walking and talking history books. I grew up in and out of an old Bucks County dairy barn and you can visit it by typing www.historicstonebrook.com. You See my brother Scott and his wife and family that now run the old farm as a wedding venue. I'm to week to go on but it was a Angeny Barn (famous barn building family) and typical of Bucks County Barns as it had fully stone end cap walls and very little wood.
I hope this string continues and that allot more of your discovered treasures are shared here.
I hope this string continues and that allot more of your discovered treasures are shared here.
Baron
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What a bunch of old Facts, lol.
gulfgreyhound
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Anyone hear from Osprey lately? GG
Dave_W
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One of the risks of refreshing old threads such as this one is that we see the writings of individuals (some fondly remembered) who have long since moved on and no longer participate in our community.
This can cause confusion for some newer posters who then try to engage with the old poster who is no longer active.
This can cause confusion for some newer posters who then try to engage with the old poster who is no longer active.
UncleShorty
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Does a flask of 12 year old bourbon count as a historical artifact?
When Agnes hammered PA in '72 I was overseas in the Army. In 1977 while studying at WACC I walked up a destroyed railroad to a deep hole on Lycoming Creek. I caught 5 stockies on 5 casts. (This was before I discovered wild trout.)
The rail bed was as close as I've come to a historic site while fishing.
I've never gone 5 for 5 again. But great memories...
When Agnes hammered PA in '72 I was overseas in the Army. In 1977 while studying at WACC I walked up a destroyed railroad to a deep hole on Lycoming Creek. I caught 5 stockies on 5 casts. (This was before I discovered wild trout.)
The rail bed was as close as I've come to a historic site while fishing.
I've never gone 5 for 5 again. But great memories...
FarmerDave
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... but they are short engagements.
Sincerely,
Captain Obvious
Sincerely,
Captain Obvious
wbranch
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There are remnants of a canal on the walking path side of the Tulpehocken. There used to be a rail line that ran from Scranton, PA to Codosia, NY. It used to cross the WB Delaware just below the Methodist Pool. It was the O&W line and here is a picture of the area from probably over fifty years ago.
All that remains now are the old concrete bridge bases on either side of the river. The abutment picture was taken a few days after the flood of June 2006. The high flow was 45,000 cfs. The structure of my cabin didn't move but 38" of water coursed through the cabin. Luckily at the time I had my drift boat chained to a small trailer. The high water lifted both the drift boat and the trailer it was chained to and took it about 150' down river. Lucky for me the boat and trailer would up on one side of a huge pine tree and the smaller trailer on the other side.
https://www.paflyfish.com/home/paflyfi1/xoops_data/caches/xoops_cache/2548_5fbec088e4704.jpg
All that remains now are the old concrete bridge bases on either side of the river. The abutment picture was taken a few days after the flood of June 2006. The high flow was 45,000 cfs. The structure of my cabin didn't move but 38" of water coursed through the cabin. Luckily at the time I had my drift boat chained to a small trailer. The high water lifted both the drift boat and the trailer it was chained to and took it about 150' down river. Lucky for me the boat and trailer would up on one side of a huge pine tree and the smaller trailer on the other side.
https://www.paflyfish.com/home/paflyfi1/xoops_data/caches/xoops_cache/2548_5fbec088e4704.jpg
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larkmark
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WB, I fished that pool a few times and always wondered about those abutments. Now I know. I think people still ride motorcycles on that old rail line all the way to Scranton. I talked to a couple guys last year up there and they said they do.
wbranch
Well-known member
Landmark wrote;
"I think people still ride motorcycles on that old rail line all the way to Scranton. I talked to a couple guys last year up there and they said they do."
Yes, that is correct. There is a small private campground right below the 191 bridge and a bunch of guys there have 4 wheelers and ride that old RR bed for miles and miles. After the flood of 2006 the only way I could get to my cabin was to get on that old RR bed about four miles west of my cabin and drive to the end right at the PA side of the abutment.
"I think people still ride motorcycles on that old rail line all the way to Scranton. I talked to a couple guys last year up there and they said they do."
Yes, that is correct. There is a small private campground right below the 191 bridge and a bunch of guys there have 4 wheelers and ride that old RR bed for miles and miles. After the flood of 2006 the only way I could get to my cabin was to get on that old RR bed about four miles west of my cabin and drive to the end right at the PA side of the abutment.
Dave_W
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Cool - I've wondered about those concrete structures on the Delaware as well.
Baron
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Dave same on lehigh right before hitting the Delaware.
JerryC
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After Hurricane Floyd dumped a ton of rain on the area and pretty much re-arranged the Wissahickon. I was walking along the bank below the Margaree Dam and I started finding buttons of different shapes and sizes. I found a button collector, yep, people do that, and she dated them to the early and middle 1800s. I checked the local records looking for a textile mill. Eventually, I found out the mill that was powered by the dam was a paper mill and in that era, paper was from rags, old clothing etc. The buttons were removed and stored. Here's some pictures of what I found.
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Baron
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