Straight 'Tailwater' Talk

[vcregular]

Did any one see this? Finally it appears this is getting some traction. Beltzville is a no brainer.

 

[TDB]

Thanks for sharing Jake. I had seen this - so much potential statewide!

A couple buddies and I discussed the Raystown tailwater for about 2 hours on our way home from the WBDE yesterday - the potential is incredible, I hope they can get it in gear.

 

[geebee]

the Lehigh below the Dam is 70F today. how will flows reduce that ?

todays flow is above 75%....and temps are cooler up stream...

 

[Fishidiot]

We've discussed this off and on over the last couple years. It's worth pursuing in my opinion. In particular, Raystown could be tremendous. I'd don't know whether any progress has been made in moving down to colder water releases. I've heard some rumors about this situation, but nothing definitive.

 

[SBecker]

geebee wrote:
the Lehigh below the Dam is 70F today. how will flows reduce that ?

todays flow is above 75%....and temps are cooler up stream...

The tower that they can select water at different depths from is broken basically. They can not mix the water or take the water from the proper area at the right time.

The Lehigh needs a new tower, hold a little more water, and possibly raise the dam.

 

[bigslackwater]

What size (acres or depth) does a reservoir have to be to produce a cold water discharge suitable for trout? I imagine some smaller reservoirs are not capable enough fluctuaion in temperature and water volume to make much difference.

 

[wildtrout24]

I know they tried this with the Tionesta outflow with adult stocked trout. I know one of the issues was the Muskie population. The stocking stopped after a few years and have never heard anything else about it.

 

[geebee]

it has to be a minimum of 65ft to produce a constant 55F is what i read a while back. at 65ft not enough sunlight penetrates to warm the water - and 55F is the ideal temp for trout.

which i believe is the problem with the Tully - depth is only 35ft.

Becker, that would sound about right. so they need to invest $$$ AND manage the flows. he omitted to mention that huh ?

 

[SBecker]

This is what the LCFA has basically been working on for years. It's getting there.

 

[streamerguy1]

wildtrout24 wrote:
I know they tried this with the Tionesta outflow with adult stocked trout. I know one of the issues was the Muskie population. The stocking stopped after a few years and have never heard anything else about it.

They still do stock it with adult trout, well I'm 99% sure. I usually don't bother with stockies when I'm up that way lol. I think it's part of the ATW year-round regs.

Yeah, some definitely become musky snacks there(and a few other stocked tailwaters that I fish). That's not necessarily a bad thing though......

 

[Mike]

The article clearly speaks about flow management and flow models. To me, that very practically suggests working within the bounds of existing dam infrastructure.

 

[SBecker]

Nah, it is just mentioning working with the rafters.

 

[Chaz]

I saw it, but it disappoints me they haven't even given a thought to restoring brook trout to any of those waters. That is a no brainer. The Beltzville dam ruined a very good brookie fishery, and so did FEW.

 

[SBecker]

Yea, they should tear down that dam and restore brook trout. :-|

 

[geebee]

chaz does have an interesting point though - for coldwater tailwater fisheries why aren't they stocking brood stock produced brookies ? rather than browns n rainbows ?

i think, but i'm not sure, that it might be a habitat issue ? - i can't think of any tailwaters where brookies dominate even out of state - they are all browns,bows in MA & CT, bows in NH and in ME LL Salmon.

perhaps brookies are just not suited to big fast water with little bug life ?

 

[SBecker]

Yea. They just suck.

 

[PennKev]

geebee wrote:
chaz does have an interesting point though - for coldwater tailwater fisheries why aren't they stocking brood stock produced brookies ? rather than browns n rainbows ?

i think, but i'm not sure, that it might be a habitat issue ? - i can't think of any tailwaters where brookies dominate even out of state - they are all browns,bows in MA & CT, bows in NH and in ME LL Salmon.

perhaps brookies are just not suited to big fast water with little bug life ?

Brookies need colder water than our most of our tailwaters provide. I think there is a misconception that all the water coming out of bottom release dams is ice cold.

It's not.

 

[streamerguy1]

I know brooks are common in the Clarion tailwater.........even in the summer. They don't stock the river itself with brookies, but apparently the stocked brookies swim out of the tribs that have acidity issues.

 

[LongWader]

I know they have been talking about creating a tailrace fishery with the Raystown Branch for about 10-12 years now and it is a great opportunity, however I have not heard anything new for a long time. I had pretty much given up hope.

 

[krayfish2]

Did anyone read the thread title? Taliwater talk = brookie biitchfest? The cost involved with Lehigh and the ww rafters will likely be that river's thorn in the side. I think the others stand a better chance of being successful.

First off, the lake needs to be large enough and deep enough to have a sufficient cold water pool. Secondly, the outflow needs to be managed correctly to provide cold water when it's critical to survival of the fish / invertebrates. Fall short on either and you get fish kills or fall way short of desired result. We have to remember that most of the lakes were built for flood control and that's their primary function.

Lastly and for God's sake.......obtain eggs from wild fish for these projects. Planting the geneticly engineered zebra / leopard spotted browns that the PFBC turns out probably won't make it. Close the river to fishing for a year or so to permit the population to get established uninterrupted. Rivers that flourish and show a strong wild population growth, should have protected spawning water and/or be closed to fishing from October 30 to March 15.