Off on a tangent.....

[Nymph-wristed]

And I figure if the brook trout truthers and troublemakers keep making noise, I’ll start spot burning all their blue lines 😂.

Now that is funny.

As a white guy of European ancestry, am I an invasive species in PA? I guess Fish Sticks, et al are of Susquehannock stock?

I think the conversation has it place, but when a new member asks about fishing during the fall, as happend this week, and is encouraged to kill wild brown trout, it does feel a little like you are just trying to stir the pot above all else.

That is not winning any fans to the cause, and that does not seem like the point anymore.

 

[jifigz]

Now that is funny.

As a white guy of European ancestry, am I an invasive species in PA? I guess Fish Sticks, et al are of Susquehannock stock?

I think the conversation has it place, but when a new member asks about fishing during the fall, as happend this week, and is encouraged to kill wild brown trout, it does feel a little like you are just trying to stir the pot above all else.

That is not winning any fans to the cause, and that does not seem like the point anymore.

IF you had been reading posts for months then you would know that we Europeans are not invasive but rather migrated here of our own accord. Well, not of your own accord but that of your ancestors. If a species migrates on their own then they are not an invasive, regardless of the damages they incur to their new surroundings. Even though you somehow missed that point over the last several months, I suppose I will invite you back to catch smallmouths next summer......maybe......

I don't think this lessens our impacts and nature and ecosystems and makes them more forgivable, but it sure can be argued semantically for eternity, it would appear.

 

[falcon]

#6 Snakeheads suck

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Well, not of your own accord but that of your ancestors. If a species migrates on their own then they are not an invasive, regardless of the damages they incur to their new surroundings

Man, I did miss a lot!

I didn't know the brookie hijackings had solved the immigration debate too. If my people CHOSE to brave barbed wire buoys on the Rio Grande, they are cool then?

Sorry, now I am trolling. Just ignore me, right?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

#4 - fishing during the spawn or near redds 😁😂

It's what all the trout pros do, dude.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

You are correct. We see this everytime someone takes the time to post "invasive, non-native brown trout" instead of just "brown trout."

There is no reason to be so verbose other than to be abbrasive. We knew browns are both invasive and non native long ago. Repeating it over and over, as has been the case recently, is not a way to educate, but rather agitate.

Attempts to trigger a response don't have to be blatant or obvious.

Well said. Very well said.

 

[bdhoover77]

Seems like Sticks got the message, one more to go!

Perhaps you (and a few others) should look in a mirror and consider you are far from an innocent bystander in most of the threads that get derailed. Just sayin’…

 

[tomgamber]

I think this has been handled. I also think this would be much better served to be handled around a camp fire at the next Jam, since the main accused picked the time when when basically all the mods were at the Jam 2 years ago to entrench themselves into this forum. Coincidence? Jams are fun and we always talk about stuff with more candor and even more levity and leave the place not necessarily solving world peace but knowing each other better and at least adding context to to normally innocuous text. Carry on.

 

[Prospector]

I’ve been on this site for about 10 yrs. I’ve been fly fishing for about 49 years. The PAFF forums have really been impactful to me and have motivated me to try new things and fish in more areas of our great state. I love the information exchange between members.

I agree that the last year or so has been a challenge with the bickering in the threads. Even though I don’t enter the fray, the agendas that some folks bring have rendered many threads unreadable. I hope we can find our way back to a positive experience for everyone.

This site has really broadened my horizons and although I’ve only met a handful of members in person I have found the forum to be very beneficial. I’m grateful that Dave built this forum and continues to manage and moderate.

 

[jifigz]

I think this has been handled.

It has, you're right, so we should all move on and put it behind us for good and look towards a brighter future of PAFF that lies ahead.

 

[caddisflyer]

I am a lover not a fighter but wanted to throw this out there anyway.
I liked hunting wild pheasants as a boy. They were wild not stocked. I wonder what ecological damage they did as they lived in the heavily cultivated areas around here? They sure were a lot of fun.
Some of the best threads here evolved and went "off topic". With my ADD addled brain I just go for the ride.

 

[joebamboo]

Perhaps you (and a few others) should look in a mirror and consider you are far from an innocent bystander in most of the threads that get derailed. Just sayin’…

I like looking into the mirror because I get better looking every day!!!!!!

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I’ve been a member since 2011 or 2012 or so. In that time there’s been two more “major” issues I’ve seen the forum have to deal with. The rest have just been isolated to an individual poster or thread, and were relatively transient in nature. Normal online forum type stuff. The two broader issues were/are:

1. Spot Burning. I think that was handled pretty well. You had the same group of folks waiting with pitchforks any time someone (usually a relatively new, excited FFer) mentioned a stream name. One small suburban Philadelphia limestone influenced wild Brown Trout stream, in particular. It got to the point where it seemed like guys were just waiting for someone to post a stream name so they could tee them up. It wasn’t fun, and led to a lot of new FFers being turned off. The tone was set (and enforced) by the moderators, and the issue quickly resolved itself. If you choose to post a stream name, that’s ok. If you choose not to post a stream name, that’s ok. In neither scenario should you be chastised for it.

