Trout Beads - Legal in PA??

[FarmerDave]

timbow wrote:
I tried burning them on a few weeks ago for an upcoming trip to Michigan, where they are definitely illegal if pegged. All I ended up with was melted beads, ruined hooks, and burnt fingers. What's the secret? I was trying to heat the hook and push it on and it seemed to cool down before I could get it pushed all the way on.

I never tried it, but if I did, I'd probably just put a dab of hot glue from a glue gun on a hook. The sticks apparently do come in different colors.

It might work better if you heat the hook, too.

Just an educated guess.

Then add a simple fly as a trailer. Problem solved?

 

[FarmerDave]

ryansheehan wrote:
I have a vision of a zebra midge style fly(only bigger) with a bead pegged above it. Then again I'm not a steelheader.........so there is that.

That was my first thought, but apparently the egg cannot be pegged.

 

[wbranch]

Hi Farmer Dave,

I guess the word "designed" troubled me. I doubt trout beads were ever developed solely with the intention of hooking steelhead outside the mouth. They were developed as an alternative to using real eggs so guys could fish with an artificial egg. The hooking of some fish on the outside of the mouth is pretty much just a resultant of the mechanics of how the hook turns/twists when the angler is lifting the rod tip to set the hook and the bead is sliding down the tippet.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

You could always wear the beads around your neck for good luck!

 

[wbranch]

Afishinado wrote;

"Trout beads hook fish on the outside of the mouth and, in Pennsylvania, any fish not hooked on the inside of the mouth has to be released."

I know I am splitting hairs but since I never keep any steelhead and immediately release them I think they should be permitted. I know how would a CO know I planned to release any bead caught fish.

I wonder if even having possession of them in your vest might constitute an illegal act just as having bait on your person in a FFO water. Like I mentioned yesterday while I (and lots of other guys) am disappointed I will just start tying just the simplest nymphs that will still catch those dopey steelhead and when I want to bead I'll just drive a few more miles east into NY or west into OH where beads are legal.

 

[afishinado]

While we are all legit fishermen, I can see how being allowed to have a rig with a bare hook on it can be useful for snaggers and have the potential to be abused. Not using trout beads is no big deal; we all have caught steelies fishing conventional flies.....the fish still take them.

 

[PennKev]

If the steelhead runs don't improve this may turn out to be merely academic.

 

[wbranch]

we all have caught steelies fishing conventional flies.....the fish still take them

Yes, exactly. Actually even after I started using beads I was starting to tie very simplistic nymphs. A few brown or black hackle barbules for a tail, a piece of black, or brown, "D" rib for the abdomen, and a hank of black or brown Haretron spun in a dubbing loop and palmered forward of the D rib for a robust thorax. If I get my materials out first and tie on a dozen tails I can knock one out about every six minutes.

This is the fly but to save time I no longer use the braided Mylar wingcase.

 

[wbranch]

PenKev wrote;

If the steelhead runs don't improve this may turn out to be merely academic.

Boy, isn't that the truth! I've only been fishing Erie for ten years but during the first 3 - 4 years it was not at all uncommon to hook 15 - 20 fish everyday. My hook to land ratio was pretty crappy at about 50% but it was a lot of fun. Also it was rare to catch any steelhead less than 24". Many fish were 25" - 28" with the occasional brute of 30". Now most fish I catch, and see caught, are first year fish 20" - 22" long. There are likely bigger fish but I only steelhead from late September to mid November. After that it is usually too cold for my taste and the days are so short that I lose interest.

I recognize many guys want to eat them (I have heard they aren't very tasty) So I think guys should be able to kill some but the limit should be reduced from 3 to 2 fish a day and I think a slot limit would really do a lot to enhance the fishery. No kill any steelhead less than 24" and have enough CO's around to enforce the law.

