Public Comment on Spruce Creek

Regarding the Spruce Creek section near Indian Caverns: Since there is a parking lot there and since it is only about 800 yards long, why not make it a CRAT children's fishing area for, let's say, kids 12 and under? With the lot, it would be convenient for parents to haul their kids' gear and easily get it and the kids to the creek. Since, apparently, stocked trout sift into the area, the fish might provide an enjoyable fishing experience for kids.

Just a thought.
 
@RRT...I hadn't thought about that, but that is an excellent idea and I would be all for it. Setting aside places like that for kids would be a great way to get them into the sport and possibly increase license sales later once they are the required age to purchase one.
 
rrt wrote:
Regarding the Spruce Creek section near Indian Caverns: Since there is a parking lot there and since it is only about 800 yards long, why not make it a CRAT children's fishing area for, let's say, kids 12 and under? With the lot, it would be convenient for parents to haul their kids' gear and easily get it and the kids to the creek. Since, apparently, stocked trout sift into the area, the fish might provide an enjoyable fishing experience for kids.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It would be a perfect place for a kid-friendly fishing place.
 
As for Frankie, I respect his mind-numbing upstream spinner casting and tedious calculation/year end number of trout caught compilation with statistical analysis, but I can't say much for the person. I don't go on HuntingPA (Frank's breeding ground) and throw shade at his techniques or stories. I'm not sure when/why he developed his perception that all fly-fishermen are elitist snobs, but painting with such a broad brush is severely misguided; couldn't be further from the truth and does nothing to further the agenda of protecting the resource where all hands on deck are needed. My advice to Frankie would be to try and show some respect and he might get some in return.
 
While we may prefer artificial lures, a kid's section, or whatever. . .

If my understanding is correct, the proposal open to comment is to change it from statewide regs with harvest, to all catch and release. We're really just talking about aspirational potential here when getting off on pointless tangents about tackle etc.

Making that section C&R is an improvement. I recommend contacting the PFBC and voting in favor of the proposal.
 
Very interesting, I have been in the fly fishing business for 33 years now! Sold flies to shops, sold necks, sold hooks, sold rods. Fly fishing has been my deal! Built and sold leaders all over the east coast and around the world. You had to see the leaders, even though they were packed in Shop owners cards. You know, the ones with red twist ties. Son has this business now. So must have done something right for 33 years and still going.


However, I also like to bait fish and have been known to use bobbers. I love using a bobber and wax worm at headwaters of Tobyhanna state park lake. Lots of brook trout.

My father served in Africa and Italy. My uncle served in Guadalcanal. My friend served in the Battle of the bulge. A lot of there friends did not come home from WW2.
When they got home all they wanted to do is go fishing. Yes, after all the horror of war, fishing. All 3 fished bait and I was taught bait. Loved bait fishing. All 3 are gone now. I taught myself fly fishing. But with regret, if the 3 were still alive, I might one day say, " Sorry, you can't fish here". Just flies and lures. They were not slobs or morons for fishing bait. They were hero's so we all could fish!

Now I know this is a fly fishing site and you all get ruffled about fishing other ways. I keep fish, I give fish away, I smoke in the smoker about 100 a year. The smoked trout don't last long. Seems when I am done smoking trout, I get lot's of company. A real treat for many!

Now to the point. You want fishing to grow strong in Pa. When fishing in Pa. is on a steady decline!

Share! The name of the game. Lot's of room on every stream for fishermen doing their own thing! I buy a license, I can fish everywhere as a fly guy. Bait guys buy the same license and they are not allowed access to all! Guess my money is sweeter and greener!

Have a great day in your world!

Maxima12
 
Not exactly Maxima12...There are some differences between fly fisherman and bait fisherman and no its not an elitist mindset. Most fly fisherman want to have trout to catch and they practice catch and release so that others can catch them again. Most bait fisherman are there to get their limit and fill the freezer. Two different mindsets. Also when it comes to special regulation water they are stocked less than open stocked waters so if for anything the guys that fish the special regulation areas should be complaining the loudest.

Ron
 
As for opening up these areas for kids I just don't understand the mindset. I was up early and on the stream with my dad when I was a kid and fished right alongside adults. I then taught myself to fly fish and fished the special regulation and also open waters as a teen. I didn't need special attention, designated area or days to fish as a kid so what has changed? Let's just face it....kids are loosing interest and it has nothing to do with open or closed waters or even less trout being stocked. Kids and parents are doing other things now a days and not interested in the outdoor activities other than soccer, baseball or football. I love to see kids and our youth hunting and fishing but its a different society we live in today. Just stating the facts....

