Trout Beads - Legal in PA??

[wbranch]

Does anyone familiar with trout beads (yea I know they aren't flies but then neither are Squirmy Wormies but lots of guys are using them) know if they are legal to use on PA waters and particularly on the PA Erie steelhead waters as that is the only place I use them. I use them in NY and I know they are legal.

Some people have suggested that when you bead you are snagging fish. I disagree. When I bead I always use an indicator and can't see the steelhead. I fish a bead just as I would a nymph; roll cast up and across and follow the indicator as it rides down stream. When the indicator gets pulled under I strike. I have never hooked a steelhead anywhere but in the mouth. Sometimes inside the mouth and other times outside the mouth. I have never tried to determine the percentage in, or out, of the mouth. But my recollection seems to indicate it is about 50/50. Beads are very effective and a lot less costly than having to tie a dozen nymphs that you can easily lose in those streams just full of sharp edged shale.

 

[Dave_W]

I'm not sure.
I think so for general reg areas, as long as they are not pegged above a hook(?).

I seem to recall we had a debate here some years ago when a company was promoting a FFing system utilizing beads and flies pegged above a bare hook. Systems such as this were popular in Alaska. Anyway, the PFBC made a statement that such a system was not legal in PA (again, hazy memory here).

 

[wbranch]

Dave wrote;

I think so for general reg areas, as long as they are not pegged above a hook(?).

That is the concept of beads. Pegging the bead 2"- 3" above a bare hook. The steelhead see an "egg" unencumbered with a nasty hook. They eat the bead. You strike, the bead slides down the tippet, you hook the fish. I'll continue to bead until a CO tells me it is illegal.

Actually I posed the question on the PFBC web site yesterday. There is a means to send them an email with inquiries that are not explained on the web site. When I get a definitive answer I will post it here.

 

[TJones]

As far as I know they are legal, and lots of people fish them that way. Interested in what you hear in response from PFBC however.

 

[troutbert]

Why is the bead pegged several inches above the hook?

Why not have the bead right at the hook?

 

[PennKev]

troutbert wrote:
Why is the bead pegged several inches above the hook?

Why not have the bead right at the hook?

The bead obstructs the hook somewhat if it is pegged right at the hook. Consequently, a bead that slips a lot is not really desirable.

The overall idea is that the fish inhales the bead and the hook is then positioned near the jaw so that a hook-set results in a fish that is hooked in the jaw rather than deep in the mouth making for a very secure hook-up and minimal injury to the fish.

The perception by some, mostly people looking to pick a fight IMO, is that you are actually snagging the fish. Meanwhile, they will happily play and land steelhead hooked in the back with sucker spawn because "They weren't trying to snag 'em." I truly think that some people are so used to foul hooking steelhead that they automatically think that the pegged bead rig is just blatant snagging.

In my experience, the system never produced any hook-ups that would be typical of lined or snagged fish. Fish were always hooked along the jaw, in the corner of the mouth, or well inside the mouth. in fact, a surprising number of fish will be hooked in the mouth (and not in any part of the jaw). It's my understanding that Alaskans peg the bead much farther away to increase the chance of hooking in the corner of the mouth and outside jaw. The overall presentation can be argued to be more natural and effective way to fish an egg imitation.

Will i continue to use pegged beads? meh, i dunno. It's just another thing to buy and frankly my steelhead fishing (and the fishery in general) has declined so much since I first tried beads that I likely won't invest much time or money into it in the foreseeable future.

But yeah it works and it works exactly as advertised.

 

[wbranch]

Pennkev wrote;

The bead obstructs the hook somewhat if it is pegged right at the hook. Consequently, a bead that slips a lot is not really desirable.

Yes. That is exactly correct. See this comment in my other post;

That is the concept of beads. Pegging the bead 2"- 3" above a bare hook. The steelhead see an "egg" unencumbered with a nasty hook. They eat the bead. You strike, the bead slides down the tippet, you hook the fish. I'll continue to bead until a CO tells me it is illegal.

If the bead is directly flush with the hook the natural drift of the bead will be impaired and the whole intention is for the trout, or steelhead, to not see the hook. I started to bead because I was losing easily a dozen nymphs a day on the PA shale littered steelhead streams. I tie really nice nymphs and enjoy spending 10 minutes creating a really sharp looking fly. I hate losing one, or two, on the first cast into a run. Even when I use an indicator the bottom of the stream is uneven so the rig may get hung up on a hunk of shale higher than the others. I hate walking in on a run and spooking fish so I break off.

I can buy two dozen beads for $5.00, 65 Owner "Mosquito" #10 hooks for $14, and 100 silicone pegs for $5.00. I can fish all week and spend less than $30 replacing terminal gear. Of course if I am fishing a really fishy looking riffle I will swing traditional steelhead flies.

 

[Biggie]

For C & R, pegged beads are much better for the fish. From my experience, the hook is almost always in the hard part of the fish's mouth. I did have one steelhead that jumped a few times and broke me off. About 30 minutes later I landed a steelhead and when I went to remove my hook, there was my red hook about two inches in and on the roof of it's mouth. This was in NY, not PA. I think it is illegal to use a bare hook in PA. Can't wait to see if you get an answer to your question.

 

[ryansheehan]

Found this with a Google search.


The method you describe is often referred to as the "Trout Bead Method" or "the Moffet Method". It is not specifically addressed by those titles in our regulations.

