The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
I too would be for Members Only Stream Reports. Sure it won't weed out all the lurkers, but it'll help a great deal.
The Spotburning Thread
- Thread starter afishinado
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Foxgap239
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- Jun 29, 2011
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I'm not going to come down on one side or the other as far as the suggestions here. But I would like to say is that I wish all threads with topics as explosive as this can be as well argued and civil as this one.
Not trying to be condescending to anyone but this is the way we should always be as a group. As someone pointed out, we all at least have this one passion in common and should be able to have civil debates which are entertaining and informative.
Not trying to be condescending to anyone but this is the way we should always be as a group. As someone pointed out, we all at least have this one passion in common and should be able to have civil debates which are entertaining and informative.
lol..
To clarify, we all add stuff to posts that's a little off-topic, but common courtesy should prevail. If the light comes on after reading a post and you have another subject to write about - start a new thread.
As far as stream reports, I see no harm (in fact...good) from adding info to the report with a post, like: "Yeah, I fished that stretch and caught a few on parachute hairs butt flies last week....."
The one thing we all have grown tired of, is the bitchin' about spot burning in way too many stream threads.
I stand somewhere in the middle on the spot burning subject. While stream reports are great for the well known streams, there are some smaller streams that cannot handle a lot of angler pressure and/or are located in privately owned property. Please use your judgement when posting about such streams. But, many of the streams we are talking about have books or chapters of books written about them, and have daily stream reports and detailed info posted about them both in print and on-line!
Anyway, IMO, "spotburning" is a legitimate FFing topic, and the debate on this subject will never end.
This thread is here serve as your place to voice your opinion on the subject for the members of the site that wish to read about it. All opinions are welcome, as long as you do not disparage others with opinions that differ from yours. Just my 2.
Hey Les, I like your "brown bag" analogy...Lestrout for me...more trout for you;-)
PatrickC
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- May 1, 2010
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- 1,397
Good stuff ryguyfi!
I think the big issue is that ya'll are not all that nice when new folks come along and make a mistake on YOUR forum. Instead of taking the high road and saying, "Hey, have you considered...." A lot of folks call them everything but human. That is poor form at best. Take the high road, educated people the way you would want to be educated, and lead them out of the situation. Yelling and screaming at someone for a mistake really says more about you than the "spot-burner." Be graceous folks, it will serve you well.
PSUFishMenace
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- Aug 12, 2009
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- 733
I did basically the same thing when I first joined but with a few different streams (at that point I had never fished the stream you're talking about). I also got a friendly PM that suggested to be a little more careful. Despite the fact that I have never seen anyone else on the few streams I mentioned (before or after posting) I have taken that advice to heart. I've had one PM (from someone with one post on the site) that basically said "you moron, don't post names of streams in that area, they will get cleaned out." I didn't agree with their viewpoint or attitude but they made their comment PRIVATELY. To me there is no point to blasting someone publicly. Some who do this say "I don't feel like taking the time to send a PM," but they have the time to post and argue publicly day after day? One PM will go a lot further than multi-page, week-long arguments that bring the stream trying to be "kept secret" to the attention of everyone reading the site.
As far as what I think of spotburning: I do not share the same opinion as many here that naming streams on this forum has a huge impact, except in select cases. However, I still choose not post many stream names publicly because others have a desire to keep others off "their" streams and I am trying to be respectful of their wishes. And also because I fish a lot of streams that don't have names to begin with ;-)
One last thing, for those who think streams can still be "secret" (if anyone even does think that)...I have yet to find a trout stream of any size that has not also been fished by other members of this forum.
Well Dkile himself said the site gets around 170,000 uniques with 5,000 registered members. That means registered members not logged in don't count as one of the 170,000 uniques. And even if everyone had 2 computers and browsed without logging on with their other computer that would still only be 10k out of 170,000.
You can be a smart alec all you want Jack, you're still not correct.
You can be a smart alec all you want Jack, you're still not correct.
GreenWeenie
Member
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- Sep 12, 2008
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- 697
The point of “beating a certain stream to death” wasn’t to try and change anything with that stream, the reality is that stream has been damaged 16 months ago by others, so the continued “beating it to death” was to clearly illustrate and let other people know what can happen to a stream, even a “famous and well known stream,” when unnecessary attention gets brought to it. People debate spot burning and stream reports and those that don’t want to believe it can happen continually say, “Show me the proof, show me data.” Well, what I was trying to do was show you the proof.
I fished that stream probably 400+ times from sunup to sundown from spring 2006 to September 2010 so I know exactly what was going on with that stream and I saw what happened immediately after people started making posts glorifying the stream and the renovation work - around November 2010 – there was a HUGE increase in SUSTAINED fishing pressure and the stream has deteriorated as a result. From November 2010 to today I watched this 1 mile C&R section go from a world class wild trout fishery that held massive numbers of trout, flew under the radar screen and had very few fishermen to a stretch that is now overrun by fishermen and the overall trout population and habitat in the 1 mile C&R stretch has degraded substantially. This isn’t about ruining my experience it’s about ruining the stream. It’s still a decent stream, better than most, but 99% of the fly fishermen on this forum had no clue what was actually there and they never will get to experience it but they see what it currently is like and because it’s better than most streams, they don’t believe what I am saying and try and make me look like a liar with some hidden agenda. Yes, I do have an agenda - I don’t want to see the next under the radar stream get outted like this one was and ruined. The stream fishes at a fraction of what it was but unfortunately that fraction is still much better than most other streams so nobody can fully understand the magnitude of what actually happened. I was there for 5 years and saw it and the reality is this 1 mile C&R section simply can’t handle 20-30 fishermen, which is what the attention of 16 months ago brought to this stream, so what I am doing is bringing attention to what happened to the stream and I blame glorifying stream reports as a major cause. This isn’t to help BS because the damage has been done but to make others aware of what can happen to a stream by bringing attention to it and hopefully people will think before they report on a stream.
