Trout Beads - Legal in PA??

[Tigereye]

Playing devils advocate.....

"The essence of the argument is the bead is pegged in a relatively fixed position until a steelhead eats the bead. Then while the steelhead is holding the bead in it's mouth the angler lifts the rod to strike and the bead slides down the tippet and the hook impales into the inside, or sometimes, outside of the mouth."

Does not the trailer act on the same principle. Fish bite fly and is hooked by trailer upon angler lifting? If fish bites fly from side, fish may be hooked on side of mouth.

Also it is funny that PA regs do a poor job of defining snagging and foul hooking. They use words "Any part of the body". Mouth is part of the body. Using this definition a worm impaled on a hook is illegal

§ 63.9. Snatch fishing, foul hooking and snag fishing.

(a) It is unlawful to take or attempt to take fish by the methods known as snatch fishing, foul hooking or snag fishing or to take or attempt to take fish with a snagging hook or device which may be used to capture the fish by engaging the device in, to, with, or around any part of the body of the fish.


Contrary to the director's reply concerning the moffet of trout bead method, nowhere do regs it state "Inside the mouth". At least I couldn't find it.

I guess my point is that a lot of both fishing and hunting regulations are too vague which leaves interpretation up to Conservation Officers and enforcement is inconsistent across state.

 

[geebee]

from what I know from fishing in WA, is that the problem with allowing trout beads is that it makes it hard to spot snaggers - which continues to be a problem i hear up in NY streams.

 

[wbranch]

Tigereye wrote;

Does not the trailer act on the same principle. Fish bite fly and is hooked by trailer upon angler lifting? If fish bites fly from side, fish may be hooked on side of mouth.

I don't know and personally don't care. As I mentioned initially to you the pegged bead and your approach are entirely different. It is trying to compare apples and oranges.

We have beaten this horse to death and there remains two camps; those who think beading is anathema to fly fishing and those who, like me, don't. End of story.

 

[ryc72]

i am still amazed that 1 to 2 inches of tippet is capable of dividing a group this strongly. go figure.

 

[FarmerDave]

Tigereye wrote:
Playing devils advocate.....

Does not the trailer act on the same principle. Fish bite fly and is hooked by trailer upon angler lifting? If fish bites fly from side, fish may be hooked on side of mouth.

It can act that way, but no.

The trout can hit either fly and can be hooked by either fly. Sure, if the trout hits the lead fly, and it fails to hook, it can still be hooked by the trailer. But that is clearly not the intent.

Can I design the same with a single egg pattern made from glow bug yarn and a nymph trailer? Sure, but why would I want to cut the hook off of the lead fly?

With a pegged bead, you have a bead pegged to the line so it can slip, thus designed SPECIFICALLY so trailing hook finds a home.

And to reiterate what I said previously, I was only stating what the apparent reason was for the PF&BC. It does make sense if you care to think about it. It isn't the use of a bead, it is how it is used.

I really don't care. I guess I am not that desperate to catch fish, ESPECIALLY when I am not fishing for a meal.;-)

 

[FarmerDave]

ryc72 wrote:
i am still amazed that 1 to 2 inches of tippet is capable of dividing a group this strongly. go figure.

Apparently one of us still doesn't get it. Tippet length has nothing to do with it.

 

[wbranch]

Farmer dave wrote;

I really don't care. I guess I am not that desperate to catch fish, ESPECIALLY when I am not fishing for a meal.

Ha, I'm really not desperate at all and had caught dozens and dozens of steelhead before that fateful day when I went over to the Dark Side. Out of the multiple hundred steelhead I have caught I killed one for my wife so I guess I'm not fishing for a meal either.

Since I have learned pegged beads are illegal in PA I will just continue to catch them on nymphs and emerald shiner streamers like I did last week.

 

[ryc72]

farmer dave, precisely my point. thank you for confirming it.

 

[FarmerDave]

ryc72 wrote:
farmer dave, precisely my point. thank you for confirming it.

LOL! I suspected sarcasm, which is why I worded it that way. ;-)

 

[troutbert]

The Thread That Couldn't Die!!!

 

[bingsbaits]

found this while doing a little research....


The method you describe is often referred to as the "Trout Bead Method" or "the Moffet Method". It is not specifically addressed by those titles in our regulations.

PFBC Regulations state that fish may not be foul-hooked (hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth), and it is also illegal to intentionally attempt to snag or foul hook a fish. The following is the exact wording of the current Title 58 regulations.
§ 63.9. Snatch fishing, foul hooking and snag fishing.
(a) It is unlawful to take or attempt to take fish by the methods known as snatch fishing, foul hooking or snag fishing or to take or attempt to take fish with a snagging hook or device which may be used to capture the fish by engaging the device in, to, with, or around any part of the body of the fish. In addition, it is unlawful to possess a snagging hook while in the act of fishing. A snagging hook is a fishing device that is designed or modified to facilitate the snagging of fish. It is either of the following:
(1) A hook with other than a single barb which is weighted on the shank at any point below the eye of the hook and above the barbs thereof.
(2) A hook that is otherwise designed or modified so as to make the snagging of fish more likely when it is used than if a normal hook or fishing device were used.
Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth they are not currently considered legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

The beads do not make the terminal tackle a regulated item, it is the manner in which the fish would be hooked.

