Shocked by Mergansers

[PaulK]

Have you ever seen a Merganser eat an 8" trout?

I'll tell the story. I hit a local river today that's not well known for trout, but is stocked in the spring. I expected to drum up a few smallmouth bass. I walked the rocky riverbank downstream of the town bridge and fished a little woolybugger variation. I caught a 10" bass, then 4 mergansers showed up, swam around briefly and swam downstream.

I fished my way upstream to the town bridge where I saw a rise. I put on a Griffin's Gnat and had one hell of an hour. I hooked, played and lost an 18" brown, then netted 2 sixteen inch browns and finally a 12" brown. My head was spinning. I can only assume the river recieved a fall stocking.

The mergansers showed up at the bridge. They started fishing. They would lurch forward in the river and beat their wings, lurching forward again. Other times, they completely went under., swimming fast forward. All four did this in close quarters,--so were they hunting as a team? One merganser came from the river with an 8" trout in its mouth, like a giant mustache! The others ran to it, but the merganser flipped the trout in a split second down its throat whole. It was gone. That was my fish!!

Now unscientificlly I understand where the stocked trout go after spring stocking. I always assumed mergansers had their minnow diet and that's all. I've personally stocked remote creeks and returned to find no trout. And one creek in particular always has mergansers in a big family. It looks to me now that we're just supporting Mergansers Unlimited. I learned alot today!!

 

[Dave_W]

Interesting story. Unless the stream is privately stocked, I'd guess the trout you caught were from a springtime stocking and held over the summer (which is common on streams with cold temps).

I have mixed feelings about all the avian predators on our trout streams these days. I cringed when I saw a cormorant cruising in the ditch at Big Spring some years ago. I see more ospreys and eagles (far more) that I used to see across PA; there are more kingfishers too. Another bird I see a lot more of than in the past is green herons (saw one yesterday).

And of course, as we have discussed here before, great blue herons seem to be everywhere these days. I'd make an unscientific guess that , on the creeks I fish, there is a GBH, on average, for every 150-300 yards of stream whereas a generation ago there was one or two per stream. These birds are eating a lot of fish.

Of course, like many of you, I love birds and enjoy seeing them and am deeply thankful that we seem to have so many more fish eating birds to watch and enjoy when we're out fishing.

 

[steliejim]

Floated the Juniata before Ida and saw more herons than I could count. I imagine they do quite a of damage.

Never been a fan of the disease carrying birds, much less those who put a hurting on the fish population.

 

[jifigz]

Why not love em? Our brown trout population, and wild trout in general, are doing better than they were when there were less fish eating birds. Let the birds have their share and we can have ours, too. Trout populations are great, smallmouth in the Juniata/Susky watershed are acceptable and probably being hurt by things caused by people more than birds. I'm all for nature living alongside people. If you really hate megansers, then you can smoke one on October 9th..enjoy.

 

[Troutmeister]

I've seen flocks of mergansers doing the exact same thing several times. Most recently last week on the Little Lehigh but also on the Jordan and Bowmans.They get side by side and herd the fish into coves and pockets and to the head of riffles.

On the LL last week I watched a Blue heron grab a trout and swing it overhead. I think it was going to swallow it but the trout flipped out of its mouth and landed a couple feet behind. I watched from directly across the stream as that trout sped back into deeper water. Way too many predators out there.

 

[bigjohn58]

I personally watched mergansers take down full size 12" trout. I watched 2 of them take down the trout then swim over to the side of the creek to just sit and relax probably letting their meals digest. It took both of them a while to get the trout turned and get the tails down. I bet the tail was sticking out of the one's mouth for almost a minute.

On a side note there seems to be more and more mergansers. They seem to have no real predators and are multiplying at a huge rate. They just recently did a fingerling stocking on my local stream and I'm seeing mergansers in almost every hole. When I fish the West Branch Susquehanna I see flocks of 30+. When I was younger we didn't have them around like that thats for sure!

 

[bigjohn58]

jifigz wrote:
Why not love em? Our brown trout population, and wild trout in general, are doing better than they were when there were less fish eating birds. Let the birds have their share and we can have ours, too. Trout populations are great, smallmouth in the Juniata/Susky watershed are acceptable and probably being hurt by things caused by people more than birds. I'm all for nature living alongside people. If you really hate megansers, then you can smoke one on October 9th..enjoy.

