Straight 'Tailwater' Talk

Rivers that flourish and show a strong wild population growth, should have protected spawning water and/or be closed to fishing from October 30 to March 15.

protected spawning water is common, but to close the fishery would kind of defeat one purpose of a tailwater fishery - to provide year round recreation.

I did dig a bit deeper last night, brook trout tailwater fisheries do exist, but only in the South - Ozarks, Kentucky, Arkansus, on the White and Norfork rivers.

but again, they are 'planted' with cutts and browns too, rather like the Savage and GunPowder in MD.

 
I'm using the NY state management of Delaware as an example. Closed October 15 - April 1. Not C&R....closed to fishing. Based on the quality of the fishery, seems to be working pretty good.

I'd be happy with 6 months of great fishing versus 12 months of crap fishing.
 
krayfish2 wrote:
I'm using the NY state management of Delaware as an example. Closed October 15 - April 1. Not C&R....closed to fishing. Based on the quality of the fishery, seems to be working pretty good.

I'd be happy with 6 months of great fishing versus 12 months of crap fishing.

fair point i guess.

it doesn't seem to effect the fishing on the Farmington in CT or Deerfield in MA though. by way of interest - how long have the NY regs closed the Delaware for ? you seem very familiar with it, has there been a marked improvement ?

 
It's more about the flow, or more precisely the temps because of the flow.

Here is another article with much of the same info.

The first is Quemahoning Reservoir just south of Hollsopple in Somerset County. Dam construction on Quemahoning Creek was completed way back in 1913.

The reservoir created by this dam is about five miles long and two miles wide at its widest point, and drains into the Stonycreek River.

The release from Quemahoning Dam is cold enough to support trout and create a tailwater fishery, Miko explained, but the stream below the dam is devoid of habitat for trout because it was dredged years ago.



Francis E. Walter Dam on the Lehigh River on Carbon and Luzerne counties near Whitehaven is also a candidate.

The commission is currently evaluating flow models from that flood-control dam, owned and operated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, to determine what releases are needed to create a tailwater trout fishery.

Miko noted that the dam’s tower might need to be modified to allow for more bottom releases, and there has been talk of increasing the reservoir’s 80-acre pool to store more cold water.



Lake Wallenpaupack, a hydro-electric dam on Wallenpaupack Creek near Hawley, is the third candidate for creating a tailwater trout fishery.

On the border of Pike and Wayne counties, it is owned by PP&O. Miko said the agency is currently negotiating with power company officials about cold-water releases.



Raystown Dam in Huntingdon County is the fourth candidate selected by commission staff.

Raystown Lake is the largest lake that is entirely within Pennsylvania. It is a hydroelectric project. The 8,300-acre reservoir was completed in 1973 by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Created primarily to control floods, provide electricity and support recreational activities, Raystown dam is currently releasing warm water into the Raystown Branch of the Juniata River.



Cannonsville Reservoir is also on the commission’s list. The re­ser­voir in Delaware County, New York, was formed by impounding more than half of the West Branch of the Delaware River.

The westernmost of New York City’s reservoirs, put in service in 1964, it is the most recently constructed New York City-owned reservoir.

The commission is involved in complex multi-agency, multi-state negotiations with New York City to increase Cannonsville Dam’s cold-water releases.



The final dam under consideration for the tailwater trout initiative is Beltzville Dam.

A U.S. Army Corps of Engineers flood control project, the dam on Pohopoco Creek creates a 951-acre lake in Carbon County.

Beltzville Dam is already required to meet cold-water release requirements, Miko conceded, but must do better.



Of all the above, Beltzville is the no-brainer. No real money or anything needed, just a good valve-man (or woman) at the controls...'bout time.
 
Are we trout fisher people a little selfish? Are we so willing to have the temp and flow of a river changed just so that we can trout fish?

What of the population of insects/fish/mammals that already live there? how will they be effected?
 
PennypackFlyer wrote:
Are we trout fisher people a little selfish? Are we so willing to have the temp and flow of a river changed just so that we can trout fish?

What of the population of insects/fish/mammals that already live there? how will they be effected?