As for the argument about stream reports spread out pressure, at face value it makes sense but it really doesn’t hold water except in certain instances. I will use the ½ mile Penn State stretch of Spruce Creek as an example.
Everyone knows about SC and this stretch but what do you think would happen if someone came on here and made a glorifying post boasting of a great BWO hatch yesterday and how trout were rising everywhere and they caught 14 trout with several in the 12-16” range? You don’t think other people would go based on that posting? I’ll bet some will. I’m not saying someone in Potter County would drive to Spruce based on a stream report but it wouldn’t surprise me if 3-4 people who otherwise would have fished the Little J today decided instead to fish the ½ mile section of SC so at face value it’s a wash – the LJ benefits from 3 less fishermen at the expense of SC. That is wrong because 3 people not fishing the LJ has a negligible effect on the LJ but those 3 extra people hitting that ½ mile stretch on SC have a tremendous impact on SC. Now if the 3 people left the LJ for Penns, that’s a wash and only in that situation of people leaving a stream to fish a like stream does that argument hold water.
I fished that stream probably 400+ times from sunup to sundown from spring 2006 to September 2010 so I know exactly what was going on with that stream and I saw what happened immediately after people started making posts glorifying the stream and the renovation work - around November 2010 – there was a HUGE increase in SUSTAINED fishing pressure and the stream has deteriorated as a result. From November 2010 to today I watched this 1 mile C&R section go from a world class wild trout fishery that held massive numbers of trout, flew under the radar screen and had very few fishermen to a stretch that is now overrun by fishermen and the overall trout population and habitat in the 1 mile C&R stretch has degraded substantially. This isn’t about ruining my experience it’s about ruining the stream. It’s still a decent stream, better than most, but 99% of the fly fishermen on this forum had no clue what was actually there and they never will get to experience it but they see what it currently is like and because it’s better than most streams, they don’t believe what I am saying and try and make me look like a liar with some hidden agenda. Yes, I do have an agenda - I don’t want to see the next under the radar stream get outted like this one was and ruined. The stream fishes at a fraction of what it was but unfortunately that fraction is still much better than most other streams so nobody can fully understand the magnitude of what actually happened. I was there for 5 years and saw it and the reality is this 1 mile C&R section simply can’t handle 20-30 fishermen, which is what the attention of 16 months ago brought to this stream, so what I am doing is bringing attention to what happened to the stream and I blame glorifying stream reports as a major cause. This isn’t to help BS because the damage has been done but to make others aware of what can happen to a stream by bringing attention to it and hopefully people will think before they report on a stream.
As for the argument about stream reports spread out pressure, at face value it makes sense but it really doesn’t hold water except in certain instances. I will use the ½ mile Penn State stretch of Spruce Creek as an example.
Everyone knows about SC and this stretch but what do you think would happen if someone came on here and made a glorifying post boasting of a great BWO hatch yesterday and how trout were rising everywhere and they caught 14 trout with several in the 12-16” range? You don’t think other people would go based on that posting? I’ll bet some will. I’m not saying someone in Potter County would drive to Spruce based on a stream report but it wouldn’t surprise me if 3-4 people who otherwise would have fished the Little J today decided instead to fish the ½ mile section of SC so at face value it’s a wash – the LJ benefits from 3 less fishermen at the expense of SC. That is wrong because 3 people not fishing the LJ has a negligible effect on the LJ but those 3 extra people hitting that ½ mile stretch on SC have a tremendous impact on SC. Now if the 3 people left the LJ for Penns, that’s a wash and only in that situation of people leaving a stream to fish a like stream does that argument hold water.
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What if 30 people left the Little J section only from the Barree Gorge parking lot up to SRC property in order to go, three at a time, to Spruce, Warrior's Mark, Tipton, Plum, Clover, Piney, Frankie, Yellow, Galbraith, Slab Cabin, Tea, Hay, Honey, bring me a beer?
Now, I can have my run of the Gorge on the Little J, and for that, I thank you.
Now, I can have my run of the Gorge on the Little J, and for that, I thank you.
GreenWeenie
Member
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- Sep 12, 2008
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- 697
What if the rabbit didn't stop to crap it would have beaten the turtle, too.
But you'd have to actually fish in order to enjoy that. You fish far less than most fishermen on this board, as exhibited by your contributions. So you really don't have a clue about the spread out pressure because you cannot see it from your office.
Unless you remote cameras set along all these streams.
I can personally echo the exact same thing GW has seen. There is no better data than boots in the water on stream observation. Not to mention spending enough time on certain streams to build up relationships with landowners as well who frequently express disdain and regret now that they see people nonstop fishing where prior to the glory posts, they saw noone.
Unless you remote cameras set along all these streams.
I can personally echo the exact same thing GW has seen. There is no better data than boots in the water on stream observation. Not to mention spending enough time on certain streams to build up relationships with landowners as well who frequently express disdain and regret now that they see people nonstop fishing where prior to the glory posts, they saw noone.
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So you are saying my example is a fairy tale? I feel likewise. I do not buy people's claims to observing an overrun stream after a report on PAFF or elsewhere.
EX:
Someone posts that Green Drakes are hatching June 1 on Penns. The stream is crowded June 2. Is it because the Green Drakes ARE hatching, or because someone mentioned it on PAFF?
EX:
Someone posts that Green Drakes are hatching June 1 on Penns. The stream is crowded June 2. Is it because the Green Drakes ARE hatching, or because someone mentioned it on PAFF?
