Off on a tangent.....

I’m somewhat new here, but I came here after being completely turned off with the other very popular fly fishing forum out there. The issue is, without moderation, a hand full of people can and will derail every thread with their constant rehashing of the same point over and over. It’s not that their opinion is invalid or inappropriate - it’s that it’s repeated over and over on every thread.

The real problem is these are not classic trolls. They are often a few very knowledge members who the forum would greatly benefit from their participation - but they simply will not allow discussions to remain on topic. There is often more behind this behavior than purely being unable to read the room.

This behavior can and will fundamentally change the culture of the forum unless its directly addressed by the moderators. I hope the moderators of this site take this into consideration.
 
I’m somewhat new here, but I came here after being completely turned off with the other very popular fly fishing forum out there. The issue is, without moderation, a hand full of people can and will derail every thread with their constant rehashing of the same point over and over. It’s not that their opinion is invalid or inappropriate - it’s that it’s repeated over and over on every thread.

The real problem is these are not classic trolls. They are often a few very knowledge members who the forum would greatly benefit from their participation - but they simply will not allow discussions to remain on topic. There is often more behind this behavior than purely being unable to read the room.

This behavior can and will fundamentally change the culture of the forum unless its directly addressed by the moderators. I hope the moderators of this site take this into consideration.
I didn't know there were any other fly fishing forums.
 
I’m somewhat new here, but I came here after being completely turned off with the other very popular fly fishing forum out there. The issue is, without moderation, a hand full of people can and will derail every thread with their constant rehashing of the same point over and over. It’s not that their opinion is invalid or inappropriate - it’s that it’s repeated over and over on every thread.

The real problem is these are not classic trolls. They are often a few very knowledge members who the forum would greatly benefit from their participation - but they simply will not allow discussions to remain on topic. There is often more behind this behavior than purely being unable to read the room.

This behavior can and will fundamentally change the culture of the forum unless its directly addressed by the moderators. I hope the moderators of this site take this into consideration.
1000000983
 
I’m somewhat new here, but I came here after being completely turned off with the other very popular fly fishing forum out there. The issue is, without moderation, a hand full of people can and will derail every thread with their constant rehashing of the same point over and over. It’s not that their opinion is invalid or inappropriate - it’s that it’s repeated over and over on every thread.

The real problem is these are not classic trolls. They are often a few very knowledge members who the forum would greatly benefit from their participation - but they simply will not allow discussions to remain on topic. There is often more behind this behavior than purely being unable to read the room.

This behavior can and will fundamentally change the culture of the forum unless its directly addressed by the moderators. I hope the moderators of this site take this into consideration.
I'm confident things will get better.
 
Thanks for the coaching. I do try to relate my replies to the original topic but can also admit to crossing past the tangential line sometimes.
I've never been insulted by having to be told that my comments belong somewhere else - not even when I blunder into a face-to-face conversation, let alone a social media page.
 
Lately I've skimmed the (many) derailed threads for amusement, but not for ideas. And that sucks. I think this forum is a uniquely valuable resource, especially when so much of the internet is hot garbage. Let's not turn this place turn into recursive hot garbage.
 
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Thanks for the coaching. I do try to relate my replies to the original topic but can also admit to crossing past the tangential line sometimes.
I've never been insulted by having to be told that my comments belong somewhere else - not even when I blunder into a face-to-face conversation, let alone a social media page.
I don't think taking a thread off-course is necessarily bad. It's the just the natural direction of the conversational nature of this type of forum.

What the forum has experienced in recent months is something different altogether. It's akin to knowing someone who wants to bring up politics in every conversation. Even if you agree with them you are just sick of that sort of conversation.
 
Its all 1 person, we know who it is. However the moderation around here needs work at times. I got a 'talking to' not long ago because of something i said to another member i absolutely should not have, i lost my cool. However, the reason it all occurred is because the person came after me first. The original post that started it all was never moderated though, its still there to this day...as well as a post by someone from the peanut gallery who also came after personally. I just checked again now and it looks like my reply to the peanut gallery poster (who came after me personally for like the 5th time) is still there but my response to them was moderated...

Keep in mind that i was on topic in these threads asking legitimate questions and participating in the topic at hand. It starts at the top and trickles down like everything else so why its ok for certain members to attack others i am not sure
 
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Its all 1 person, we know who it is. However the moderation around here needs work at times. I got a 'talking to' not long ago because of something i said to another membee i absolutely should not have, i lost my cool. However, the reason it all occurred is because the person came after me first. The original post that started it all was never moderated though, its still there to this day...
I'll dock their pay
 
FWIW i really enjoy this board and have met guys here that are friends who i never would have met otherwise. So i appreciate you and the mods and what you guys provide here. Its cool, theres not a lot of boards like this on the internet. Was just a little taken aback by the situation i described. Hopefully its an isolated incident and everyone involved can just move on and get back to the topics at hand. Hopefully we can fish together one day, you are always welcome on my boat Dave, anytime
 