Very true. A main lesson that I have learned in my life is that someone will ALWAYS be upset and or disagree with a decision.. I think that the short section of the Raystown Branch from the dam to Point Access has tremendous potential...but then again I like it just the way it is as a smallmouth/rock bass have as well. So it matters not to me.

 
Geebee,
Isn't the Farmington a put & take fishery? Borderline temps and little to no natural reproduction? In that case, fish you wingless caddis all winter....it's not like you're stepping on the next generation. I'm talking about a self sustainable wild population (we put in place). I've never fished for spawning trout. Let them do their thing and make more for next year.

Penny,
We aren't constructing dams to make artificial trout streams. It's simply utilizing the resources that are there. Cold water is pretty difficult to come by and in the lakes mentioned, it's being wasted. What about the bugs and fish? It's not like we are chilling every mile of moving water to 50 degrees.

Using Raystown as an example, the outlet is what, 5-7 miles before hitting the Juanita? The Juanita is over 100 miles long. If 2 miles of it was slightly altered due to the cold water release, that's robbing the warm water fishermen? I think a little cold water mixed in would only help diversity of baitfish and its below the confluence. Many more people are willing to drive 2-3 hours for wild trout fishing. You only have to drive 5-10 minutes to catch bass, cats or carp.
 
I unfortunately think PFBC is once again just expressing its desires to promote a tailwater at Raystown but like most things the dam operator has the final say. The link below is a recent letter expressing the issues with creating a tailwater at Raystown and of course the $$$ with the "structural" changes most likely being the biggest hurdle. It doesn't seem like anything is likely until the ACOE requires the operator to make changes. Sounds like we need a petition. :)

http://www.lowimpacthydro.org/assets/files/Raystown/Attachment%20D%20-%20PA%20Fish%20%26%20Game%20Commission.pdf

 
Doesn't look promising.
 
SBecker wrote:
Yea, they should tear down that dam and restore brook trout. :-|
I didn't say that.
 
Why is the EBCR photod but not mentioned? It holds many wild fish, and yet we continue to stock over it?? The bugs seem to be there and almost all of the streams in the area with accidity issues are back to holding brookies. Rainbows are holding over that are stocked, and this year I have caught more wild browns than I ever have. I wonder if it a result of the dam being removed at Bendigo? The channel is at least 120' deep, when i fish there in 80 degree weather im often in sweatpants and a hoodie, and the water temp is 50-58 degrees.
 
krayfish2 wrote:
Geebee,
Isn't the Farmington a put & take fishery? Borderline temps and little to no natural reproduction? In that case, fish you wingless caddis all winter....it's not like you're stepping on the next generation. I'm talking about a self sustainable wild population (we put in place). I've never fished for spawning trout. Let them do their thing and make more for next year.

sorry bud, my bad - i should have said the West Branch of the Farmington. thats the tailwater, below Hogback Dam.

yes, its wild and stocked. the stocked fish are bred from large wild/holdover fish shocked in the fall by the CT DFW :

http://www.ctfishguides.com/Kierrian%20Article%201%20survivor.html

this is a 'stocked' yearling, 5 years later :

GreenRightPigonTheDry.jpg


not truly wild yes, but it looks fun don't it.

 
Marvin. I've always had similar thoughts about the EBCR. It's possible it gets so little attention bc of where it is located? I don't know. Once it has the temp, which it does, everything else should b gravy.
 
Seen that pic and some others. Meh. Stop stocking and if it still produces fish like that, I'd be impressed. Rivers that grow big, wild fish are very tough to come by. We have opportunities to have one or two of those here in the state. I'm sure the PFBC will find a way to jack it up though.
 
While were at it - why don't we stock salmon in the Delaware
 
PennypackFlyer wrote:
Are we trout fisher people a little selfish? Are we so willing to have the temp and flow of a river changed just so that we can trout fish?

What of the population of insects/fish/mammals that already live there? how will they be effected?

While were at it - why don't we stock salmon in the Delaware



Did you read the article and/or do any research on what the PFBC and many TU as well well as conservation groups are trying to do with this initiative?

The first is Quemahoning Reservoir just south of Hollsopple in Somerset County. Dam construction on Quemahoning Creek was completed way back in 1913. Quemahoning Creek classified is a cold-water fishery it suffers from AMD from coal mines. For decades TU, FBC and many other groups have tried to remediate the AMD.