Ron
 
PALongbow wrote:
Not exactly Maxima12...There are some differences between fly fisherman and bait fisherman and no its not an elitist mindset. Most fly fisherman want to have trout to catch and they practice catch and release so that others can catch them again. Most bait fisherman are there to get their limit and fill the freezer. Two different mindsets. Also when it comes to special regulation water they are stocked less than open stocked waters so if for anything the guys that fish the special regulation areas should be complaining the loudest.

Ron
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Do you know for a fact that most bait fisherman are there to get their limit and fill the freezer? I personally don't think this is the case and that mindset only serves to cement the exact "us vs. them" mindset that was called out on a non-flyfisherman in an earlier post. My observations of the few stocked streams I fished this year were of a large number of bait anglers returning their catch to the stream unharmed.

At the end of the day, there's a human holding onto a fishing pole, regardless of what the reel looks like (or if there even is a reel) and regardless if what is on the end of the line is a chunk of metal, is alive, or was once alive, or is a tuft of hair and artificial sparkly thing with a piece of chicken feather attached, we're still matching wits with something with a brain the size of a pea. Some humans are just bad eggs, regardless of how they choose to fish, and this is not limited to bait fishermen or spinner fishermen. He who chooses to fight that trophy fish on 7x tippet for 20 minutes in 68 degree water? Might as well put that one in the freezer..

At times, my fishing has resembled all three - bait, spin, and fly. I fish how I want to fish on a given day. It's a lot easier to throw a salmon egg on a jig under a float in crowded kid's section, than it would be for a ten-year old to try and cast a fly rod; it's a lot more respectful of the other young anglers there as well. I guess it's human nature to want to silo ourselves by the ways that we are different, when in reality, we're all a lot more similar than we are different.
 
rrt wrote:
Regarding the Spruce Creek section near Indian Caverns: Since there is a parking lot there and since it is only about 800 yards long, why not make it a CRAT children's fishing area for, let's say, kids 12 and under? With the lot, it would be convenient for parents to haul their kids' gear and easily get it and the kids to the creek. Since, apparently, stocked trout sift into the area, the fish might provide an enjoyable fishing experience for kids.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

While I wouldn't oppose the idea I've found that kids only locations I'm aware of in central PA tend to be underutilized. One I passed regularly hardly had any youngsters visiting after the first year. I asked a couple friends who lived nearby and had kids. They told me they had plenty of other streams to visit in the area where dad and sometimes mom could also participate as a family outing.

I think they might work better in higher population areas that have fewer fishing opportunities for kids.
 
salmonoid -

Since I own a section of creek...Yes in fact I do see a lot of bait fisherman and their creels of trout and in some cases more than their daily limits. I can also say for a fact that when the usual holes are fished out they look for areas where there are fish which includes the beloved wild and native trout. Some people just can't help themselves and feel entitled since they pay for a fishing license.

We're not one big happy family as people want to believe. I hear this in the archery hunting side of the house. Its really more about how the particular methodology impacts a particular area from a biological standpoint.

Ron
 
Now it’s about kids and veterans?? Geez what about transgenders??

Spin rods and bait are the crutches of fishing.
 
PALongbow wrote:
salmonoid -

Since I own a section of creek...Yes in fact I do see a lot of bait fisherman and their creels of trout and in some cases more than their daily limits. I can also say for a fact that when the usual holes are fished out they look for areas where there are fish which includes the beloved wild and native trout. Some people just can't help themselves and feel entitled since they pay for a fishing license.
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You should post your section Ron. Thataways you can have the WCO cite them for BOTH trespass and creel violations when you call it in. On the one hand, you're exacerbating the entitlement epidemic amongst bait fishing America by not. Added bonus...Since the PFBC won't stock your section if you post it, you will be creating a "safe haven" for the wild Trout under your watch.
 
As far as the whole fly/spin/bait debate...Here's my take...

Though I don't necessarily always agree with or appreciate his approach, in terms of the actual subject matter...I agree with FTA.

Anyone who takes offense to being called elitist for being an advocate of a strict FFing diet, yet advocates for sections of water to be excluded from other (otherwise legal) methods of fishing needs to take a good hard look in the mirror.

 
I think the window for harvest should be reduced to the period of time in which they stock fish, in addition to barbless hooks and artificial lures for any c&r areas/periods of time. You'd see a lot less trash, which in my experience in talking to land owners whom posted their property, is their primary reason for doing do.

Hell, I think landowners should get a tax break for allowing fisherman to access water via their property. People get taxed for land they "own", why not give them a little incentive to allow those with a fishing license to access a creek via walk-in?
 