LTC Don Lauver
Assistant Director
Bureau of Law Enforcement
PA Fish and Boat Commission

 

[ryansheehan]

bingsbaits wrote:
found this while doing a little research....


The method you describe is often referred to as the "Trout Bead Method" or "the Moffet Method". It is not specifically addressed by those titles in our regulations.

PFBC Regulations state that fish may not be foul-hooked (hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth), and it is also illegal to intentionally attempt to snag or foul hook a fish. The following is the exact wording of the current Title 58 regulations.
§ 63.9. Snatch fishing, foul hooking and snag fishing.
(a) It is unlawful to take or attempt to take fish by the methods known as snatch fishing, foul hooking or snag fishing or to take or attempt to take fish with a snagging hook or device which may be used to capture the fish by engaging the device in, to, with, or around any part of the body of the fish. In addition, it is unlawful to possess a snagging hook while in the act of fishing. A snagging hook is a fishing device that is designed or modified to facilitate the snagging of fish. It is either of the following:
(1) A hook with other than a single barb which is weighted on the shank at any point below the eye of the hook and above the barbs thereof.
(2) A hook that is otherwise designed or modified so as to make the snagging of fish more likely when it is used than if a normal hook or fishing device were used.
Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth they are not currently considered legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

The beads do not make the terminal tackle a regulated item, it is the manner in which the fish would be hooked.

LTC Don Lauver
Assistant Director
Bureau of Law Enforcement
PA Fish and Boat Commission

Post #9, Ieft the phone number on though ;-)

 

[melvinp]

Wouldn't a bead set up be like a tube fly rig where the hook is not directly part of the Fly(Bait)Both could be kept from directly hitting the hook with either beads, bobber stops or pins.Understanding that a tube fly is meant to travel up the line but it wouldn't have to.Just saying.

 

[PennKev]

bingsbaits wrote:
PFBC Regulations state that fish may not be foul-hooked (hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth), and it is also illegal to intentionally attempt to snag or foul hook a fish.

Again, if that is the case, fish caught on plugs and other lures but are hooked in the outer jaw, under the jaw, in the head, etc should come under the same scrutiny.

In no way am I advocating banning or creating regulations against those lures. I'm merely pointing out how absurd it is to make a regulation that states fish must be hooked inside the mouth. The fact of the matter is that the number of "foul" hooking is just as high with dry flies as it is with pegged beads. Both are less likely to foul hook fish than a double fly rig.

I think the reason that this whole discussion bothers me is that I've seen so many steelhead covered from head to tail in broken off glo-bugs, that I cannot wrap my head around the idea that some people think beads are somehow worse or evil or whater.

If we outlawed flies and required beads only, I'm convinced that the overall number of foul hookings would be far less on the Erie tribs. Again in not saying this should actually happen, just pointing out the reality of the situation.

The law should specify that fish be caught by methods that cause a fish to intentionally strike a lure or bait and that the bait not be designed to hook fish in the soft part of the body. IMO, if those conditions are met, it's all good

 

[wbranch]

Part of the PFBC states;

Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth

Hmm, if that is the case how then do I hook so many inside the mouth the same as when I am using a traditional fly? I don't believe the pegged bead approach was ever "designed" to hook trout outside of the mouth. It is just a resultant of how the hook rotates when the angler sets the hook, some inside, some outside, but I have never hooked one anywhere but in the mouth meaning upper jaw, or lower mandible.

 

[afishinado]

Moffitt Angling Basics from Tightline Productions~T. Flagler on Vimeo.

 

[wbranch]

Afishinado,

Thanks very much for taking the time to find that video and posting it up. It was something I have never heard of and very interesting.

 

[FarmerDave]

wbranch wrote:
Part of the PFBC states;

Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth

Hmm, if that is the case how then do I hook so many inside the mouth the same as when I am using a traditional fly?

You are probably just bad at it. ;-)

 

[FarmerDave]

wbranch wrote:
Afishinado,

Thanks very much for taking the time to find that video and posting it up. It was something I have never heard of and very interesting.

Ditto that. Very interesting.

I have some 2/0 and 4/0 circle hooks at home and may need to give it a try. ;-)

Disclaimer: Second line was meant as a joke.

 

[wbranch]

Farmer Dave expounded;

You are probably just bad at it.

That probably explains it, my ineptitude is only over shadowed by my lack of experience. I'll practice more in New York and Ohio until I can become a true Moffet practitioner.