The Debate Started.....

[sixfootfenwick]

Se

Note: Invasive classification includes those that cause economic OR ecological harm. The classification doesn’t focus solely on ecology.

Self inflicted economic harm.

I have tons of dandelions in my yard. I don't spend money to spray them. I pull the ones from my garden.

People are stupid.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Roundup is a herbicide, so I doubt it kills bees. And BTW, honeybees are also non-native and could be classified as invasive.

It just disrupts the gut microbiome and makes bee colonies much more vulnerable to disease and other harmful effects.

Glyphosate is very bad for bees.

 

[FarmerDave]

It just disrupts the gut microbiome and makes bee colonies much more vulnerable to disease and other harmful effects.

Glyphosate is very bad for bees.

It no doubt has a negative impact.

link

However, There are even worse things in modern farming practices when it comes to bees. But I don't want to hijack another thread: although, an argument could be made that this one needs it.

 

[bdhoover77]

It no doubt has a negative impact.

link

However, There are even worse things in modern farming practices when it comes to bees. But I don't want to hijack another thread: although, an argument could be made that this one needs it.

Listen to last week’s Orvis podcast discussing the disastrous impact of neonic pesticides.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

It no doubt has a negative impact.

link

However, There are even worse things in modern farming practices when it comes to bees. But I don't want to hijack another thread: although, an argument could be made that this one needs it.

Oh absolutely.
I have a farm.

But I would call some of the farming practices a necessary evil for food production than spraying dandelions for perfect looking grass yards.

It's apples to oysters in the regard.

 

[FarmerDave]

Listen to last week’s Orvis podcast discussing the disastrous impact of neonic pesticides.

Don't need to. I've been living on a farm for over 20 years, and have been an amateur beekeeper for most of that. Neonicotinoids were the first thing to come to mind, but any insecticide, especially systemic insecticides are bad for bees.

There are others. There has been a lot of finger pointing on what was/is causing bee Colony Collapse Disorder but a smoking gun has never been found. It is caused by a lot of different stressors which SFF touched on in his earlier.

If someone wants to start a thread on this, go ahead.

 

[FarmerDave]

Oh absolutely.
I have a farm.

But I would call some of the farming practices a necessary evil for food production than spraying dandelions for perfect looking grass yards.

It's apples to oysters in the regard.

Agreed, and I knew you had a farm, too.

 

[jifigz]

I come from one of the largest migratory bee keeping families in the Eastern U.S. and we ship bees all over the country from California for almonds to Wisconsin for cranberries to Maine for blueberries. Glyphosate is no where near a top threat to honey bees. Development of traditional wild lands and Varroa are far, far worse.

I've been trying to not reply to this thread but I've failed.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I come from one of the largest migratory bee keeping families in the Eastern U.S. and we ship bees all over the country from California for almonds to Wisconsin for cranberries to Maine for blueberries. Glyphosate is no where near a top threat to honey bees. Development of traditional wild lands and Varroa are far, far worse.

I've been trying to not reply to this thread but I've failed.

Why?

Not the bee thing, why avoid the thread?
We are all just having fun.

Or is it you still believe in round earth and not the turtle?
😂

You aren't wrong about the bees but neither am I. Killing dandelions is just a stupid wasteful expense IMO. Others disagree and that's fine. They have a right to disagree and keep spending money, I have a right to think they are stupid too.


I did notice, we have a few large bee colonies on our properties. Some of them took a hit when our fields got expanded and the clover blooms got cut in half. Ive worked hard and making sure more has comeback over grass.
This is the second year clover has really taken hold hard. I'm noticing more bees, I'm hoping next year is even better.

I was unaware of the Varroa mite. Interesting.
Well I learned my one thing today

 

[sixfootfenwick]

On a side note, we try and organic garden for our personal food use. The Japanese Beetles that come from the fields on the years Soy is planted is very hard to mitigate.

Still looking for answers there.

 

[JerryC]

Dandelions do not really pose a threat to any native plant or animal. Unless you count all the buffoons spraying round up on them killing bees.

My grandfather on my dad's side would go out and pick dandelions. When he did we'd have dandelion greens for dinner. My grandmother of my mother's side made wine from them. Beats spraying them with weed killer.

 

[Swattie87]

Somebody let me know when the debate has ended.

 

[Mike]

Oh absolutely.
I have a farm.

But I would call some of the farming practices a necessary evil for food production than spraying dandelions for perfect looking grass yards.

It's apples to oysters in the regard.

Well then you should check some ag extension web pages to find that dandelions take space away from production plants and compete for water and nutrients, particularly in no-till situations. Alfalfa is one of the specific crops cited.

 

[FarmerDave]

I come from one of the largest migratory bee keeping families in the Eastern U.S. and we ship bees all over the country from California for almonds to Wisconsin for cranberries to Maine for blueberries. Glyphosate is no where near a top threat to honey bees. Development of traditional wild lands and Varroa are far, far worse.

I've been trying to not reply to this thread but I've failed.

I am not sure I agree that development of traditional wild lands has anything to do with it. I'd argue that monocultures like almonds cranberries and blueberries have more to do with it, indirectly. 😛 Varoa mites certainly are a problem. Those nasty little bastages are also an invasive, first discovered in Asia. They supposedly arrived here in the 80s and are now everywhere thanks to migratory beekeepers. 😛

The jab about migratory beekeepers should not be taken too seriously. You guys are required thanks to monoculture practices. Bees couldn't survive locally in the massive monocultures because the would starve. And I am not just talking honeybees. And monocultures are not going away ... unless they run out of water. Hence the need for migratory bee keepers.

Wild bees are making a comeback thanks to hobby beekeepers and the bees are developing more resistance to things like varoa mites. There are things that can be done to help keep varoa mites in check. At least that has been my experience.

But now we have the small hive beetle wreaking havoc. I now have them, too. Very interesting pest, but not in a good way.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Well then you should check some ag extension web pages to find that dandelions take space away from production plants and compete for water and nutrients, particularly in no-till situations. Alfalfa is one of the specific crops cited.

Why? I quoted the dept of agriculture and I have a farm. I've never had an issue myself with them "taking space away from production plants or competing for water and nutrients." Of course no till has issues, it has bigger issues than DLs.
The DL that grow in my field get ripped up and till and planting never to be seen again 🤷

 

[sixfootfenwick]

My point was, the biggest, most expensive losing battle on the plant is in the suburbs not farms. Many people spray every year and spend upwards of millions to eradicate a plant that just comes back again next year. In the process, while bees have bigger issues, they don't do bees any favors.

Seems to me a low hanging fruit.
It's the culture of my grass must be perfect.

It's lunacy.

 

[silverfox]

 

[FarmerDave]

Somebody let me know when the debate has ended.

That would be when the thread slides off of the page.

 

[FarmerDave]

My point was, the biggest, most expensive losing battle on the plant is in the suburbs not farms. Many people spray every year and spend upwards of millions to eradicate a plant that just comes back again next year. In the process, while bees have bigger issues, they don't do bees any favors.

Seems to me a low hanging fruit.
It's the culture of my grass must be perfect.

It's lunacy.

It is. But the last time I lived in the burbs, I had a couple neighbors who I swear would soak his entire property with insecticide every time they saw a spider. You could smell it for days.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

He on his own, I'm continuing.

30 million acres of America is covered in lawns and 80 million pounds of dandelions exist. American spending on herbicides — averaging, per the Environmental Protection Agency, $5 billion a year total and often targeting dandelions . US fish and wildlife estimate homeowners spend up to up to 10 times more per acre than farmers on dandelions and use up to 30 percent of the water supply on lawns.

Staggering.