SteveG wrote:
I think the window for harvest should be reduced to the period of time in which they stock fish, in addition to barbless hooks and artificial lures for any c&r areas/periods of time. You'd see a lot less trash, which in my experience in talking to land owners whom posted their property, is their primary reason for doing do.

Hell, I think landowners should get a tax break for allowing fisherman to access water via their property. People get taxed for land they "own", why not give them a little incentive to allow those with a fishing license to access a creek via walk-in?
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The government already can't manage what it has/runs let alone one more tax loophole, I'm sure they'd screw it up. And this whole C&R/bait fisherman harvest thing is kind of whack. Think about it, we have better trout fishing and more wild trout now than any other time in our state's history. I would say that 90% of fisherman today release fish. When I've been out on opening days just observing in places that are stocked fisheries even those bait fisherman are mostly releasing their catch. They ate just there for the fun which is why we all fish, at least part of it. I don't think that an unstocked stream will draw as many anglers looking to fill their freezers. How much impact will it really have? There aren't enough WCO to enforce what currently exists and people can easily keep fish from C&R water already......I've seen it done lots of times from the Little J.

With that said my favorite trout steam is stocked, Class A, packed with wild browns, the stockies hold over always unless caught and killed, has open regular statewide regs, and is in terrific shape. How do all of those browns thrive in there without C&R regs? Oh, and one better thing, serious anglers pay it less attention because it still gets stocked..
 
rrt wrote:
Regular posters to this FLY FISHING site: franktroutangler's puerile posts are designed to antagonize fly-fishermen. Otherwise, he would post his comments about Slate Run and Fishermen's Paradise on a non-fly-fishing site, not here. Don't let this non-fly-fisherman get "under your skin."
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Rich, please explain how advocating equal fishing rights for all anglers makes me childish and anti-fly-fishermen. Please use Slate Run/Francis Branch as your example.
 
Wild_Trouter wrote:
As for Frankie, I respect his mind-numbing upstream spinner casting and tedious calculation/year end number of trout caught compilation with statistical analysis, but I can't say much for the person. I don't go on HuntingPA (Frank's breeding ground) and throw shade at his techniques or stories. I'm not sure when/why he developed his perception that all fly-fishermen are elitist snobs, but painting with such a broad brush is severely misguided; couldn't be further from the truth and does nothing to further the agenda of protecting the resource where all hands on deck are needed. My advice to Frankie would be to try and show some respect and he might get some in return.
Click to expand...

Wild Trouter: Pretend that you are an attorney for a minute and prove to me and everyone on this board where I ever said that I believe all (or even most) fly-fishermen are elitist snobs. I guarantee you can't prove this because I've never said it and certainly don't believe it.

 
FrankTroutAngler wrote:
rrt wrote:
Regular posters to this FLY FISHING site: franktroutangler's puerile posts are designed to antagonize fly-fishermen. Otherwise, he would post his comments about Slate Run and Fishermen's Paradise on a non-fly-fishing site, not here. Don't let this non-fly-fisherman get "under your skin."
Click to expand...

Rich, please explain how advocating equal fishing rights for all anglers makes me childish and anti-fly-fishermen. Please use Slate Run/Francis Branch as your example.
Click to expand...

I'm not in favor of special regulations in general, but if they do exist, I'd always vote for C&R All-Tackle. That being said, if I had to pick a hill to die on, getting the few miles of FFO water in PA converted to something else would not be it. Yes, it may not be fair or equal, but it is what it is. You trumpet this grave injustice in the world every time you can and you point out that it was a fly-fisherman who you encountered while you were fishing your stream beat; presumably, they interrupted your fishing, but maybe you interrupted theirs? This may be why folks view you as anti-fly-fishermen.

I'm always grateful for what I do have; not ungrateful for what I don't have.
 
afishinado wrote:
Mwheaps32 wrote:
He's not getting under my skin at all he prefers to spin fish what's the big deal!!
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PA Flyfish is here for those that enjoy fly fishing and wish to post about the sport.

There are plenty of spin fishing and general fishing sites out there to access.

Someone posting on a fly-fishing site about closing fly-fishing areas is really classless and a bit childish.

It shows little respect for the many PAFF members that do an awful lot to help protect and enhance the streams and fish in PA.

I wish Frank would finally grow up to outgrow the "them" or "us" mentality so we can all work together to make PA a better place to fish for all anglers, regardless of the tackle they choose to fish.
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If some fly fishing only projects, such as the 8.7 mile Slate Run/Francis Branch area, were opened to other angling methods could you not still fish there? What exactly would you be losing?
 
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