I completely disagree with what you just mentioned here. There are more predators now than 30+ years ago. Combine that with other environmental issues and I'm seeing a decrease in a lot of fish populations. Some areas are doing well but I can't say that about most.

 

[Mike]

You should be glad to see more avian predators. Some, such as bald eagles and ospreys were being limited by DDT and its derivatives in the environment. The cessation of DDT’s use and gradual reduction in its presence in aquatic systems brought these birds back. That’s good news for all of us.

 

[jifigz]

bigjohn58 wrote:

jifigz wrote:
Why not love em? Our brown trout population, and wild trout in general, are doing better than they were when there were less fish eating birds. Let the birds have their share and we can have ours, too. Trout populations are great, smallmouth in the Juniata/Susky watershed are acceptable and probably being hurt by things caused by people more than birds. I'm all for nature living alongside people. If you really hate megansers, then you can smoke one on October 9th..enjoy.

I completely disagree with what you just mentioned here. There are more predators now than 30+ years ago. Combine that with other environmental issues and I'm seeing a decrease in a lot of fish populations. Some areas are doing well but I can't say that about most.

Really? Aren't you in Clinton County? I can't imagine your wild trout are doing poorly. They are thriving every where I fish. So, just for instance, where have you seen major declines and where can you chalk it up to birds? And, if you cared, quit fishing because you hurt the fish as well. Heaven forbid we hook something in the face for fun and hope that it survives let alone us hating a bird for eating.

So does that mean you are going to shoot some mergansers this duck season? You're natural and have all prospects of being a predator. Give it some thought.

I mean no disrespect..I just want to understand.

And if you read my first post it says THERE ARE MORE BIRDS OF PREY EATING FISH AND MORE TROUT, AND ALL SEEMS FINE.

I said there were less birds years ago.....same thing you reaffirmed in different language.

 

[jifigz]

bigjohn58 wrote:

jifigz wrote:
Why not love em? Our brown trout population, and wild trout in general, are doing better than they were when there were less fish eating birds. Let the birds have their share and we can have ours, too. Trout populations are great, smallmouth in the Juniata/Susky watershed are acceptable and probably being hurt by things caused by people more than birds. I'm all for nature living alongside people. If you really hate megansers, then you can smoke one on October 9th..enjoy.

I completely disagree with what you just mentioned here. There are more predators now than 30+ years ago. Combine that with other environmental issues and I'm seeing a decrease in a lot of fish populations. Some areas are doing well but I can't say that about most.

One more question would be how do you know the populations are doing poorly? Because of your angling success?

 

[bigjohn58]

Mike wrote:
You should be glad to see more avian predators. Some, such as bald eagles and ospreys were being limited by DDT and its derivatives in the environment. The cessation of DDT’s use and gradual reduction in its presence in aquatic systems brought these birds back. That’s good news for all of us.

Its nice to see the eagles make a comeback BUT when I float down the West Branch Susquehanna and I'm seeing 7 different bald eagles, a dozen egrets, 2 dozen or more blue herons, 100+ mergansers, etc that's a lot of predators for a few mile stretch of the river. Its easier to go out and find a bald eagle now then it is to find a turkey. They are so common its not even a big deal anymore.

 

[bigjohn58]

jifigz wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:

jifigz wrote:
Why not love em? Our brown trout population, and wild trout in general, are doing better than they were when there were less fish eating birds. Let the birds have their share and we can have ours, too. Trout populations are great, smallmouth in the Juniata/Susky watershed are acceptable and probably being hurt by things caused by people more than birds. I'm all for nature living alongside people. If you really hate megansers, then you can smoke one on October 9th..enjoy.

I completely disagree with what you just mentioned here. There are more predators now than 30+ years ago. Combine that with other environmental issues and I'm seeing a decrease in a lot of fish populations. Some areas are doing well but I can't say that about most.

Really? Aren't you in Clinton County? I can't imagine your wild trout are doing poorly. They are thriving every where I fish. So, just for instance, where have you seen major declines and where can you chalk it up to birds? And, if you cared, quit fishing because you hurt the fish as well. Heaven forbid we hook something in the face for fun and hope that it survives let alone us hating a bird for eating.

So does that mean you are going to shoot some mergansers this duck season? You're natural and have all prospects of being a predator. Give it some thought.

I mean no disrespect..I just want to understand.

