Straight 'Tailwater' Talk

When was the last example of when a dam has been switched from warm or run-of-river temperature flow regimes to a cold, bottom release regime in the US?

I don't know the answer to this question. Does anyone?

It seems to me that most (all?) of these were created some decades ago, maybe 30 years ago or more?
 
It just seams that we humans have screwed it up before and the eco changed to accomodate our advances - now we are trying to change things again (make things right sort of speaking) which will again change the eco, which will more than likely take several years to recover and may not recover at all.
Just for starters:
Changing a tower on a dam to allow colder water to enter will also bring the silt/sludge that has been lying on the bottoms of lakes for years undisturbed. Will there be a way to keep these tons of poisons out of the river? doubtful - They will plug up the rivers and kill off the river life. Will the river flow be increased? Again this will wash the toxins into the river at a greater rate.

I think this is a case of people thinking with their rod instead of your head.
 
Why mess with a really good smallmouth and muskie fishery below Raystown Dam? Are trout somehow better?
 
PennypackFlyer wrote:
While were at it - why don't we stock salmon in the Delaware
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Don't worry, the crack biologists of the LRSA are working on steelhead for the Lehigh.

:roll:
 
Musky and bass don't survive in cold water....see 1000 lakes region for reference.
 
StarvinMarvin wrote:
Why is the EBCR photod but not mentioned? It holds many wild fish, and yet we continue to stock over it?? The bugs seem to be there and almost all of the streams in the area with accidity issues are back to holding brookies. Rainbows are holding over that are stocked, and this year I have caught more wild browns than I ever have. I wonder if it a result of the dam being removed at Bendigo? The channel is at least 120' deep, when i fish there in 80 degree weather im often in sweatpants and a hoodie, and the water temp is 50-58 degrees.
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I've always wondered why in the world the EBCR is managed as delayed harvest water. I think the original idea of that regulation was to let anglers harvest trout in marginal streams, where they likely weren't gonna hold over anyway.
But that certainly isn't' the case with the EB for sure.
I've also always thought that it has the potential to be a wonderful tailwater fishery.
Of course, they do have the catch and release regs on the main stem below johnsonburg. But after mixing with the warm water from the WB - and the paper mill - that stream gets marginal in the summer.
 
The Lehigh is currently doing ok with the current issues at the lake. Potential? Oh yes. My question is can the lake handle recreational releases for rafters AND still provide cold water all summer? I haven't seen all the data but is the cold water pool large enough too keep the temp at 68-69 degrees where the Po meets the big river? The project at FEW will require some fight and a pile of money.
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Krayfish... The model that was developed by the Corps used 6 scenarios in Phase 2 of their study. All the scenarios had white water releases built into each scenario.

So to answer your question, YES, the lake can handle the rafters needs and this was considered in the model runs. The best two runs of the model were when the lake was at 1392 and 1438 ft above sea level. (Currently the lake is elevated to 1370 ft during the spring.)

Both scenarios with the lake level increased had a new control tower equipped with gates to discharge water at various elevations. Each of the 2 scenarios (1329 & 1438) showed water temps for 7-8 miles of "tailwater" section (down to about Tannery) to remain cold, below 68 F, actually much colder - 60F +/-. Below Tannery is when tributary influence begins to take over and maintain the water temps in the river. The 1392 scenario showed river temperatures would remain below 68F all the way down to the Glen Onoko/Jim Thorpe area. The 1438 scenario(s) showed the temps would be maintained below 68F down to Lehighton. The difference in distance being the volume of water that can be released.

The 1438 Scenario(s) would need the dam breast to be raised but would not compensate any flood control. The 1392 scenario would take up about 35-40% of the current flood control storage but would not elevate the dam breast.

I think that is it in a nutshell. More work is progressing as we speak and the Corps has taken some initiative to move forward. The higher ups within the PFBC are on board too. One more BIG hurdle to jump which will take considerable effort and this snowball will keep on rolling by itself.
 
Dryflyguy, rumor is, and I say rumor cause I cant be sure, but from a local in the area, the C&R on the main stem is implamented cause there is a toxin in the fish from a sedimentation resevoir? Ive fished the EBCR in winter and the flows were slow, hard to even get a drift if the wind was blowing upstream. The tribs were cranking though, and once you were downstream problem solved. Another issue might be a leak in the dam itself another rumor I have heard. The discharge hasnt dropped below 100 cfs, all summer, nor has the temp been over 65.
 
StarvinMarvin wrote:
Dryflyguy, rumor is, and I say rumor cause I cant be sure, but from a local in the area, the C&R on the main stem is implamented cause there is a toxin in the fish from a sedimentation resevoir? Ive fished the EBCR in winter and the flows were slow, hard to even get a drift if the wind was blowing upstream. The tribs were cranking though, and once you were downstream problem solved. Another issue might be a leak in the dam itself another rumor I have heard. The discharge hasnt dropped below 100 cfs, all summer, nor has the temp been over 65.
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I kinda doubt the first rumor. Until just a few years ago, the main stem between johnsonburg and ridgway was trophy trout water, allowing anglers to keep 2 fish per day.
Also, if there were toxins in that stretch - which is only about 7 miles long I believe - they're also gonna be in the river below ridgway. And that's open water down there.

