PETITION for Catch and Release on the TULLY!

I hate to say it but I've worked with PFBC and other government agencies for years - I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather listen to an experienced outdoorsman/woman that spends a great deal of their time in a specific region on a specific waterway.

In addition, a friend and I helped stock the Tully with adult fish on Wednesday. It just never ceases to amaze me at the capable people that show up but do not help.... AND the ones that just gear up and go fishing while we are carrying our 50th bucket of the day..? Don't get me started, and unfortunately this is reality and as long as these types exist (which will be forever and seem to be growing) it will be tougher and tougher to get this kind of "common sense" changes...

Thanks to those that continue to spearhead efforts like this one.
 
TDB,
Thank you for your volunteerism.

Are you certain that the theme in your first paragraph is appropriate in this case?

Speaking of local knowledge, did anyone mention noticing a difference in the stocking that took place from Rebers (steel) bridge downstream to the covered bridge in comparison to the past?
 
Well Mike, what's the story? I wasn't there but will guess it was bows above Rebers and browns below or vice versa .... Unless of course it was strictly cuts and lighting trout from Rebers to covered bridge.

I thought the state also had some strain of bows more tolerant to warmer temps. ?? I don't get to see that's stocked but have seen large bows (almost big spring quality) and some rather large browns in there over the years. I was always under the assumption that those were fish that had carriedover for several years. Some of those were back when fingerlings were the main stockings in the fall. Thoughts?
 
Mike, I changed my photo to that so that people on here might like me more, that hasn't happened!..:) But worth the try.

It seemed like all rainbows above Rebers and Browns below. The numbers were twice as high in the upper reach, which I believe has more "boring" trout habitat.. Total number of fish was impressive. Who knows how many are left since a 2000 cfs dam release came swooping in minutes after stocking was finished..... I love it when we all work together..
 
The stockings are scheduled well in advance and the discharges are weather dependent, so trying to predict when they will occur and adjust the stocking schedule accordingly doesn't work. We have seen in other situations that when there is decent habitat the trout don't get washed downstream to the extent that one might think. On the other hand, when the stream has few obstructions and other current breaking structure, trout are more likely to move, especially brooks, but Browns to a larger extent than rainbows as well.

My primary concern with Tully flows after the preseason stocking is the low flow period in early April when the lake is being filled 5 ft to recreational pool level and natural inflow to the lake is avg or low. That creates an artificial low flow or drought - like event in the DH area at times, exposing large numbers of recently stocked fish to easy predation by avian predators, primarily g b herons. I have considered permanently adjusting the preseason stocking date to occur after that predictable period, but need to weigh that against lost recreational opportunities in the creek for a few weeks. On the other hand, if at this time of the year flows are generally too high to fish anyway, except when filling the lake, then perhaps holding off on the stocking would be beneficial. One benefit would be that there would be more trout to catch longer into the spring when a later preseason stocking occurred.

I should add that through electrofishing, we have documented that sudden lower flows in the Tully DH area cause substantial trout movement. I suspect that low flow in general probably does the same thing.
 
OR stock them earlier in February to add a winter opportunity and give them time to acclimate before the higher spring flows?? And the sooner they get outta the hatchery, the more $ the PFBC would save!

I understand the situation on March 11. No worries, it is what it is. I know the lake had large amounts of in-flow, however, the lake level wasn't that high - they could have relaxed for a day or two or stepped up the flows more reasonably IMO
 
I'll add another interesting note - one of the TCO shop guys was there with his driftboat to float stock - not necessary for a few reasons.
#1 they were blowing out the flow 5 minutes after the truck left.
#2 the section they floated (Dam to Rebers) has terrible habitat IMO making float stocking somewhat useless

Ah, that's enough.. Just thought it was funny. I can't imagine they would have went through the trouble of launching a boat, etc if they knew 2000 cfs was coming minutes after they went through that effort...

Good PR I suppose, though I doubt the jackwagons that were there with rod in hand fishing out of the bucket are frequenting their establishment anyway...
 
No reason to to call them out TDB that person was there trying to help. TCO does alot for the Tully so I don't get why you would post something like that, and there is Trout habitat through there. Multiple times ive fished that area in the summer for carp and seen a good amount of trout. Granted its not ideal but they can survive but it doesn't help when i'm there in July fishing for carp and Ive see a plenty of trouts fishers fishing a caddis hatch lol.
 
Cody. Sorry you took it that way. I guess my wording came across wrong. I appreciate what the floaters were trying to accomplish.
 
Mike wrote:
The stockings are scheduled well in advance and the discharges are weather dependent, so trying to predict when they will occur and adjust the stocking schedule accordingly doesn't work. We have seen in other situations that when there is decent habitat the trout don't get washed downstream to the extent that one might think. On the other hand, when the stream has few obstructions and other current breaking structure, trout are more likely to move, especially brooks, but Browns to a larger extent than rainbows as well.

My primary concern with Tully flows after the preseason stocking is the low flow period in early April when the lake is being filled 5 ft to recreational pool level and natural inflow to the lake is avg or low. That creates an artificial low flow or drought - like event in the DH area at times, exposing large numbers of recently stocked fish to easy predation by avian predators, primarily g b herons. I have considered permanently adjusting the preseason stocking date to occur after that predictable period, but need to weigh that against lost recreational opportunities in the creek for a few weeks. On the other hand, if at this time of the year flows are generally too high to fish anyway, except when filling the lake, then perhaps holding off on the stocking would be beneficial. One benefit would be that there would be more trout to catch longer into the spring when a later preseason stocking occurred.