And if you read my first post it says THERE ARE MORE BIRDS OF PREY EATING FISH AND MORE TROUT, AND ALL SEEMS FINE.

I said there were less birds years ago.....same thing you reaffirmed in different language.

Go to Rag Valley Bridge once on Fishing Creek and look what you see. Last time I was there there were 4 mergansers and a blue wing heron. They have that spot cleaned out. They have the rainbow fingerlings that were just recently stocked on Fishing Creek really thinned out too. In all honesty I think those fingerlings attract the mergansers. As for hunting them there is no way a hunter can put that much of a dent on the mergansers. There are literally just too many. I don't mind seeing some predators BUT when you see one around every turn in the creek it starts to get a little annoying.

 

[RLeep2]

Well, if nothing else, this thread sort of confirms for me something I thought I was seeing but wasn't sure how well my memory was working. When we moved back to PA in 2015, it seemed to me like I was seeing a lot more mergansers on the water than I used to before we moved away in 1999.

Evidently, it isn't creeping senility.. There are more mergansers around than there were 20+ years ago.

So far as what damage they may be doing to fish populations, I'm always hesitant to firmly believe I know how the natural world reacts to these things. Thinking otherwise has make a monkey of me more than once. All in all, I don't really like seeing so many mergansers on the streams, but I would imagine they probably feel the same about me..

 

[moon1284]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2016/01/25/trout-fishing-off-hungry-ducks-may-reason/79116562/

I hate mergansers. I watched them absolutley decimate a wild trout population. Although the population appears to be coming back 5 years later.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

For all you merganser haters, I hope you are out on your favorite trout stream in a few weeks taking limits of mergansers when the season opens up. Bonus points if you include your friends!

 

[troutbert]

There are definitely far more mergansers than years ago. And ospreys and eagles.

And probably all for the same reason, the restrictions on the use of DDT.

 

[Mike]

As water quality and fish populations improve across the range of these predators and if fish abundance was the primary limiting factor, then of course you will see more individual predators. Most of these avian predators described here are also habituating to human activity, allowing them to nest in habitats that were not previously occupied. That is particularly true if there is an ample food supply near-by. Near-by is relative though, as herons will fly many miles from the rookery to get or gather a good meal. As a personally observed example, when gizzard shad were established in Nockamixon Lake via a 1976 stocking, that was the beginning of large numbers of mergansers showing up each spring during migration and as the ice was going out. This did not happen prior to gizzard shad establishment. (Gizzard shad existed in very high densities once the introduced fish started to reproduce).

 

[Sylvaneous]

Dave_W wrote:
Interesting story. Unless the stream is privately stocked, I'd guess the trout you caught were from a springtime stocking and held over the summer (which is common on streams with cold temps).

I have mixed feelings about all the avian predators on our trout streams these days. I cringed when I saw a cormorant cruising in the ditch at Big Spring some years ago. I see more ospreys and eagles (far more) that I used to see across PA; there are more kingfishers too. Another bird I see a lot more of than in the past is green herons (saw one yesterday).

And of course, as we have discussed here before, great blue herons seem to be everywhere these days. I'd make an unscientific guess that , on the creeks I fish, there is a GBH, on average, for every 150-300 yards of stream whereas a generation ago there was one or two per stream. These birds are eating a lot of fish.

Of course, like many of you, I love birds and enjoy seeing them and am deeply thankful that we seem to have so many more fish eating birds to watch and enjoy when we're out fishing.

And we can shoot every terrestrial predator, but NO avian ones. Furred predators not good. Feathered predators OK?
Syl

 

[FarmerDave]

Sylvaneous wrote:


And we can shoot every terrestrial predator, but NO avian ones. Furred predators not good. Feathered predators OK?
Syl

That is not entirely true.

Go ahead and shoot mergansers, but make sure to do it in season and don't forget to buy a federal stamp. But I hear they are not fit to eat. Probably taste like blue heron. ;-)

The difference is that, we are talking about migratory birds which cross federal boundaries and covered by the Migratory Bird Treat Act and therefore under FEDERAL regulation in addition to state. There is no such treaty for fur bearing predators.

Disclaimer: I am not a duck hunter, so I could be wrong on some of that. But the point is correct.

 

[bigjohn58]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
For all you merganser haters, I hope you are out on your favorite trout stream in a few weeks taking limits of mergansers when the season opens up. Bonus points if you include your friends!

No way will hunters be able to put a dent in the population the way things are now.