Rumor #2 has some truth.
The dam developed some structural problems. And is being kept at a lower level because of it. You can see this on current satellite images of the reservoir.
And they figured out a way to repair it somehow, without draining the lake. But it's a slow process I guess, and has been going on now for quite a while.
 
EBCR is too sterile to support a great population of naturally reproducing trout. Until they change the dam to allow for some mid level releases with it's bottom release, it should be stocked. Plus the whole river doesn't do to well in the natural reproduction game. That's why it gets fingerling stockings and all those stocked tribs. You take that away with the current water conditions you won't be finding very many trout.

These potential tailwaters that require new release towers will never happen. Not one of these locations are going to spend that type of money for a some guys who want to catch trout. But I guess we can all dream but I would rather get excited about stuff that actually has a chance of happening.
 
Regarding the dam at Lake Wallenpaupack, into the Lackawaxen River, what is the flow regime like these days?

Have there been improvements?
 
allan_s wrote:
These potential tailwaters that require new release towers will never happen. Not one of these locations are going to spend that type of money for a some guys who want to catch trout. But I guess we can all dream but I would rather get excited about stuff that actually has a chance of happening.
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You never know. I'm sure the PFBC are doing economic impact analysis on surrounding economies. A world-class trout fishery can bring significant money into an area. I wonder how many small businesses rely on business from anglers fishing the West Branch?
 
The article discusses 6 different dams. None of them includes a proposal for new release towers.

On another sub-topic, I wonder why the Yough was not mentioned? Surely there must be potential for improvement there.

 
troutbert wrote:
Regarding the dam at Lake Wallenpaupack, into the Lackawaxen River, what is the flow regime like these days?

Have there been improvements?
Click to expand...

The Wallenpaupack is hydro-electric dam. The flow regime is dictated by the need for power generation.

Here are the flow and temps for the last 30 days. It's certainly not clear to me how or if anything can be done to make the flows more fish friendly.
 
afishinado wrote:
troutbert wrote:
Regarding the dam at Lake Wallenpaupack, into the Lackawaxen River, what is the flow regime like these days?

Have there been improvements?
Click to expand...

The Wallenpaupack is hydro-electric dam. The flow regime is dictated by the need for power generation.

Here are the flow and temps for the last 30 days. It's certainly not clear to me how or if anything can be done to make the flows more fish friendly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

The article states the cold water influence distance as being 6 miles, and that the re-licensing requires cold water releases.

But the flows do not appear to be cold. 70F isn't cold.

And the flows are still extremely flashy. I thought the re-licensing agreement was supposed to address that.
 
troutbert wrote:
afishinado wrote:
troutbert wrote:
Regarding the dam at Lake Wallenpaupack, into the Lackawaxen River, what is the flow regime like these days?

Have there been improvements?
Click to expand...

The Wallenpaupack is hydro-electric dam. The flow regime is dictated by the need for power generation.

Here are the flow and temps for the last 30 days. It's certainly not clear to me how or if anything can be done to make the flows more fish friendly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

The article states the cold water influence distance as being 6 miles, and that the re-licensing requires cold water releases.

But the flows do not appear to be cold. 70F isn't cold.

And the flows are still extremely flashy. I thought the re-licensing agreement was supposed to address that.
Click to expand...

The gauge I posted above is 8 miles form the dam. So I guess the temps would be a lot colder nearer to the dam. But, as I stated above, the up and down flow because of the operation of the hydro-electric plant is an issue that really can't be changed. It also puzzles me as to the feasibility of this tailwater.
 
troutbert wrote:
The article discusses 6 different dams. None of them includes a proposal for new release towers.

On another sub-topic, I wonder why the Yough was not mentioned? Surely there must be potential for improvement there.
Click to expand...

The Yough seems to be managed fine IMO. It's tailrace runs in the 50's for most of the summer. It's so cold, that you get enveloped in fog while fishing there most summer evenings.
Although, curiously, it does seem to run out of cold water sometimes by late summer. Currently though, it's running at 62 degrees
 

The Yough is managed OK... but does typically "run out" of cold water by Labor Day, although this year is an exception. That's because USACE priority is not given to cold water species management. Rather, they boost outflow each and every weekend-- barring drought years -- for the rafting industry. IMO, a slight adjustment in release scheduling to maintain the cold water for few more weeks would do wonders to help the fishery between September and mid-October. Ironically, when other streams begin to cool down in this period, the Yough is too warm. Unfortunately , the streams in this area are not stocked until October. So basically, the trout fishing in SW PA is VERY limited during this period,

I will attend the PFBC meeting on Sept 29-30 at Nemacolin Woodlands resort to express those concerns. The wheel doesn't have to be reinvented. Just adjusted slightly. I suggest anyone else interested do the same!
 
AllanS

Check out this article. ACOE modified/constructed a new tower to accommodate Bull Trout.

It has been done before!!! I think there was another reservoir in Oregon that did this same type of work to actually have warmer releases to benefit Chinook salmon during their spawning runs.

https://nrimp.dfw.state.or.us/crl/default.aspx?pn=CRTCP
 
Several years ago the dam on L. Wallenpaupack was relicensed and at that time the local TU fought for and got cold water releases. I don't recall what those releases were, but it was to the dismay of the guys fighting for cold water releases on the Delaware.
 
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