Francis E. Walter Dam on the Lehigh River on Carbon and Luzerne counties near Whitehaven is also a candidate.

The Lehigh has wild trout right now and it's beginning to blossom because of a lot of groups work to clean up the River itself as well as the tribs.

The commission is currently evaluating flow models from that flood-control dam, owned and operated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, to determine what releases are needed to create a tailwater trout fishery.

Miko noted that the dam’s tower might need to be modified to allow for more bottom releases, and there has been talk of increasing the reservoir’s 80-acre pool to store more cold water.



Lake Wallenpaupack, a hydro-electric dam on Wallenpaupack Creek near Hawley, is the third candidate for creating a tailwater trout fishery.

Wallenpaupack creek is another stream that's a cold water stream but suffers from warm water released by the dam

On the border of Pike and Wayne counties, it is owned by PP&O. Miko said the agency is currently negotiating with power company officials about cold-water releases.



Raystown Dam in Huntingdon County is the fourth candidate selected by commission staff.

Raystown Lake is the largest lake that is entirely within Pennsylvania. It is a hydroelectric project. The 8,300-acre reservoir was completed in 1973 by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Created primarily to control floods, provide electricity and support recreational activities, Raystown dam is currently releasing warm water into the Raystown Branch of the Juniata River.

I'm not sure if the Juniata was ever a cold-water fishery. The Raystown branch flows into the Juniata near the Point. I can attest that SMB thrive in to the water like in the mainstem below the dam on the Delaware River.



Cannonsville Reservoir is also on the commission’s list. The re­ser­voir in Delaware County, New York, was formed by impounding more than half of the West Branch of the Delaware River.

The westernmost of New York City’s reservoirs, put in service in 1964, it is the most recently constructed New York City-owned reservoir.

The commission is involved in complex multi-agency, multi-state negotiations with New York City to increase Cannonsville Dam’s cold-water releases.

The Delaware River West Branch and upper Mainstem is a world class wild trout fishery right now.



The final dam under consideration for the tailwater trout initiative is Beltzville Dam.

The Pohopoco is a wild and stocked trout fishery right now.
A U.S. Army Corps of Engineers flood control project, the dam on Pohopoco Creek creates a 951-acre lake in Carbon County.

Beltzville Dam is already required to meet cold-water release requirements, Miko conceded, but must do better.


Of all the above, Beltzville is the no-brainer. No real money or anything needed, just a good valve-man (or woman) at the controls...'bout time.

Pennypack, what is it about the Tailwater initiative the PFBC is undertaking do you oppose?
 
Go right ahead. It would be a wasted effort much like post #35 in this thread. Many of the current lakes were streams that supported native trout populations prior to logging / construction of the dams. The idea is to expand cold water fishing opportunities and maybe one or two of them will end up as world class trout waters. For those unable to make a trip to Montana, we might end up with something similar much closer to home. I'd expect you to skip fishing those waters based on your posts which is fine. In America, you have that choice.

Tom,
I agree that EBCR's location / remoteness is the reason for the lack of press.
 
Huh, on one side I do like the lack of press. I rarely see other fisherman there but I do believe it could be managed more properly. After the Delayed Harvest the stream basically turns into a put and take fishery.
 
I can't wrap my head around how amazing the Lehigh WILL be when the flow/temperature issues are resolved. I know it won't be anytime soon, but it will be worth the wait. I love fishing it now, and there is so much more potential. I have no opposition to a plan like this, seems like a no-brainer from a trout fisherman's perspective.
 
The Lehigh is currently doing ok with the current issues at the lake. Potential? Oh yes. My question is can the lake handle recreational releases for rafters AND still provide cold water all summer? I haven't seen all the data but is the cold water pool large enough too keep the temp at 68-69 degrees where the Po meets the big river? The project at FEW will require some fight and a pile of money.

More immediate options that shouldn't take anything more than calculating available water and negotiations.... Beltzville, Raystown

Would anyone have issue with one of these project rivers being closed to fishing for 2 years or no harvest regs in place for 3-5 years while populations were establishing and studies were done? Once established, 2 fish per day limit, over 14"-15" would be fine. Closed to angling from spawning to hatch out. Protect the project and let it reach its potential.
 
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