This is a friend of mine. The steelhead, as you can plainly see, is a monster for the PA creeks and a damn big steelhead anywhere. It is by far the biggest steelie I have ever seen caught in PA. I bet it could of been a citation fish if he had cared enough about it. It ate a nymph and was promptly released.

 

[Solitariolupo]

timbow wrote:
I tried burning them on a few weeks ago for an upcoming trip to Michigan, where they are definitely illegal if pegged. All I ended up with was melted beads, ruined hooks, and burnt fingers. What's the secret? I was trying to heat the hook and push it on and it seemed to cool down before I could get it pushed all the way on.

I use a candle heat the eye of the hook till it’s a little red then slip the bead where the hole is over. You can use a pair of needle nose pliers so you don’t burn you fingers. As for a hook make sure it’s wide gaped and thick so the bead doesn’t interfere with your hook point.

 

[FarmerDave]

wbranch wrote:
Hi Farmer Dave,

I guess the word "designed" troubled me. I doubt trout beads were ever developed solely with the intention of hooking steelhead outside the mouth. They were developed as an alternative to using real eggs so guys could fish with an artificial egg. The hooking of some fish on the outside of the mouth is pretty much just a resultant of the mechanics of how the hook turns/twists when the angler is lifting the rod tip to set the hook and the bead is sliding down the tippet.

I agree with that (mostly). The beads alone were not designed as a snagging tool. Truth be known, they probably weren't even designed for fishing (craft supply). But somewhere along the line, someone said to themself, these would make a good egg pattern, so they attached them to a hook. I have a few. These are not illegal. More recently someone said, what if I peg the bead to the line a few inches above the hook in such a way that when a trout takes the bead, the line slips through the bead and the hook catches the fish in the face or mouth. Forget the twisting part. It has nothing to do with it. It's the fact that you have gotten a rig with the sole purpose of getting the line in the mouth first, resulting in a hookup. In other words flossing. Look, many of the steelhead hooked are actually flossed, and most of those are by accident. It happens, especially when targeting trout in shallow water. But if one designs a rig specifically for flossing...? I have no issue with that being illegal.

As was stated, the bead itself is not illegal. But if you build a rig designed to snag trout, then the rig is illegal or at least should be illegal.

 

[FarmerDave]

wbranch wrote:
Afishinado wrote;

"Trout beads hook fish on the outside of the mouth and, in Pennsylvania, any fish not hooked on the inside of the mouth has to be released."

I know I am splitting hairs but since I never keep any steelhead and immediately release them I think they should be permitted. I know how would a CO know I planned to release any bead caught fish.

That is why they made the rig illegal. Easier to enforce.

If you plan to release them anyway, why resort to this?

... and when I want to bead I'll just drive a few more miles east into NY or west into OH where beads are legal.

I did not know it was legal in Ohio. I may have to give it a try. ;-)

 

[bigslackwater]

I fished beads on my one trip to Alaska. I Never snagged a single fish and most were hooked inside the mouth. Beads are very effective in Alaska because of the salmon runs. Steelies get keyed in to certain colors and sizes. Here in PA, I feel like eggs are not a prominent source of food and fishing a bead would essentially be fishing an attractor. If they are keying in on eggs in Erie Tribs, it would be nice to discuss size and color, (if thats even allowed since we've now discovered this is illegal!)

 

[FarmerDave]

bigslackwater wrote:
I fished beads on my one trip to Alaska. I Never snagged a single fish and most were hooked inside the mouth. Beads are very effective in Alaska because of the salmon runs. Steelies get keyed in to certain colors and sizes. Here in PA, I feel like eggs are not a prominent source of food and fishing a bead would essentially be fishing an attractor. If they are keying in on eggs in Erie Tribs, it would be nice to discuss size and color, (if thats even allowed since we've now discovered this is illegal!)

Wait. How is that not contradictory?

Most were caught inside the mouth. How were the rest caught?

Snagging kind of implies intent, so maybe a better description is foul hooked.