FWIW i really enjoy this board and have met guys here that are friends who i never would have met otherwise. So i appreciate you and the mods and what you guys provide here. Its cool, theres not a lot of boards like this on the internet. Was just a little taken aback by the situation i described. Hopefully its an isolated incident and everyone involved can just move on and get back to the topics at hand. Hopefully we can fish together one day, you are always welcome on my boat Dave, anytime

Aside from me being a smart ***, over the last 28 years here on the site, 99% of the moderation is not seen by the members on the forum. I like it that way. Generally speaking, we don't openly discuss our actions with individuals, unless they want to acknowledge they have had a 'talking to' with everyone. We keep those things private. A lot of thought and time has gone into how the site is handled. We have had a lot of conversations with many people on how to approach things here on Paflyfish. We like to take steps to give everyone a chance to fit in. Not everyone's style is a fit.

Since there was no manual back in 1995 to start a fly fishing website and forum, I had to write our own book. It may not be the best forum on the Internet, but I feel good we are not the worst. I can say we do the best we can to be objective and give everyone a fair shake as long as they are willing to work with us.

When I do write my book on "How to Run a Fly Fishing Forum and Be a Millionaire," there is a chapter called "Wack-A-Mole: How Some People are Just Jerks and Need to Be Banned." These are the kind of people that somehow think they can outplay admins and mods on a site. It is one of my favorite chapters. Lots of good stories of people over the years physically threatening us, saying "they're gonna burn this site down" and all sorts of sneaky games that we see over and over again.

Another chapter will be called "Sigmund Freud and The House at Pooh Corner." When I was in business, I kinda looked at my employees like characters from Winnie the Pooh. This was never intended to be negative, but an easy way for me to understand each person a little better. I had my very excitable employees (Tigger), then there were those that were always a little down in the dumps (Eeyore), we had the quiet thoughtful ones (Owl) and so on. I feel that Sigmund Freud would have had a field day with all the crazy behavior on the Internet. I would think he would have a few things to say about the House at Pooh Corner and comparing people's Internet behavior.

Like I said, the site is not for everyone, but I hope those that do like to participate enjoy their time here. Most importantly, give back to the sport that many of us so enjoy and this is my way of doing just that.
 
Aside from me being a smart ***, over the last 28 years here on the site, 99% of the moderation is not seen by the members on the forum. I like it that way. Generally speaking, we don't openly discuss our actions with individuals, unless they want to acknowledge they have had a 'talking to' with everyone. We keep those things private. A lot of thought and time has gone into how the site is handled. We have had a lot of conversations with many people on how to approach things here on Paflyfish. We like to take steps to give everyone a chance to fit in. Not everyone's style is a fit.

Since there was no manual back in 1995 to start a fly fishing website and forum, I had to write our own book. It may not be the best forum on the Internet, but I feel good we are not the worst. I can say we do the best we can to be objective and give everyone a fair shake as long as they are willing to work with us.

When I do write my book on "How to Run a Fly Fishing Forum and Be a Millionaire," there is a chapter called "Wack-A-Mole: How Some People are Just Jerks and Need to Be Banned." These are the kind of people that somehow think they can outplay admins and mods on a site. It is one of my favorite chapters. Lots of good stories of people over the years physically threatening us, saying "they're gonna burn this site down" and all sorts of sneaky games that we see over and over again.

Another chapter will be called "Sigmund Freud and The House at Pooh Corner." When I was in business, I kinda looked at my employees like characters from Winnie the Pooh. This was never intended to be negative, but an easy way for me to understand each person a little better. I had my very excitable employees (Tigger), then there were those that were always a little down in the dumps (Eeyore), we had the quiet thoughtful ones (Owl) and so on. I feel that Sigmund Freud would have had a field day with all the crazy behavior on the Internet. I would think he would have a few things to say about the House at Pooh Corner and comparing people's Internet behavior.

Like I said, the site is not for everyone, but I hope those that do like to participate enjoy their time here. Most importantly, give back to the sport that many of us so enjoy and this is my way of doing just that.
And Dave, I will just say thanks for all that you do and the other mods. It may not be perfect, but nothing is. All I know is the 10 years that I have participated here has led to meeting great people, learning new tactics, and mostly nothing but positive things.

So thanks a bunch. Here's to another 10 years participation from me, I hope.

Just one quick edit: let us all remember this is a free site for us and participation is optional. I like it around here.
 
Dave, I love a good smart alec and to have a good time laughing and cutting up while fishing. Talk to Andy and come up to the delaware this spring. I know he mentioned you were thinking of coming up last year but it didnt work out. Hopefully this year you can make it!!

Like jfingz said, thanks for having us all here i too really enjoy this board
 
It could be tangential, as is being discussed in a round about way, but then again I was out on Big Spring one evening with a friend of mine who had just been made president of a fly fishing club. We were at our cars getting ready to take our rods down when a conservation officer pulled up. It was one of those multiple opening days that they have now in Pennsylvania, and he had come from a day of angling tomfoolery: kids wandering into the run with night crawlers, clandestine snagging and a few fellows who indulged in more alcohol than would seem healthy. Now I will say that a nip or three of nice bourbon over the span of an afternoon, can really enhance a day on the water, but that’s not what our fish cop friend had been dealing with.

