Trout beads

[PennKev]

Cold wrote:


PatrickC, I obviously don't. It just blows my mind the lengths people will go to in order to rationalize, distract from, and deny the realities of the things they do while insisting that its okay. I think the degree of protest each time this comes up is indicative of how those that do it, deep down, know it's kinda lousy.

But if that's what they need to do to catch a fish, more power to 'em I guess. I've never needed to catch a fish so bad that I'd reduce myself to such tactics.

Your comments show more about your own needs and insecurities than they do of others.

 

[PatrickC]

Cold: You've said your peace. Let it rest. Gotta be something we can discuss that doesn't require a wrestle match. ;-)

Though I like a good wrestling match. Speaking of which, your boys from PSU will be dethroned at the B1Gs this weekend :-D

 

[streamerguy]

PatrickC wrote:

streamerguy wrote:
I was quite disappointed that there wasn't a spot burning thread this winter, but beads, black stoneflies, and DHALO discussions are nice ways to change it up.

You just SPOT BURNED stoneflies. Way to go. Now everyone will be using them and they won't work for me any more :-(

Oh fudge. Sorry to burn your secret fly. Now everyone will flock to DHALOs to fish moffitt stonefly patterns.......over redds......at night......with "6x" :lol:

 

[Cold]

obviously.

whereas some of us who would stand in 35 degree water for ten hours a day for six days just to catch ONE wild sea run Steelhead rather than a bunch of lake run hatchery steelies, probably would.

each unto their own huh ?

If they only way you can get 'em is to snag 'em, I guess I don't need a fish that bad...it'd be more of an accomplishment, to me, to spend that time swinging a streamer to them and not catching one than dredging a bead and snagging...I just don't place that much personal validation on catching a fish that I need to get one By Any Means Necessary.

To each his or her own, though, I guess.

 

[AkDan76]

Cold come up here once let me show you otherwise! Id guess 70% or more of my fish are not hooked outside the gums, if i had to keep a tally id bet that numbers much higher. Outside the lips are guys running to far off the bead. To close they wont bite!


The caveat i stated to begin with is juviniles. They still take the bead but dont have the mouth io inhale the setup. This is the reason i wont go past 1".

Either way to each their own. Crucify me now but the best walleye rig going is a 6wt with an ice reel off a float tube with a night crawler. Spent many days hammering eyes on metro lakes in Mn doing just this!

 

[Kill3ducks1deer]

I hate fuzzballs and real eggs cause way to many deep hooks to justify using(on the fly or spin). I have never hooked a trout outside of the mouth using trout beads, and I have never hooked a trout deep in it's throat using them. I have though managed to snag trout on size 16 hooks using a salmon eggs that covered the hook and hooked way to many fish deep down that I had to end up keeping. I like them, less damage to the fish I tend to see, so whether someone says I am snagging or not I could care less, unless it's a WCO obviously.

Keep the hook about an inch away from the bead and you wont end up outside the mouth or in the stomach.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I don't mean to be a jerk, but is this an actual fly fishing tactic? I mean, this is a fly fishing website (debates about using foam beetles, etc. aside). I'm fairly ignorant on the use of trout beads, but is it not more of a hardware/meathead kind of tactic?

 

[Kill3ducks1deer]

I use them on my fly rod, I am not very picky when it comes to using just flies though. I don't see a difference from a nymph to trout beads. You drift them under an indicator, or not.

 

[AkDan76]

Ts, Ive never seen another user group pegging though im sure its done for steelies with hardware as well. The only folks i know doing it are with fly rods.

what im getting at with the eyes is im by no means a purist mentality, though its been 20+ years since i've float tubed those metro lakes. I remember another trip we bent over and slung 7/8 oz pixies on 8wts. We could lob them a long ways and we managed a pile of salmon that day.

For some of us its not about a label! The flip side to that is i also have multiple digits on gear for building bamboo rods and bamboo stashed in 3 rooms of the house.

We use a fly thats not far off from a wigglewart. Its a fish catching machine but is by no means what youd think if when i say fly and it doesnt behave like one would think either. Is the person who throws it any less than the guy throwing catskill dries?

Or the fella throwing large articulated single hook bunny leeches with the hook on the trailer? Fishing the swing its not uncommon to stick one inside out vs right side in! This is a hot fly up here. Notice where the hooks at....

http://www.alaskaflyfishinggoods.com/dolly-llama-flies/view-all-products.html



The benefit to running beads is two fold. More fish and when done properly less lethal hookups!