In Alaska, a fish hooked near the mouth might not be considered foul hooked, but in PA it is. Whether it should be considered legal caught is debatable. Currently it is not. The law simply forbids a rig that increased the likelyhood of foul hooking.

I count them anyway, but I almost always throw them all back.

Whether or not eggs are a prominent source of food in the Erie tribs is debatable, but they certainly are a part of it. Single egg patterns have worked well for me especially in late winter and early Spring. And who hasn't seen jacks feeding below redds? And I'd bet Brown trout do that same although I haven't caught any yet. I don't get out as much since moving to the farm. But I agree the bead is an attractant.

In the fall and early winter, I start with bead head Woolly buggers or zonkers. Later I went with single eggs, sucker spawn, and nymphs.

Tandem rig with Single egg followed by a nymph works well later in the season. I think one can get similar results with that as one would with a bead pegged above a nymph, but if the Steelhead actually hits the egg imitation, it is often hooked by it. Otherwise they get hooked in the face by the trailing nymph.;-)

Did I mention I don't like using tandem rigs? But sometimes we have to do what we have to do.;-)

Lets face it. Steelhead fishing isn't real trout fishing.

What size single eggs? I find smaller is better. Probably size 12 or 14 hook.

 

[FarmerDave]

One more thing.

I believe the PA law is written in such a way that if you are in possession of a fish that had been foul hooked, you can be cited.

Maybe that is Ohio. Can't remember.

That means, if you LEGALLY catch a fish that Maurice (for example) had hooked in the butt earlier that day, and it left a mark, you still have to toss it back.

If you keep it, and you get checked, you could be cited. Not saying that you would be, but you could be. If you are in possession, they don't have to prove that you were the one that foul hooked it.

I could be wrong, but I believe that to be true.

 

[Swattie87]

FarmerDave wrote:
One more thing.

I believe the PA law is written in such a way that if you are in possession of a fish that had been foul hooked, you can be cited.

This is where it pays to be fishing with someone. (See the gregarious thread.)

"I was just holding this fish for a friend officer. He's a real spincaster."

 

[wbranch]

FarmerDave wrote;

Whether or not eggs are a prominent source of food in the Erie tribs is debatable, but they certainly are a part of it.

I think it is a moot point whether or not eggs are a prominent source of food in the Erie tribs. I think rainbows/steelhead are just genetically predisposed to eat eggs! It is unlikely there are any loose eggs drifting down stream in October but guys have been catching steelhead on Glo-bugs, sucker spawn, Blood Dots for decades. I have tried small Glo bugs on some western tailwaters and they were so effective I felt I had to stop using them. I don't think a rainbow trout can let an egg fly/imitation float by without inhaling it.

 

[DaveS]

Let me start by saying I’m not positive about this;

I believe the pegged egg technique originated on trophy rainbow fisheries in Alaska. It was to prevent mortality in deep hooked rainbows, which are ( this part I am sure of) a highly prized an valuable commodity.

PA steelhead are stocked to be “utilized “
Utilize them as you see fit.

 

[FarmerDave]

The steelhead that PA stock are mutts. Some of then actually do spawn in the fall.

As a result, the general rule is that PA has better runs in the fall and earlier winter, and taper off towards Spring. while Ohio's runs tend to be better Winter through Spring.

I've even seen steelhead spawning in the Chagrin in Ohio in the fall, but they were likely strays from PA because PA stocks so many. Thanks PA.;-)

But I agree that it is still somewhat moot.

Thanks for the reality check, Dave.

 

[wbranch]

Daves wrote;

I believe the pegged egg technique originated on trophy rainbow fisheries in Alaska. It was to prevent mortality in deep hooked rainbows, which are ( this part I am sure of) a highly prized an valuable commodity.

A good friend of mine just returned from a week at a high end, fly out, Alaska lodge. He did great on rainbows 21" - 24" and Dollies up to 29" day after day. I asked him what they were using and he said "Beads for the entire trip, we never put on a fly".