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outsider
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Am I going to tell you about a person singular or persons?
Dave_W
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This thread, unfortunately, has turned to trolling and name calling and is at risk of no longer serving any valuable purpose.
If it does not return to constructive discussion, it will be removed.
Thanks,
DW
If it does not return to constructive discussion, it will be removed.
Thanks,
DW
Fredrick
Well-known member
I’m not sure what to say I started this thread for people to voice there opinions in a open discussion and it seems like I’m the one getting attacked . If anything it seems you are the one trying to censor people. A success thread is a norm for the warm water section of this forum it’s the WW equivalent to a stream report and I honor it as such . The thread turned into a debate on snakeheads and that was not my intention of starting the thread, so I started this one for people to discuss
Fredrick
Well-known member
Snakeheads- Love them or hate them
I feel like ranting… Snakeheads have been caught by hook and line for over fourteen years and the controversy still rages. They will kill our environment is the cry from some folks that only know what the media put out over 16 years ago and never bothered to do any new research into these fish, it isn’t new news, so the media has moved on and people are left with what they first remembered and believed.
The media only got one right…they are good table fare. They don’t walk on land, they aren’t going to eat your dogs & cats and grand moms don’t be alarmed, they aren’t going to eat your grand kids. They don’t spawn 5 times a year. They don’t eat everything in sight. They are somewhat shy and lazy.
Basically they are minnow eaters, primary banded killifish and bluegill. I have chased this great gamefish for pushing a decade and I can say I have not seen any change in the fishery. Matter of fact where bass and snakeheads coexist I have seen the bass seem to be larger. I guess this isn’t the snakehead eating the bass (Virginia has open over 1500 snakeheads and found only about 3% bass in their stomachs, BUT, I bet every bass has baby snakeheads in them). They have no hard fins so they are prey for all fish. Why do you think they lay so many eggs? Not many will survive.
I have always thought that most folks that fly the banner… “Kill the snakehead” and wants you to know it, has never caught one, for if they had they too would see what great battlers they are. Any fisherman that likes bass fishing surely will like the fight of a snakehead. Maybe not the bass tournament guys, they think they are going to eat all their beloved bass, which by the way was introduced and are not native. These guys feel the same way about chain pickerel which they believe don’t belong in THEIR waters. They don’t know that the pickerel is a native fish that once covered the whole east coast and all the way to the Mississippi. Maybe the introduction of the bass in their waters took a toll, because they aren’t everywhere anymore.
A few fishermen lose the full fighting aspect of snakehead by fishing with bait on the bottom, yes they will catch fish and that is alright, but these fish are one of the best top water fish around. The whole experience is visible, from the initial follow to the sound of the fish closing its jaw on the bait. Its music to my ears, can’t get enough of it.
Before I decided to go on this rant, I looked up the bowfin on Wikipedia. This fish is a close second to the snakehead in many ways and they have been around for 30,000,000 years and guess what, haven’t destroyed the environment.
More and more fishermen are touting the fishing quality of the snakehead and feel as strong as I do they are a worthy opponent. It has been taking time and we snakeheaders need to help educate folks that they aren’t the “frankenfish” that the media and uninformed believe or what they want you to believe without any scientific information. So the next time someone says…”Kill the snakehead” just ask them if they have ever caught one. You already know the answer, just walk away; they don’t know what we know.
IMG_00https://joebruceflyfishing.wordpress.com
FarmerDave
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The non-anecdotal stuff that Fredrick provided is accurate. I can't speak for the anecdotal because I haven't fished for either.
Both are very aggressive ambush predators.
Both can live in a variety of water conditions but seem to thrive in stagnant water because they can breath air. Little competition other than with each other.
Bowfin build nests and the male defends the brood. Both parents of Snakehead defend the brood in a ball.
There are many species of shakehead. I think a total of three have been introduced in the US. Definitely two. The ones we are talking about are Northern Snakehead which can be found in parts of Russia, China, and both Koreas. It gets very cold there.
