PETITION for Catch and Release on the TULLY!

Mike,

A really do not want to get into a tit for tat, but in the "proposal" we absolutely took to heart your suggestion you made to Tony. That is one of the three primary points we make in the proposal that the Tully Chapter is willing to explore. In fact I talked to Karl Lutz about coming down this spring and we even have fill set aside at no charge except to haul it.

We do listen and take to heart your suggestions. We disagree about C&R, but that does not mean we do not listen.
 
Afish,
In your first paragraph (# 33)', you already have the opportunity to see what happens to your fall stocked fingerlings under C&R regs until the following June 15. Since the vast majority of the fingerling mortality typically occurred during the first winter, you should be seeing the quality, as measured by abundance, of the fishery being provided by the fingerlings under C&R regs by the spring. Those fingerlings should be 8.5-10 inches long by mid-April and 10- 11.5 inches by Memorial Day.

Dan, that's not tit for tat; that is a reasonable and quick response to a topic of interest to others and to me. It also brings me up to date as to where things stand with that proposal, because at this point i did not know of any movement on the idea.
Thanks

 
To All,

Below is a redacted section of the new strategic plan from PAFB Commission. It seems like the Tully and the work we propose fit the bill:

Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission
Strategic Plan July 2014 – June 2017

Conservation

Goal 2: Protect, conserve, and enhance aquatic resources and habitats.

A. By January 2015 complete a revision to the Strategic Plan for Management of Trout Fisheries in Pennsylvania to include the following:

1.Through June 2017, continue efforts to improve Pennsylvania’s tail water trout fisheries.

And, by the by, the first section of the strategic plan talks about funding. Well we are willing to and have put up private money toward the project and are committed to continue to do the same. In an era where money is tight and you have a willing donor..........

 
Mike wrote:

t just seemed logical to maximize the impact of that refuge by pushing the cold water farther out into the channel rather than have it hug the shore.
Click to expand...

i think thats probably more logical if fishing is allowed around the trib, but where fishing is restricted and/or you wish to create cover in shallow water you are better in extending the cold water down the shore rather than out.

the HFFA should be the folks that the TU & PFBC should talk to - it was a private initiative originally in CT which with state aid is now expanding to the shetucket and naugatuck - which both have small runs of atlantic salmon too.

the HFFA does all the annual maintenance to the Refuges each June, not the state btw.

 
I think this would be a great idea for many larger waters in PA.
Pine Creek below galeton would benefit greatly from this
 
looking through the original docs, the efforts were supported by the TU Council of CT.

i would suggest in all cases, use a contact at your local TU to contact the TU Council of PA (if there is one) and have them discuss it with the CT TU Council.

who knows ? - if there is sufficient interest perhaps TU could adopt it as a National project and secure national funding.

I looked up what CT did to change their regs :

Thermal Refuges

These are seasonal no-fishing zones created to protect thermally stressed trout seeking cool water refuge at tributaries to major rivers (Housatonic, Naugatuck, Shetucket). To better reflect cool water flow patterns, the reference point will be changed from the outlet of the tributary to a point or points as posted by DEEP. Additionally, a thermal refuge is created along the Salmon River (East Haddam) within Sunrise Resort State Park. The closure period for all thermal refuges will be extended, ending on September 15 (instead of August 30).
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very simple. and its five rivers now from four, in just six years,
 
Geebee,

Just FYI, Pa has more members of TU than any other state. There is a PATU website. You might want to Google it and submit your suggestion. They are locAted in Bellefonte. We are always looking for good folks that care.
 
geebee wrote:
i would have no problem with a closed season.
as the tully does not have floods, you could also create thermal sanctuaries - like the Housatonic in CT.

IMGP04453.jpg

they roll rocks to create a 'run' below a cool trib, then fill it with wood.
the river is year round C&R except in the thermal refuges which are closed june 15 to August 31.
inone summer survey, they counted 500 trout in ONE refuge.
Click to expand...

This is intriguing - not sure if it's the solution to the situation on the Tully, but it's a concept that would likely have a good bit of success on many PA waters. Thanks for the info Geebee!
 
We can all agree that the Tully tailwater summer water temperatures are marginal. They also vary from year to year depending on conditions just like other trout stream. I have fished the DHALO section of the Tully before the construction of Blue Marsh Dam, the introduction of trout, and the DHALO regulations. In the 35 years since the introduction of trout I have never seen a thermal fish kill on the Tully and nobody has ever reported one to my knowledge. And more importantly when you fish in September the trout are still there and in good numbers. The numerous fish commission electrofishing studies consistently found trout from multiple year classes. I always thought that these holdovers were an asset and the commission would be pleased. It should also be noted that this fishery existed as a fingerling–based trout fishery for 25 years.
 
Great conversation all posts above. Both informative and interesting.

Mike wrote:
Afish,
In your first paragraph (# 33)', you already have the opportunity to see what happens to your fall stocked fingerlings under C&R regs until the following June 15. Since the vast majority of the fingerling mortality typically occurred during the first winter, you should be seeing the quality, as measured by abundance, of the fishery being provided by the fingerlings under C&R regs by the spring. Those fingerlings should be 8.5-10 inches long by mid-April and 10- 11.5 inches by Memorial Day.

Dan, that's not tit for tat; that is a reasonable and quick response to a topic of interest to others and to me. It also brings me up to date as to where things stand with that proposal, because at this point i did not know of any movement on the idea.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware the winter is when the mortality of the newly stocked fingerlings was greatest. I suppose we can assess the (remaining) population of the smaller clipped rainbows this spring. Thank you for the info.
 
It's always interesting for me to read posts here...although, it is almost always the same people. That's okay though, as long as others are reading this and gaining insight, then this form of media has done its job.