 

[geebee]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
I don't mean to be a jerk, but is this an actual fly fishing tactic? I mean, this is a fly fishing website (debates about using foam beetles, etc. aside). I'm fairly ignorant on the use of trout beads, but is it not more of a hardware/meathead kind of tactic?

yes and no.

out West they are used extensively by fly guides, but the butchers tend to use sacks of roe on spinning gear or centre pins with a long weight 10-12" up the line.

 

[pcray1231]

Ts, Ive never seen another user group pegging though im sure its done for steelies with hardware as well. The only folks i know doing it are with fly rods.

Same here, though I'd add pinners. Center-pin's may not be common, but they do love them some beads.

Whether it's a "fly fishing" tactic is open for debate. A bead is not a fly. It certainly cannot, and should not, be used in a FFO area, for instance. But it is most commonly utilized on a fly rod.

Again, I know the law and wouldn't use them because of it, as yes, by the legal definition it is a rig, that by design, makes hooking outside the mouth more likely.

Morally, though, my separation between snaggers and anglers is this:

Snaggers: Have no intent to try to make the fish eat.
Anglers: Rely on making the fish eat.

It's that simple. As such, the beads/Moffitt system is morally ok in my book, and I'd advocate legalizing them.

 

[PatrickC]

pcray1231 wrote:

Snaggers: Have no intent to try to make the fish eat.
Anglers: Rely on making the fish eat.

Agree, and can I add... (this is for the masses pcray, not at all directed to you personally)

Folks new to fly fishing ride a fine line with this because THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW.

Walking along the stream judging everyone only says something poor about you (whom is doing the judging). Give folks the benefit of the doubt. Consider where they might be in the learning curve. Be the teacher you look back on fondly, not the one you wish you could go back and punch in the mouth. Think back 5, 10, 20, 30 years in your fly fishing and think about all of the things you do differently now... Fly fishing is a life time of learning and adventure. It's a marathon towards perfection, but perfection is never attained. Lead, don't be a jerk about this stuff. That's what makes all of this great!

 

[ColdBore]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
I don't mean to be a jerk, but is this an actual fly fishing tactic? I mean, this is a fly fishing website (debates about using foam beetles, etc. aside). I'm fairly ignorant on the use of trout beads, but is it not more of a hardware/meathead kind of tactic?

So where do you draw the line?

A plastic bead is no good, but a metal bead used as a head is fine?

A plastic bead is no good, but "natural stuff", made to look like the same type of fish food (egg) is fine?

What about tinsel, wire, and other metal/synthetic materials used on flies?

Should we say that a true fly can only be hair and feathers? Can we use synthetic thread to hold it all together?

What about trailing hooks, outside of the actual fly? Good? Not good?

Funny that guys need the latest graphite technology in a rod rather than traditional bamboo, throwing an equally high tech line, yet look at the tiny piece of fish attractant at the end of that line as somehow less than worthy, while wearing polarized sunglasses that allow them to see through the water, x-ray-style, all in a manner that the forefathers of flyfishing never dreamed of.

It's a thin line, and a slippery slope.

 

[geebee]

pcray1231 wrote:

Whether it's a "fly fishing" tactic is open for debate. A bead is not a fly. It certainly cannot, and should not, be used in a FFO area, for instance. But it is most commonly utilized on a fly rod.

define a fly....

 

[pcray1231]

define a fly....

A hook decorated to look like a food item.

 

[afishinado]

Trout beads are rigged in a different way. It not just about the definition of what constitutes a "fly" (see below).

Fish that take the bead are often hooked on the outside of their mouth with this rig. Also, it is more likely to snag fish with the bare hook set away from the "fly".

It's up to the individual to decide what and how they choose to fish.

 

[Biggie]

If you fish beads properly, very few hookups will be outside the mouth. This comes from someone that knows how to use them. Colds buddies don't know how to use beads. That's why they snag them.

 

[brookieaddict]

They do help with hookups on steel head , as for trout i have not noticed any difference. In special reg areas id leave them in the truck ya never know when a wco might call it plastic.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I'm going to start using a c4 bead so I can just blow the whole fishes head right off.

http://youtu.be/SDEaU9_hxKU

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Sal it counts as fly fishing as long as you do it on a fly rod!