I think the biggest advantage that snakehead have over bowfin would be reproduction rate. Whether or not this is enough to displace the bowfin is debatable.
Any questions?
P.S. I'm no expert, but info is available out there if people can get past their bias and look it up.
jifigz
Well-known member
This is purely my opinion, but I don't see snakeheads having much of an effect on the majority of our waterways. I think that most of our rivers have more current than they prefer and so they would be found in the slack water areas. I don't think that they are going to our smallmouth populations. For those of you that are worried about trout being displaced, I really don't think the snakehad would be at home in trout streams. Trout waters are generally higher gradient, colder, with less areas of super slack water that is densley vegetated.
FarmerDave
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I beg to differ in one point. It is clear to me that they can decimate other aquatic fauna in certain situations. I've fished in abandoned cranberry bogs in the pine barons where chain pickerel have wiped out nearly everything else and survive by cannibalism. I'd be foolish to thing snakehead couldn't do the same in similar situations.
I mostly agree with this, however thy can spawn up to 5 times in a year. I have no idea if they do where you fish, they absolutely can. That is scientific fact.
They may not eat everything in sight, but they do eat anything they want. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is what it is. It's an apex predator in many cases.
Actually if you are seeing larger bass, it likely does mean the snakeheads are eating the smaller bass. Removing the smaller and midsize bass is one of the keys to managing a pond for bigger bass. I could explain this more, but don't feel a need.
I don't know where you got the 3% figure, but if you understand predator prey relationships (and ratios), this number isn't at all out of line. PRey always outnuber predators by a huge amount. So, 3% doesn't mean that they aren't eating many bass. Relatively speaking, they likely are. It just means they aren't specifically targeting bass. In other words, they are indiscriminate just like most predators.
FarmerDave
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That is my opinion too.
Same reason you don't see bowfin there.
I agree with the opinion that they won't be as devastating as originally stated.
Where they are at already, there are there to stay whether we kill or release the ones we might catch. What I don't want to see is opinionated bucket biologists spreading them to other lakes and ponds, but I spose this is inevitable.
FarmerDave
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My earlier is mostly opinion neutral and you come back with that?
If you mean the fishing video, I think I did see it before. Looks like fun.
Not sure I would kill one there, but I definitely wouldn't eat it.
If you mean the fishing video, I think I did see it before. Looks like fun.
Not sure I would kill one there, but I definitely wouldn't eat it.
Fredrick
Well-known member
It’s a video of a electro shocking for snakeheads with a Virginia fishery biologist. Allot of questions are answered in this video they even talk about Bowfin. I must of copied wrong link some how sorry
https://youtu.be/R23-ThVeZ8o
FarmerDave
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No it isn't.
Apparently you posted the wrong link.
About that location...
I probably wouldn't kill one, and her is why.
1. It wouldn't make any difference at this point.
2. Even as a bass and panfish fan, I know that these predators will likely reduce the numbers of bass, panfish, etc, but the bass that are left, will be bigger.
But if I catch one in a local lake, I will kill it with extreme prejudice.
Apparently you posted the wrong link.
About that location...
I probably wouldn't kill one, and her is why.
1. It wouldn't make any difference at this point.
2. Even as a bass and panfish fan, I know that these predators will likely reduce the numbers of bass, panfish, etc, but the bass that are left, will be bigger.
But if I catch one in a local lake, I will kill it with extreme prejudice.
FarmerDave
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i watched part of it, then got busy.
What was supposed to learn from that?
That electo-fishing and removal can keep them in check? ;-)
tomgamber
Well-known member
what Fred meant to say was "I don't why it WOULDN'T be snakes heads..." 
afishinado
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tomgamber wrote:
what Fred meant to say was "I don't why it WOULDN'T be snakes heads..."
:lol: :lol: :lol:
int: int: int:
sgrim
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tomgamber wrote:
what Fred meant to say was "I don't why it WOULDN'T be snakes heads..."
Nice touch!
