PETITION for Catch and Release on the TULLY!

[lestrout]

Despite a little confusion on my part about the finer and divergent points in this thread, I went ahead and joined in signing the petition. Somehow the path led through signing through Facebook, which I went along with.

 

[afishinado]

lestrout wrote:
Despite a little confusion on my part about the finer and divergent points in this thread, I went ahead and joined in signing the petition. Somehow the path led through signing through Facebook, which I went along with.

Hey Les,

I'm not sure if you signed. I believe Your name should come up with comment if you sign the petition here!...I'm famous!! Also the count should increase by 1 if you're in.

 

[geebee]

FWIW C&R and a closed season around thermal refuges have produced wild spawning bows in the Housatonic :

http://www.epa.gov/housatonic/publiceventsandmeetings/20150128/570554.pdf

the program has now spread to the Shetucket and Naugatuck rivers.

 

[troutbert]

How warm does the Tully get in the summer?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I've watched the USGS gauges and the TCO Outfitters website throughout the last several summers, and if memory serves correctly, it pushed close to 80 at times. 78 for sure.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

PS-this is just below Blue Marsh.

 

[Mike]

Per Sasquatch's PS, this is not a minor observation. The gauge is only a measured one-fifth of the way down the roughly 3.5 mi DH Area and there are plenty of solar radiation, wide shallow stretches, and pools that follow.

As I believe you know via your question, Troutbert, fish do not respond to thermal averages; they respond to thermal maxima and minima. They also respond to what are, in effect, degree days or other time-based thermal units. Warm temperature caused mortality can be chronic or acute, and the chronic occurs at temps that are frequently viewed as being sub-lethal by laymen.

And when fish are in thermally stressful conditions, or in thermal refugia, they are more vulnerable to predation, such as by great blue herons, which are effective predators in daylight and at night.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I wish I could get hard numbers. From what I can tell the USGS only gives temp averages up to 2003 in their history.

One thing that we've discussed on here is how short the cold water reserves in Blue Marsh are. The lake is getting shallower and shallower, from what I understand.

All this to say, I'm not convinced that C&R regs will help this stream at all if other steps aren't taken. Putting the C&R in place now seems, to me, as it you're putting the cart before the horse. You're not dealing with the fact that the cold water reserves run out in early July, people are pulling fish out of the cold water refuges all summer long, etc.

I mean no offense, but pushing a C&R reg on this stream, TO ME, seems more based upon a general anti-harvesting mindset than it does anything else. I say this as a man who has not harvested a trout in over a decade.

 

[troutbert]

The catch-and-release area on Penns Creek gets to 80F very commonly. There are probably few summers when it does not exceed 80F.

I took a temperature of 86F there during a drought.

 

[RCFetter]

Fishidiot wrote:

Agree with Afishinado - this is encouraging.

I signed it.

 

[dshaffer]

To All,

When it does get warm in the middle end of the summer, there are refugia for the trout as Mike suggested. During a drought not only do tail water suffer, but most other trout streams as well. Nature happens!

The water level in Blue Marsh lake is controlled bu both the Army Corp and the Del. River Basin Auth. The winter pool is kept at 285 feet above sea level and the summer pool is kept at 290 feet above sea level. There is a lot more to it, but those are the levels.

To my knowledge there are no regulations available to close the Tully from July to October. I would suggest that folks that want to fish the Tully during those months target the famous Tulpehocken Salmon (carp). They are a blast on a 5wt fly rod. OR go to the Schuylkill and fish small mouth bass. Regardless, it is up to all fishermen who know better to hep educate those souls that do target the trout when they are under stress.

As I have said it needs to be tried. Let your vote be heard and fill out the petition. It only takes a minute.

The link to the petition is on PAGE 1.

 

[TYoung]

The catch-and-release area on Penns Creek gets to 80F very commonly. There are probably few summers when it does not exceed 80F.

I took a temperature of 86F there during a drought.

Penns Creek has a lot more thermal refuges than The Tully. There are many spring seeps that create small areas where fish can stack up and avoid the hot water.

 

[afishinado]

Just FYI:

Tully TU, the TCO fly shop along with hundreds of Tully anglers pony up their own money to purchase fingerling rainbows and go out and stock them in the fall. Instead of put and take with the DH, why not give C&R a chance to see what happens with these fish?

Also, there is a proposal in works by the PFBC for moving up the harvest date in the DH areas to late May and allowing bait fishing during the harvest period.

Blue Marsh runs out of cool water in late July or August. I check out the temps from the gauge just below the dam every summer. Some years it ranges from 70*F and as high as 76*F. It cools a little at Cacoosing (a trib) but temps often remain close to 70* or above for a month or longer in late summer.

The fingerlings stocked are rainbows with clipped fins and are raised to be higher temperature tolerant according to Mr. Shaffer. I think if anglers use good judgement and don't fish it during the high temps, the fish may make it through...but you really don't know until you try.

 

[dc410]

I feel that the majority of the pressure on the Tully in the mid to late part of summer is from flyfishermen targeting the Trico spinnerfalls which obviously vary in intensity from year to year and are somewhat sporadic and spread out over the entire regulated section. Over the past three seasons by the middle of July I have quit fishing the Trico hatches because the temperatures are getting very close to 70 degrees if they haven't already surpassed it. Previous to that I could remember catching trout on the Tully at or above 70 degrees and spending more time trying to revive fish than actually fishing. Sad to say that most of those fish probably did not survive the stress that I put them under (and I never was a 7X guy).Looking back I feel that I should have harvested those fish and could have legally done that but I wasn't prepared with the proper equipment to harvest and care for them properly so I attempted to revive them. That is the sole reason that I don't put myself in that situation anymore.

 

[geebee]

Mike wrote:

And when fish are in thermally stressful conditions, or in thermal refugia, they are more vulnerable to predation, such as by great blue herons, which are effective predators in daylight and at night.

thats why they load up parts of the refuges with wooden logs n debris - to provide shade and cover from herons, raptors etc.

the alternative is to close fishing within 100 yards of tribs as many rivers do.

cheers

Mark

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I think tully TU should seriously look into doing such a cold water refuge project that is in post #20. Expanding these areas and including habitat would be worth while, regulation changes or not.

Good luck like I said. Your AFM has expressed absolutely 0 desire repeatedly to expanding C&R in the state no matter what angler desire wishes. Even more so on this particular watershed has the AMF not been shy about masking his own distaste for the notion on C&R.
This is not an uphill battle. It's an uphill battle with a rope attached to an AFM and a "majority" voice roped to him.

 

[geebee]

read the report linked in post #23 - pics on pages 12-13 show hundreds of stocked trout successfully holding over under and around the wood debris.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

There are more than two cold water refuges on this regulated portion of the creek.
Does it make sense to allow bait fishing when the trout are stacked up in these areas? Depends on your agenda I guess.
I like catching those nice big holdovers into winter and the next spring but that's just me.
If you ask me the fish and the creek deserve better than delayed harvest and certainly better than bait and the problems that come with it.

 

[Mike]

I suggested something similar regarding improvement of the lone larger (but still relatively small from a suitable habitat standpoint) refuge's impact about 4 months ago to TU through TCO's Tony Gehman following a Tully TU Meeting that we both attended. I believe he relayed the info to TU. This was not something that I had ever read about or seen prior to that time; it just seemed logical to maximize the impact of that refuge by pushing the cold water farther out into the channel rather than have it hug the shallows.

One other very small refuge existed in Plum Ck, which used to hold about 15-30 trout. In more recent times I have been told Plum is problematic and not very good for cold water. When I have inquired, no angler has ever been able to point out a third refuge to me.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

I believe there are at least three.