The Debate Started.....

[sixfootfenwick]

It actually bothers me how little some of you have researched. The earth clearly isn't flat, it's attached to a giant turtle and mammoths. Birds aren't real and are just drones. We can save brook trout by expanding brown trout loch leven breeders through protection and opening up black hill strain residents to harvest.

Duh!

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Your insight is always appreciated!

 

[Fish Sticks]

I guess I do consider my 2012 beat to s*** honda fit with 200k miles and missing inside door panel from when I had to break into it at big spring a luxury vehicle

 

[silverfox]

N

Naturalized means has come to an equilibrium where is no longer responsible for loss of bio diversity/negative effects on the ecosystem. Seeing as 99% of the underwater species in PA on the wild life action plan have not been studied for negative impacts in PA and some yahoo compiled 200 or so articles documenting their invasive harm to brook trout and other aquatic organisms its going to be an uphill battle…. In fisheries science atleast…..not in fly shops. I think the right time to float that one is after this 6th mass extinction event passes and people forget about the top 30 most invasive ranking out of 4-5000 known invasives. You got a shot when there is nothing but house cats, squirrels, dear, and lantern flies left and they all come to a nice equilibrium with brown trout and largemouth

Idk man, naturalized is simply nonnative/self sustaining. I think Mike K is right. Naturalized invasive would be technically correct.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Idk man, naturalized is simply nonnative/self sustaining. I think Mike K is right. Naturalized invasive would be technically correct.

Oh yea your right I am thinking of another term

 

[Fish Sticks]

what we need is terminology for invasive species that have attained a social status that causes people to attempt to reclassify them as non-invasive

 

[sixfootfenwick]

what we need is terminology for invasive species that have attained a social status that causes people to attempt to reclassify them as non-invasive

Easy.

Invasive that it's pronouns are native/indigenous

 

[Fish Sticks]

Salmo Truttazation of a species?

 

[Mike]

Naturalized means has come to an equilibrium where is no longer responsible for loss of bio diversity/negative effects on the ecosystem

I think that you’ll find many definitions for naturalized, most of which just refer to an exotic that is reproducing and spreading on its own. Furthermore, the invasive tag is added to those exotics that cause economic or ecological harm. Nevertheless, they are still naturalized. Dandilions are used as an example of a naturalized invasive. Millions of dollars are spent on removing them from lawns, so they certainly have a negative impact even though young plants are sometimes used in salad and the flowers make a nice wine. Ecologically, they most likely out-compete some other plants for light and water, just as they do in lawns.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

No.
Dandelions do not really pose a threat to any native plant or animal. Unless you count all the buffoons spraying round up on them killing bees.

that seems more like a people problem than plant

US Dept of Ag says

• Weeds are undesirable plants, native or non-native, invading a given area, such as a lawn or garden. A good example of a weed is the common dandelion (Taraxacum officinale), a non-native species common throughout the United States. .

Elsewhere:
Lawns are artificial, though; they do not exist in the natural world. They have relatives in nature, such as meadows or prairies.

Wouldn't count lawns or gardens as a natural area being over run by a weed so it harms the ecosystem and can be classified as invasive.

 

[troutbert]

I've never heard any make the argument that brown trout are native to North America.

Some fisherman say "native brown," but that is not the same as arguing that brown trout are native to North America.

They say "native brown" because they don't know what the term native means from a biology perspective. They say "native" meaning streambred, as opposed to hatchery raised.

 

[tomgamber]

 

[FarmerDave]

N

Naturalized means has come to an equilibrium where is no longer responsible for loss of bio diversity/negative effects on the ecosystem. Seeing as 99% of the underwater species in PA on the wild life action plan have not been studied for negative impacts in PA and some yahoo compiled 200 or so articles documenting their invasive harm to brook trout and other aquatic organisms its going to be an uphill battle…. In fisheries science atleast…..not in fly shops. I think the right time to float that one is after this 6th mass extinction event passes and people forget about the top 30 most invasive ranking out of 4-5000 known invasives. You got a shot when there is nothing but house cats, squirrels, dear, and lantern flies left and they all come to a nice equilibrium with brown trout and largemouth

You forgot German cockroaches.

 

[FarmerDave]

No.
Dandelions do not really pose a threat to any native plant or animal. Unless you count all the buffoons spraying round up on them killing bees.

that seems more like a people problem than plant

US Dept of Ag says

• Weeds are undesirable plants, native or non-native, invading a given area, such as a lawn or garden. A good example of a weed is the common dandelion (Taraxacum officinale), a non-native species common throughout the United States. .

Elsewhere:
Lawns are artificial, though; they do not exist in the natural world. They have relatives in nature, such as meadows or prairies.

Wouldn't count lawns or gardens as a natural area being over run by a weed so it harms the ecosystem and can be classified as invasive.

Roundup is a herbicide, so I doubt it kills bees. And BTW, honeybees are also non-native and could be classified as invasive.

 

[Tigereye]

Survival of the fittest? Natural selection? Hmmmm??????

Been happening for thousands of years. Humans are invasive species by definition.

Utopia doesnt exit folks. Back to reality

 

[Fish Sticks]

Survival of the fittest? Natural selection? Hmmmm??????

Been happening for thousands of years. Humans are invasive species by definition.

Utopia doesnt exit folks. Back to reality

oh the fittest Lol!!!!! Like when another species puts your eggs in boats and disseminates world wide, then stocks you in those areas, then protects you with catch and release, then does habitat project’s specifically for you, then they build 100 foot tall dams that sustain you in arid and southern states.

Damn thats fitness! Thanks for the reality check

 

[silverfox]

Survival of the fittest? Natural selection? Hmmmm??????

Been happening for thousands of years. Humans are invasive species by definition.

Utopia doesnt exit folks. Back to reality

Who introduced humans to the planet?

 

[Tigereye]

Im pretty sure that was God.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Who introduced humans to the planet?

We were planted all over the planet in whitlock-vibert egg boxes, it wasn’t just invasive trout

 

[Mike]

No.
Dandelions do not really pose a threat to any native plant or animal. Unless you count all the buffoons spraying round up on them killing bees.

that seems more like a people problem than plant

US Dept of Ag says

• Weeds are undesirable plants, native or non-native, invading a given area, such as a lawn or garden. A good example of a weed is the common dandelion (Taraxacum officinale), a non-native species common throughout the United States. .

Elsewhere:
Lawns are artificial, though; they do not exist in the natural world. They have relatives in nature, such as meadows or prairies.

Wouldn't count lawns or gardens as a natural area being over run by a weed so it harms the ecosystem and can be classified as invasive.

Note: Invasive classification includes those that cause economic OR ecological harm. The classification doesn’t focus solely on ecology.