2. The scenario we are faced with now. I think overall, the board reaction has been more negative this time. Though that may just be through the lens of passing time also. I don’t know. The answer this time is easy. Talk about native vs. invasive management in threads allocated for its discussion, and BOTH sides respect that. If you don’t want to read or talk about that subject, just don’t click on those threads and definitely don’t go looking for trouble in them. If you do want to talk about those topics, just don’t do it in the thread where everyone is happily talking about the Spring hatches on Penns, or whatever. And outside of the conservation/management based threads, lose the inflammatory “invasive” rhetoric every time Brown Trout are mentioned. (I know it’s factual, and not intended to be inflammatory, but right or wrong, it is perceived that way and serves as the spark for the fire. That’s obvious at this point.) There’s too much of a knowledge base on this forum (on both sides of the native/invasive debate) to be losing posters over not respecting one another’s opinions and differences.

Edit: 3. Politics in the OT forum. I forgot about that. But not gonna talk about it, haha. Place is definitely better without it.

I do remember a few times the mob (of which I am a proud member) really got riled up. There was some heated moments over a certain steelhead dude-which DID produce some utterly hilarious MS Paint images. There were a few others in similar vein. What I always appreciated about this forum is (and I don't know if the mods necessarily appreciate it!), the members are fairly protective of the general mood and overall tone. There's always a bit of underlining snark, but overall charity and a willingness to share, help, etc. especially for new guys....

AND ZERO tolerance for trolls and/or anyone who comes on here for the sole purpose of pushing an agenda or promoting themselves (this is the kind of stuff that usually rallies the mob-thus frustrating the MODS-not just at the troll, but also at the gang who can't help but troll the troll!) And to the mods, I do have to apologize at times, and yet-know, we troll the trolls because we genuinely DO love the forum and community that has been built up here. Our hearts are "in the right place", you might say.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

I did mention in comment #4 that I wasn't going to comment any further but as seeing as I broke that commitment in #9 I will add more.

Overall, I have had a good experience on here. There have been some rough patches. Being an antagonistic person at heart it's hard to avoid the really heated threads and to avoid added gas to the fire. I have had some instances of passive aggressive behavior towards me by a very select few that I found strange. One member quoted me on something and I couldn't even find where I said what was in the post. I don't mind. I still think a psychology study on this forum would yield some interesting results.

I am grateful for the few people that put up with me and fished with me, so if anything I have met some friends that I wouldn't have otherwise gotten to meet if the forum didn't exist. I also got to purchase gear off of here that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to find.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

I also think the mods have done a great job and I realize that they also have other life matters to attend to. I think their judgment is sound and just. If I was a mod I'd probably be ripping my hair out trying tend to the forum and using a ban hammer quite liberally. I am grateful for the forum that Dave has set up for us to use free of charge. Thank you @DaveKile.

I think from a technical standpoint if we let the poster who creates the thread have some administrative keys that could be beneficial. They could then moderate their own thread and make adjustments as they deem necessary. This would take some work off of the shoulders of the mods. I also understand that people have different palates and that some (myself included) may find some of the more obnoxious threads entertaining (some even just read the more heated debates for entertainment value, without offering a single comment). I think if we incorporated a color code system with calmer colors for more casual and cordial debates to more aggressive colors for the threads that spiral out of control. That way the user knows beforehand on what they are getting into. I have no idea actually how to rate these threads though and what type of thread will determine what color. I think of it like the Halo loadout menu with different modes to play. Some people want Tai Chi some want no rules bare knuckle boxing.

For the more extreme threads a window with a warning would pop up. This window would let the reader know what they are about to engage in and that their actions could result in a number of things to include: doxing, verbal/physical altercations, threats of violence towards local hatcheries by eco-terrorists, threats to the livelihood of certain fish species, and the greatest threat of all, spot burning on a massive scale. This thread would not be moderated and the moderators would absolve themselves of all responsibilities . Tread carefully...

 

[mt_flyfisher]

I also think the mods have done a great job and I realize that they also have other life matters to attend to. I think their judgment is sound and just. If I was a mod I'd probably be ripping my hair out trying tend to the forum and using a ban hammer quite liberally. I am grateful for the forum that Dave has set up for us to use free of charge. Thank you @DaveKile.

