Snakehead Woes and bias

[poopdeck]

Time to end the controversy. I am the real Poopy. I am also sure it is said with love not hate.

Fred thanks for continually posting articles written by non-expert snakehead fishing enthusiast media writers claiming media writers have given snakeheads a bad name. Continue posting videos of experts claiming angler harvest of snakeheads is needed and has been successful in trying to maintain balance. Your proving my point without knowing it.

Again, I'm not advocating the total elimination of snakeheads. It seems impossible according to the experts. I'm simply saying do what the experts think should be done to control them. One thing that seems to be undisputed is the need to control them. You can eat them if you like. This way everybody can be happy.

 

[outsider]

I will not feel good about yet another predatory invasive species. Somehow flathead catfish are appearing in different waterways in eastern PA. Unless it against PAFBC regulations, I will kill everyone I catch. Just like I would kill rusty crayfish (if that is the name). Killifish in our waterways?

 

[outsider]

From the PAf&BC web site:

IF YOU CATCH ONE
Anglers catching Snakeheads should dispose of them properly. Anglers suspecting they have caught a Snakehead are encouraged to NOT release it, and report it to the Commission at 610-847-2442 or via email.

Perhaps some know better than them.

 

[jifigz]

outsider wrote:
I will not feel good about yet another predatory invasive species. Somehow flathead catfish are appearing in different waterways in eastern PA. Unless it against PAFBC regulations, I will kill everyone I catch. Just like I would kill rusty crayfish (if that is the name). Killifish in our waterways?

Flatheads worry me too more. I have known they've been up in my neck of the woods for some time in the Juniata. If I recall correctly Klingy posted a picture years ago of one he nabbed on a streamer. Now, this fish below, is the first big flathead that I've seen from the upper Juniata. This does not make me happy. Snakeheads are totally different creatures but I fear flatheads a lot more.

A disclaimer. I didn't catch this fish nor did I see it caught. A winery customer showed the picture to me and I have no reason to doubt them..

 

[FarmerDave]

outsider wrote:
I will not feel good about yet another predatory invasive species. Somehow flathead catfish are appearing in different waterways in eastern PA. Unless it against PAFBC regulations, I will kill everyone I catch. Just like I would kill rusty crayfish (if that is the name). Killifish in our waterways?

Outsider, or should I call you "not poopy";-), I don't feel good about it either, but I personally am more concerned with invasive species that muck up the bottom end of the food chain. Take the silver and big head carp now running roughshod through the Mississippi drainage. There are places now where they account for 90% of the biomass and this is a huge flowing watershed.

On the other hand, there are sections where they haven't taken over even though they can be found in large numbers below and above those sections.

This probably indicates that they simply do well in waters already impaired.

Anyway, that would be a different thread.

Back to snakeheads. IMO Frederick is correct on the main point. Snakehead will not be nearly as devastating as initially reported (IMO). That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Press loves to sensationalize nearly everything and I am sure that sold a lot of copy (and it'e electronic version). It's obvious (to me) that they are and will continue to have impact. But to what extent, who knows. In waters that have an imbalance of fish, they can ever have a long term positive impact, but I don't support using invasive species for that. This has been tried with so many thing and usually creates other negatives.

Can these fish take over an entire pond in Maryland (for example). I have no doubt that they can. But can they take over a more open environment that has healthy predator prey relationship? Probably not.

Do not read that as support for Snakeheads. I don't support them. I am not glad that they are here, nor do I think they should be propagated or introduced into new waters. But it is likely that they will have less impact than Brown Trout have had on Brook Trout. IMO of course.

If I catch any, I will likely kill them. I definitely will if I catch one in a place where they are not known to be established. If I catch one in Fred's favorite frog water where they are well established? Maybe.;-)

 

[Dave_W]

Reagrding snakeheads, do we know how far upriver in the Delaware system they have reached?

 

[Fredrick]

Dave_W wrote:
Reagrding snakeheads, do we know how far upriver in the Delaware system they have reached?

I know they are past Trenton NJ I’m sure they are up a little ways from there by now .

 

[Fredrick]

Fourth video of the series
https://youtu.be/hYdZ3YjEafM

 

[outsider]

From WGAL:

http://www.wgal.com/article/fisherman-reels-in-invasive-frankenfish-in-the-susquehanna-valley/22374287

 

[moon1284]

Dave_W wrote:
Reagrding snakeheads, do we know how far upriver in the Delaware system they have reached?

I caught one in shinhopple a couple weeks ago (kidding). I will say I've noticed fewer eels in the upper delaware the past two years compared to years past.