So a few words about my buddy. He is a meticulous angler who prefers to start his day with dry flies if he happens to see a single midge in the air, never mind if the water is high and the trout are hunkered on the bottom. When he changes flies, he opens his box and always seems surprised what’s inside, even though he ties his own. He’s very generous, by the way, with his flies, which are flawless, and his advice, which is not. Mainly, though, he’s very prepared. But not on this occasion.

We are standing outside the officer’s truck and we (mostly the fish cop and me) talking about the old days at boiling springs, and especially Ed Koch, who ran the fly shop when I was a kid and had a reputation for being a little on the anti social side. Turns out my new officer friend did some yard work for the old author of Fishing The Midge and recounted a few stories of doing things to provoke the old man. The one that I remember involved the future wildlife officer killing a pretty long snake and putting it in a place where Ed would find it. Ed found it as planned and, by the account explained to me and my friend, the new president of a fly fishing club, hilarity ensued.

My friend and I fully expected to go through the ritual of having our licenses checked, but 45 minutes of dialogue with my friend offering the occasional “I remember that,” and a little nervous laughter, convinced the officer that we hadn’t been using bait and were on the up and up.

It was nearly dark when the conversation ended and we started to break down. My friend, who had an appointment with his wife (a real sweetheart, but far be it from me to wander down a tangential trail), so I didn’t think twice when he put his rod in the car without breaking it down and left still wearing his boots.

Time was on my side so I disassembled and changed into civilian clothes at my leisure.

I was about a mile off the lot when my phone rang, though they really don’t ring anymore so much as chirp or quack or chime, but I wouldn’t want to go into a side part of the tale.

The call was from my friend, which seemed odd since we had spent as much time flapping jaw as casting to trout. And it was reflected in our low to-net totals on the day. I picked up, thinking it was a butt dial. We talked for about 15 minutes, but I’m not one to prolong a story by adding in macguffin side details and such, so it’ll suffice to say my friend wanted to share a laugh because he had forgotten to buy his Pennsylvania license before our trip (the season being new and all).

This explained his uncharacteristic lack of conversational contributions to me and the warden.

So you can call it a tangent when someone tries to make every conversation about the evils of a component of fishery management that causes his tail to get wrapped around an axel, or you can enjoy the repartee and do what you can to steer things in another direction.

Just remember, brother anglers, we are among friends here, so we will be at our best when we try to understand each other’s differences of opinion and recognize that we all want what’s best for the sport, the fishery and the camaraderie made possible by sharing our stories.
 
I agreed. We are all members of the same society, FFA Fly Fishermen Anonymous or perhaps more correctly Fly Fisherpersons Anonymous. We are driven by a common addiction. Instead of trying to get cured we encourage each other to dive more deeply into our affliction. Some of us are old and crotchety and others green. All (or most) are human. Let’s agree to disagree and move on. If I let the opinions of others guide with whom I fish, I would always be alone stream side. Early on I almost left the site based on a comment that I deemed “rude.” Another member corrected the way I handled fish. Lesson learned.
 
Am I one of these old and crotchety / antisocial types that keep being mentioned? 🤣🤣. I'll stand by my self description of "I'm one of the nicest azzholes you'll ever meet". Wear it with pride 😁

Wholeheartedly agree that not everyone has to have the same opinion nor will they ever all have the same opinion. We do this for fun, for the challenge and many have made friends along the way. Love the sport, love the site and hopefully I'm allowed to hang around another 15-20 years.
 
I'd like to just say that I appreciate this site and visit it almost every day to get a "dose" of flyfishing talk. I have not been able to fish nearly as much as I would like to due to family obligations the last few years and this site keeps me wanting to get out more.
To Dave and his highly paid Moderators ( sarcasm folks ) I just want to say thank you.
 
I love this forum, regardless of any thread hijacking that takes place. It's as simple as just moving on from a thread with posts that annoy you. Really, it's that simple.

Life is too short to let the little things complicate it. Happy Holidays everyone! 🎄
 
I’ve been a reader of and contributed to what probably amounts to hundreds of forums in my nearly 3 internet-enlightened decades of life. The one commonality I’ve observed between those conversing about woodworking, rockhounding, black powder, amateur pyrotechnics, personal finance and investments, mountaineering, ice climbing, backpacking, the cultivation of certain controversial botanicals (eyyo college days), craft beer, and God only knows what else is that threads slide and people go off topic. Hell, try playing a game of darts with 4 people at the bar and see how long it takes to finish one round. Human attention spans are variable and sometimes the best stuff happens between the serious points anyway.

As far as this forum goes, big credit to Dave Kile for creating a space for normally tacit and solitary creatures (fly anglers) to open up and talk shop. I didn’t even know this site existed 2 years ago and now I visit it almost daily (generally while I’m supposed to be productive at work). And I figure if the brook trout truthers and troublemakers keep making noise, I’ll start spot burning all their blue lines 😂.
 
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