I should add that through electrofishing, we have documented that sudden lower flows in the Tully DH area cause substantial trout movement. I suspect that low flow in general probably does the same thing.
Click to expand...

Mike,

We all appreciate your comments and info you provide here; with that being said, the above will not fly with most of us.

Given the proposal to open up DHALO sections to harvest and bait fishing on Memorial Day weekend, stocking later, when the normal Tully flows are restored in mid April (I checked the average flows on the USGS site) would take most of the “delay” out of delayed harvest..

This season, if the first stocking occurred the third week of April when the flows are restored; on May 23rd the stream would be open to harvest and bait fishing under the new proposal…that’s four weeks after stocking...just when the hatches and better fishing begins!

This makes no sense at all and really takes away recreational opportunities for all of us on here that love to fish.

I am opposed to the early harvest and opening to bait fishing proposal. I have signed the petition posted on the first page of this thread http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/catch-release-on-the-tulpehocken-creek, have sent in my comment to the PFBC on their site http://fishandboat.com/regcomments/index.htm?title_number=263dhalo and have written my State Representative.
 
Afish:

Thanks for looking up the flow history and determining that flow is typically not fully restored until mid-April. I had not gotten that far along..to have checked the data; therefore, you saved me some time. Clearly, that thought of mine, which I would have investigated just as you have already, would have been workable. Additionally, in presenting this for comment, I was not taking the present proposal for a change to the regs into account as I "don't count my trout before they are hatched." I don't even think much about such proposals until the Commission acts and only got more involved with dicussions this time because of the response from Tully enthusiasts.
 
TDB wrote:
It just never ceases to amaze me at the capable people that show up but do not help.... AND the ones that just gear up and go fishing while we are carrying our 50th bucket of the day..?
Click to expand...

i would have asked them to help, and if they didn't i'd ask why.

i'd also point out that catching fish minutes after they've been stocked is not really fishing.

:-?
 
Mike wrote:
Afish:

Thanks for looking up the flow history and determining that flow is typically not fully restored until mid-April. I had not gotten that far along..to have checked the data; therefore, you saved me some time. Clearly, that thought of mine, which I would have investigated just as you have already, would have been workable. Additionally, in presenting this for comment, I was not taking the present proposal for a change to the regs into account as I "don't count my trout before they are hatched." I don't even think much about such proposals until the Commission acts and only got more involved with dicussions this time because of the response from Tully enthusiasts.
Click to expand...

Mike,

No problem, and again no disrespect intended. In fact, I even realize that you have a personal opinion about whatever is proposed, but as a professional, you do not express that opinion either for or against.

Anyway, if the regs do not change, perhaps your idea of a later stocking, or even a split stocking will fly, and do something to enhance and extend the fishing on the Tully.
 
Afish: Correcting my error from above, I have inserted the word "not."

Clearly, that thought of mine, which I would have investigated just as you have already, would NOT have been workable.

Yes, Afish, I frequently "take one for the team."
 
TBD,
So you're saying running a driftboat down there on opening day WOULD NOT be a good idea? Now I've got to change my plans.
 
Kray. I'm not saying that!..:). I'm all for OPEN boating. Floating Elk Creek for steel in October. Tully during a caddis hatch. It's all good. Haha.
 
Signed

Maybe they can get the strain of bows from the east branch
 
Yes, we are planning to use. "warm water" rainbow developed by Case-Western and used for the past 20 years successfully on the Yough in Maryland. They have a 5-8 degree greater tolerance of warm water.
 
Dan, I am wondering what the reference study is for the high thermal tolerance differences that are being reported here. Where are those numbers coming from?
 
Mike wrote:
Dan, I am wondering what the reference study is for the high thermal tolerance differences that are being reported here. Where are those numbers coming from?
Click to expand...

Hey Mike,


Found some info on the Case Western strain of rainbow trout. Here is one paragraph:

“One strain of trout is currently registered with the National Fish Strain Registry as warm strain of rainbow trout (Kincaid et al. 2002). The Case Western strain was accidentally developed as a by-product of ecological experiments in ponds. When some of the trout survived warm summer pond temperatures they were retained and registered as brood stock. Anecdotal information from growers and Maryland DNR biologists suggests the Case Western strain indeed performs better (survives and returns to creel) than other strains of rainbow trout. However, this has not been rigorously evaluated…”

Here is the entire study:

Link to source: http://aquaculture.davis.wvu.edu/r/download/82651

Interesting stuff. I looks like our friends at Harmon’s in West Virginia were mentioned in the study.

More info:

“The Case Western strain is registered as a warm-tolerant strain with the National Fish Strain Registry, and it did achieve a significantly higher CTM (31.29°C) than the Kamloops (31.14°C) but not the Wytheville (31.20°C) strain. Such small differences are likely not biologically significant. While the CTM of the Case Western strain was higher than that of the Kamloops, the Case Western strain consistently performed poorer than the other strains in feeding and growth experiments at 20°C and 22°C. Our results add to the growing body of literature suggesting that differences in thermal performance do exist between strains of trout. While there is debate about whether these differences are due to evolutionary adaptation to local environmental conditions or phenotypic plasticity, the differences being found in thermal performance of trout suggests future research aimed at improving thermal performance via thermal testing and selective breeding may yield stock with improved tolerance and growth at warmer temperatures….”

Link to source: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00028487.2014.945662#.VQ6qHPzF_To


 
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