I have said this before... and will say again, I think we are drawing lines in the sand here where they don't need to be! Aren't we ALL on the same side? Aren't we ALL just trying to do what's best for the trout and for the resource?

If so, then it would be very hard to argue that the Tully is just a "marginal" stream! I have been a part of this stream since 1985... and have watch it grow and flourish through projects and protection.

All we are asking for here is to take this to the next level! Help us make this stream live up to its potential by allowing for the survival and of an “almost” wild trout. We (TU and TCO) are also planning on doing extensive work for an indefinite period of time to create buffers, nursery areas and stream bank stabilization to name a few. All these projects, coupled with a new strain of rainbows introduced that will thrive in warmer temps and the addition of C&R would be an amazing change in the resource… I can almost guarantee its success!

If for some strange reason it doesn't work... what have we lost?? WE (TCO & TU) are paying for the fish, WE are putting in the time and money to rehab the stream.. and WE are float stocking the PAFBC fish that are allocated each year too.
I guess my real point is.... what have we got to lose?????
 
TCOtony wrote: We (TU and TCO) are also planning on doing extensive work for an indefinite period of time to create buffers, nursery areas and stream bank stabilization to name a few.
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i don't think anyone's disagreeing with that - i signed, so have many others.

its just that a few of us are saying that those trout that school up below or around cooler tribs should be protected by a) some thermal refuge rules like in CT (effectively closing the fishery in those areas) b) and structure to provide cover - either log n brush like the Housatonic, or like in some places the smaller 'table' style structures that trout can sit underneath.

i don't think anyone's taking issue with TU, only that we are suggesting some improvements to the plan.

I think all of us appreciate the work that TCO does locally FWIW.

cheers


Mark.
 
Often overlooked when it comes to water temperature is the fact that flowing warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen than flowing colder water. Yet a cold seep, while providing cold water, introduces very little dissolved oxygen into the water by itself. You need a way to protect the cold water refuges, yet get that cold water mixed with what is presumably warmer but more oxygenated water somehow.
 
I dunno that you would have to do that Kevin. The cold water refuges I know of on the tully are free flowing streams themselves, not really spring seeps. Yet, I would be willing to bet that a few large plunge pools before of the newly formed refuge areas would be a good idea.
 
TCOtony wrote:
It's always interesting for me to read posts here...although, it is almost always the same people. That's okay though, as long as others are reading this and gaining insight, then this form of media has done its job.

I have said this before... and will say again, I think we are drawing lines in the sand here where they don't need to be! Aren't we ALL on the same side? Aren't we ALL just trying to do what's best for the trout and for the resource?

If so, then it would be very hard to argue that the Tully is just a "marginal" stream! I have been a part of this stream since 1985... and have watch it grow and flourish through projects and protection.

All we are asking for here is to take this to the next level! Help us make this stream live up to its potential by allowing for the survival and of an “almost” wild trout. We (TU and TCO) are also planning on doing extensive work for an indefinite period of time to create buffers, nursery areas and stream bank stabilization to name a few. All these projects, coupled with a new strain of rainbows introduced that will thrive in warmer temps and the addition of C&R would be an amazing change in the resource… I can almost guarantee its success!

If for some strange reason it doesn't work... what have we lost?? WE (TCO & TU) are paying for the fish, WE are putting in the time and money to rehab the stream.. and WE are float stocking the PAFBC fish that are allocated each year too.
I guess my real point is.... what have we got to lose?????
Click to expand...

You have to understand, any reservations I have in changes to the regulations have to do with whether or not they would be effective. As the stream stands RIGHT NOW, I'm not sure it would be. But the petition doesn't mention everything that you just said, all the other efforts that will be done to go along side the change in regs (I also think GeeBee's info is REALLY good and should be considered!).

Ultimately though, what really pisses me off is not what you guys are trying to do here. I get hot under the collar, really, at the people who work against the fish and the stream. I KNOW some of those people are members of this site. All we have to do is read the stream reports on the Tully in the middle of July to see it. When I drive past PMR and see the same guy fishing on 100 degree days consistently, it just pisses me off to no end.

So my pushing back is out of frustration. Kind of like, "What's the point if anglers are going to work against your efforts?"

I realize I may be overestimating the damage some of these guys can do to the fish's chances of holding over, but again, it just really grinds my gears.
 
good points Squatch.

Perhaps TU could put a polite sign up - "Warning - Excessive Water Temperatures. Please do not stress the fish by fishing for them at this time "

Its not like folks don't know - go to TCO or Blue Sky's river report pages in July and August and they say the same thing - DON"T FISH TODAY.

sheet, when its 100F out i want to be in the water not on it - unless i have a cold brewski in one hand....
 
We thank everyone who voted for C&R on the Tully. We are now requesting folks to sign a PETITION for C&R ALO as per our request to the PAFBC on Jan 21 and as amended on February 3.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ca ... -on-the-tulpehocken-creek
 
Sorry, the above post does not connect to the petition. Here we go!

TULLY CATCH AND RELEASE PETITION

As you may or may not be aware, a proposal has been submitted to the PA Fish and Boat Commission to change the Special Regulations Section of the Tulpehocken (Tully) Creek from Delayed Harvest to Catch and Release Artificial Lures Only. PLEASE sign our petition to show your support of this change!

Our objective is to create a high quality put-and-grow tail water fishery at very limited cost to the state for trout that look, fight and act like wild trout, with the possibility of creating or enhancing a wild trout population.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/catch-release-on-the-tulpehocken-creek
 
I just signed and keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Fishidiot wrote:
I'll take a study or survey done by the PFBC over individual angler anecdotes almost every time.
Click to expand...

What about when the PFBC makes up it's own anecdotes on opening day?

Those are my favourites.

 
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