I think from a technical standpoint if we let the poster who creates the thread have some administrative keys that could be beneficial. They could then moderate their own thread and make adjustments as they deem necessary. This would take some work off of the shoulders of the mods. I also understand that people have different palates and that some (myself included) may find some of the more obnoxious threads entertaining (some even just read the more heated debates for entertainment value, without offering a single comment). I think if we incorporated a color code system with calmer colors for more casual and cordial debates to more aggressive colors for the threads that spiral out of control. That way the user knows beforehand on what they are getting into. I have no idea actually how to rate these threads though and what type of thread will determine what color. I think of it like the Halo loadout menu with different modes to play. Some people want Tai Chi some want no rules bare knuckle boxing.

For the more extreme threads a window with a warning would pop up. This window would let the reader know what they are about to engage in and that their actions could result in a number of things to include: doxing, verbal/physical altercations, threats of violence towards local hatcheries by eco-terrorists, threats to the livelihood of certain fish species, and the greatest threat of all, spot burning on a massive scale. This thread would not be moderated and the moderators would absolve themselves of all responsibilities . Tread carefully...

There may be another solution. Here is an AI generated response:

Once upon a time, the admins at paflyfish.com were a team of dedicated fly fishing enthusiasts who spent their days moderating the site's forums and providing helpful information to the community. However, as time went on, the admins began to feel overwhelmed by the constant influx of questions and comments from users. They started to wish for a way to automate some of their tasks, so they could focus on more interesting and rewarding work. One day, they came across a new Al-powered chatbot that promised to take on many of the routine tasks of moderation and customer support. Intrigued, the admins decided to give it a try. They carefully trained the chatbot on all of their most frequently asked questions and provided it with detailed instructions on how to handle
common issues. At first, the transition to using a chat Al was a little bumpy. The admins had to spend
some time fine-tuning the chatbot's responses and adjusting to a new way of working.
But as the weeks went by, they started to see the benefits of having a virtual assistant. The chatbot was able to handle a large volume of inquiries and requests, freeing up the admins to focus on more complex and challenging tasks. The community members were also pleased with the change. They appreciated the quick and helpful responses they received from the chatbot, and many of them didn't even realize they were talking to an Al. The chatbot became an integral part of paflyfish.com team, and the admins were grateful for the relief it provided from the daily grind of moderation. In the end, the admins at paflyfish.com were able to find a balance between human and machine, using the chatbot to augment their own abilities and provide even better support to the fly fishing community.

 

[troutbert]

There may be another solution. Here is an AI generated response:

What did you type in that led to that response?

 

[salmo]

There may be another solution. Here is an AI generated response:

Once upon a time, the admins at paflyfish.com were a team of dedicated fly fishing enthusiasts who spent their days moderating the site's forums and providing helpful information to the community. However, as time went on, the admins began to feel overwhelmed by the constant influx of questions and comments from users. They started to wish for a way to automate some of their tasks, so they could focus on more interesting and rewarding work. One day, they came across a new Al-powered chatbot that promised to take on many of the routine tasks of moderation and customer support. Intrigued, the admins decided to give it a try. They carefully trained the chatbot on all of their most frequently asked questions and provided it with detailed instructions on how to handle
common issues. At first, the transition to using a chat Al was a little bumpy. The admins had to spend
some time fine-tuning the chatbot's responses and adjusting to a new way of working.
But as the weeks went by, they started to see the benefits of having a virtual assistant. The chatbot was able to handle a large volume of inquiries and requests, freeing up the admins to focus on more complex and challenging tasks. The community members were also pleased with the change. They appreciated the quick and helpful responses they received from the chatbot, and many of them didn't even realize they were talking to an Al. The chatbot became an integral part of paflyfish.com team, and the admins were grateful for the relief it provided from the daily grind of moderation. In the end, the admins at paflyfish.com were able to find a balance between human and machine, using the chatbot to augment their own abilities and provide even better support to the fly fishing community.

And the Chat-bot realized that some of the site members were rude, so it caused those members to slip and fall on their favorite stream and to break their favorite fly rods. The End!!!

 

[Brown71]

Guys, guys, guys. Lighten up! My post was totally tongue-in-cheek. I was hoping to get a laugh or two.

For the record, as many of you know I'm a non-fly angler. However, I enjoy reading some of the stuff on this site and have actually learned a few things. I think the mods do a very good job. I think this site has done a lot to enhance fly fishing in Pennsylvania, and even though I don't fly fish, I recognize this as a good thing.

I agree. I’m also primarily a spin angler for trout, but enjoy this forum, as a lot of info is relevant to either method. I think Mr. Kile has done a good job with it and I hope the recent issues don’t change peoples use and opinions of this site. Happy Fishing!!

 

[caddisflyer]

The popularity of the "off the tangent" thread says a lot about people.