PFBC Regulations state that fish may not be foul-hooked (hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth), and it is also illegal to intentionally attempt to snag or foul hook a fish. The following is the exact wording of the current Title 58 regulations.
§ 63.9. Snatch fishing, foul hooking and snag fishing.
(a) It is unlawful to take or attempt to take fish by the methods known as snatch fishing, foul hooking or snag fishing or to take or attempt to take fish with a snagging hook or device which may be used to capture the fish by engaging the device in, to, with, or around any part of the body of the fish. In addition, it is unlawful to possess a snagging hook while in the act of fishing. A snagging hook is a fishing device that is designed or modified to facilitate the snagging of fish. It is either of the following:
(1) A hook with other than a single barb which is weighted on the shank at any point below the eye of the hook and above the barbs thereof.
(2) A hook that is otherwise designed or modified so as to make the snagging of fish more likely when it is used than if a normal hook or fishing device were used.
Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth they are not currently considered legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

The beads do not make the terminal tackle a regulated item, it is the manner in which the fish would be hooked.

LTC Don Lauver
Assistant Director
Bureau of Law Enforcement
PA Fish and Boat Commission
717-705-7866

 

[wbranch]

Ryan wrote;

Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth they are not currently considered legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Who developed that hypothesis? Where is it written that the bead method is "designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth". I have read many web site blurbs about beads and none have ever said they were "designed" to hook fish outside of the mouth. If that is the case why is it I get at least 50% hook ups inside the mouth. I have never had a bead hooked steelhead get the hook any where but in the upper or lower mandible. Never in the interior of the mouth or any where other than the mouth.

I'm just curious as to where that CO got that data. I will be very interested now in receiving the answer from the PFBC in regard to my inquiry. It will be interesting if it is contradictory to the quote you provided.

If it is in fact illegal in PA admittedly I will be disappointed as it is very effective and easy on terminal tackle. However I caught many steelhead on conventional nymphs before I started to use beads and I will just have to go back to nymphing or stay out of PA and fish the western NY streams.

 

[ksherbine]

We've fished a TON in Alaska using this method to catch Rainbows and Dolly's below salmon beds and caught hundreds of fish. I literally don't remember any of them being hooked on the outside of the mouth. The fish has a hold of the bead, you pull the line, and the hook replaces the bead inside the mouth.

 

[afishinado]

Here is a link to an article about the subject > Trout Bead Article

From the article:

Trout beads, for instance, are a hot item in the Pacific Northwest, but could land you in hot water on commonwealth streams.

"It's a legal device elsewhere, but illegal here," said Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission assistant northwest regional law enforcement supervisor Tom Tarkowski. "Trout beads hook fish on the outside of the mouth and, in Pennsylvania, any fish not hooked on the inside of the mouth has to be released."

The device works by attracting a fish to a salmon egg imitation on a line several inches above a hook. When the fish eats the bead and the angler jerks the line, the hook snares the fish on the outside of his jaw.

"Apparently, these devices are popular in other states, like Alaska, and we get a lot of questions from anglers wanting to use them on steelhead here," Tarkowski said. "The answer is, you can't."

I recommend you check with the PFBC to verify, but I would not use pegged beads for fishing anywhere in PA at this time.

 

[PennKev]

Guess we need to burn our rapalas and articulated streamers cause those sure as heck hook fish "outside the mouth" often enough.

Earlier this year I had a fish hammer a sculpin tied on a single #2 b10s. He ended up hooked in the "chin"..

I'm an outlaw.

 

[bigjohn58]

IF someone is really concerned they could wrap some thread on the hooks they are using for pegged beads. The main issue with using beads is the bare hook. If you take some black, or grey, or brown (whatever color your hook is) thread and just do a wrap on the hook then you are not fishing with a bare hook.

 

[Solitariolupo]

So if pegging them is illegal what about burning them on your hooks. They work just as good.

 

[troutbert]

Solitariolupo wrote:
So if pegging them is illegal what about burning them on your hooks. They work just as good.

I think that would be legal.

With the bead on the hook, it's not set up for snagging.

 

[FarmerDave]

Wbranch, I never gave it much thought. But you even admitted about half of the fish you catch are hooked outside of the mouth. So how does that not support the claim that it is designed to do that?

Then again, it's just as easy to floss them using tandem flies which is a legal rig. But as you said is more expensive.;-)

There are more steelhead flossed than most would like to believe. If you caught a fish in the opposite side of the mouth (inside or out) from where you were standing, chances are that the fish was flossed. I still count these as caught. ;-)

 

[FarmerDave]

troutbert wrote:

Solitariolupo wrote:
So if pegging them is illegal what about burning them on your hooks. They work just as good.

I think that would be legal.

With the bead on the hook, it's not set up for snagging.

I agree with Troutbert that this is likely legal. It's still a single egg pattern but with a hard egg rather than single egg made of yarn.

But I will disagee with the idea that it works just as good as a bead pegged above the terminal tackle. A hard bead on the hook doesn't work as good because it does interfere with the drift and can interfere with the business end of the hook (depending on the hook).

 

[timbow]

I tried burning them on a few weeks ago for an upcoming trip to Michigan, where they are definitely illegal if pegged. All I ended up with was melted beads, ruined hooks, and burnt fingers. What's the secret? I was trying to heat the hook and push it on and it seemed to cool down before I could get it pushed all the way on.

 

[ryansheehan]

I have a vision of a zebra midge style fly(only bigger) with a bead pegged above it. Then again I'm not a steelheader.........so there is that.