 

[outsider]

jifigz wrote:

outsider wrote:
I will not feel good about yet another predatory invasive species. Somehow flathead catfish are appearing in different waterways in eastern PA. Unless it against PAFBC regulations, I will kill everyone I catch. Just like I would kill rusty crayfish (if that is the name). Killifish in our waterways?

Flatheads worry me too more. I have known they've been up in my neck of the woods for some time in the Juniata. If I recall correctly Klingy posted a picture years ago of one he nabbed on a streamer. Now, this fish below, is the first big flathead that I've seen from the upper Juniata. This does not make me happy. Snakeheads are totally different creatures but I fear flatheads a lot more.

A disclaimer. I didn't catch this fish nor did I see it caught. A winery customer showed the picture to me and I have no reason to doubt them..

When a predatory fish is introduced into a marine eco-system, something has to give. Well, maybe not if they bring their own lunch.

 

[Mike]

They are known to be as far up the Delaware as Point Pleasant, which is 25 miles above tide. One rumor also had them about five more miles upstream from there, and that could be true. Washington Crossing and Scudders Falls seem to be hot spots above the head of tide. Snakeheads also become prey, as I saw photos of a water snake wrestling with and consuming a small adult snakehead along Tohickon Ck at Point Pleasant.

 

[jifigz]

Mike wrote:
Snakeheads also become prey, as I saw photos of a water snake wrestling with and consuming a small adult snakehead along Tohickon Ck at Point Pleasant.

Well of course they become prey. I'm not trying to sound like a smart a** here, but I never understood why there was some belief that fish will have "no natural predators." Fish are really, really stupid and many are highly aggressive and predatory. I have caught a huge variety of fish on things that look like nothing a fish has probably ever even seen so to think that other fish, snakes, etc wouldn't eat a small real fish they aren't used to is crazy. Seriously, the only animals that won't prey on them are those that don't come into contact with them and those that can't fit them in their mouth.

 

[jifigz]

I don't really keep track of the snakehead thing. If they are in Point Pleasant and that is roughly their current upriver spot in the Delaware, how far up are they in the Potomac and the Susky these days?

 

[afishinado]

Snakehead info from the PFBC site posted 7/18 in the SE Fishing Reports:

SE PA Fishing Reports PFBC

 

[Dave_W]

jifigz wrote:
... how far up are they in the Potomac and the Susky these days?

SH in the Susky are blocked by the Conowingo Dam (I'm not sure about current use of the shad lift, this could get them over the dam, maybe already has).

SH in the Potomac are blocked by the Great Falls just upstream from Wash DC. This natural obstacle has been a block on the movement of all migratory fishes. Multiple efforts were made in the past to build fish ladders to allow shad and striped bass to get upriver, but these efforts failed. Nowadays, fish barriers are valued in that they block invasives.

In recent years, SH have turned up in some watered sections of the C&O Canal that are upriver from the Great Falls. While the C&O Canal and the Potomac River are separate, there is concern that a big flood event will bring the river up and into the canal and this will eventually introduce SH to the upper Potomac.

 

[jifigz]

Dave, it is my understanding that snakeheads have been found above great falls on the Potomac about 3 years ago. They believe an angler moved them upstream of the falls. I'm sure that someone will get them over the Conowingo too.

 

[Fredrick]

Much better wording of the regs
IF YOU CATCH ONE
Anglers catching Snakeheads should dispose of them properly. Leaving fish carcasses on the bank is not proper disposal. Anglers suspecting they have caught a Snakehead are encouraged to NOT release it and report it to the Commission at the contact information on our Snakehead web page on the website at

 

[afishinado]

jifigz wrote:
Dave, it is my understanding that snakeheads have been found above great falls on the Potomac about 3 years ago. They believe an angler moved them upstream of the falls. I'm sure that someone will get them over the Conowingo too.

There are anglers that love fishing for snakeheads and have made it their mission to illegally catch and transfer them to additional waterways.

Here is a quote from an article published by an ichthyologist at Virginia Tech:

"An effective snakehead solution will rely on dealing with the unauthorized release into public waters. Humans are the vector. Humans are the solution."

Here is a link to the very informative article mentioned above:

Virginia Tech Snakehead Article

 

[sarce]

The snakehead above great falls did not come from an angler. They thrive in the C&O canal, which runs along the tidal river in DC all the way to WV. It is most likely that the snakehead swam up the canal to get well past the falls and then entered the river during a flood. Often the river floods high enough to overflow into the canal. I think there have been a couple found in the river above the falls but no signs of them taking hold yet (but it's extremely early to say whether that will happen or not).