Nymph with or without Indicator

[MKern]

I do both.
Sometimes it's a foam bobber style, sometimes it colored mono inline, and sometimes it's a dry fly.

Different situations require different methods. For instance, higher water nymphing might require a high floating indicator to detects water currents and obviously strikes.

Sometimes I tie on a parachute dry and then a tiny black ant that will sink just below the surface. The parachute is just an indicator that is less likely to spook fish that are waiting and opportunistic for ants to hit the water.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Alot depends on water depth.

However, there has been days where i have had to make the adjustment to the other in order for the catch/cast ratio to improve.

 

[troutfanatic]

I use indicators less and less as time goes by. More than anything, I guess it is dictated by where I fish. In the wild trout streams here in NC, I prefer to run a foam-bodied fly with a nymph underneath. Typically, I go with foam body hoppers, neversink caddis and foam stones. If not that, I use a stim or EHC. In deeper water, I may run a double dropper like a PTN with a midge underneath. If the foam or dry fly won't handle the weight, I will put an indicator on.

 

[chromid]

Been fly fishing for 45 years so I have learned to nymph without an indicator and rarely if ever use them. I have seen them develop in all sorts of variations. With the exception of Hopper Dropper rigs out west and to a limited extent back here, to me they are a short cut or crutch. They may aid in presentation in some situations, but so does learning proper technique.

I agree with the earlier posts that it is a shame that those new to the sport immediately jump to the methods that diminish the learning process of proper presentation.

 

[Dale49]

I fish with many methods - high stick; indicator; Euro; dry/dropper; swing and dry fly. I use sighter and non-sighter leaders with and without and indicator. When using indicators, it's generally long distance or when fishing streams with vegetation on the bottom. An indicator is not a crutch to me but a specific technique.

I don't agree with some posters that using an indicator is a crutch and prevents an angler from learning other methods. If that's what is comfortable to the angler and the and such angler is successful, so be it. If an angler wants to learn another method, that's up to the angler.

Just my 2 cents.

Dale

 

[mr7183]

troutbert wrote:
Most people now seem to connect nymphing without an indicator with real short line nymphing, i.e high sticking.

But if you've never tried nymphing without an indicator, making medium or even longer casts, 25, 30, 40 feet etc, just try it, it's interesting.

Back in the early 1970s no one used indicators, and I don't think they existed. So we fished nymphs without them, when fishing a short line, medium line, long line. We didn't have indicators, so didn't know we know we "needed" them!

What is the best way to feel or detect strikes on a 25-40 foot cast with no indicator?

 

[SBecker]

Watch your line and grease your leader.


Troutbert, what is your definition of real short line nymphing?

 

[troutbert]

mr7183 wrote:

troutbert wrote:
Most people now seem to connect nymphing without an indicator with real short line nymphing, i.e high sticking.

But if you've never tried nymphing without an indicator, making medium or even longer casts, 25, 30, 40 feet etc, just try it, it's interesting.

Back in the early 1970s no one used indicators, and I don't think they existed. So we fished nymphs without them, when fishing a short line, medium line, long line. We didn't have indicators, so didn't know we know we "needed" them!

What is the best way to feel or detect strikes on a 25-40 foot cast with no indicator?

You just watch the line rather than the indicator.

 

[troutbert]

SBecker wrote:
Watch your line and grease your leader.

Troutbert, what is your definition of real short line nymphing?

Maybe you could explain a little bit more what you're thinking about, what you want to discuss.

 

[SBecker]

You said people seem to associate high sticking to short line nymphing. I was just wondering what length leaders you are saying people think is associated with high sticking.

I personally don't associate any length leader with high sticking. High sticking to me is a technique with the angle of the rod and can be done with basically any size leader.

Just interested on your take.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

I am a self starter - no help at all in other words - I thought Fly fishing really sucked for the first two years - until someone told me to use a dry fly indicator with a dropper. It was not until then that I caught my first trout on the fly. From that point on my skills increased and my love of flyfishing increased greatly and I yearned to learn and understand more.

 

[troutbert]

SBecker wrote:
You said people seem to associate high sticking to short line nymphing. I was just wondering what length leaders you are saying people think is associated with high sticking.

I personally don't associate any length leader with high sticking. High sticking to me is a technique with the angle of the rod and can be done with basically any size leader.

Just interested on your take.

This goes back to post #22, where I said:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Most people now seem to connect nymphing without an indicator with real short line nymphing, i.e high sticking.

But if you've never tried nymphing without an indicator, making medium or even longer casts, 25, 30, 40 feet etc, just try it, it's interesting. "
--------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't thinking about leaders. I was thinking about it in the same way as you. Just basic high sticking.

And my point was that many people tend to fish nymphs either of two ways:

1) High sticking

2) When fishing with more line/leader out there across the water, using a floating indicator.

And I'm suggesting trying #3, which is similar to #2, fishing with more line/leader out there, just without a floating indicator.

Not because it results in more fish. I think you will probably catch more fish with the floating indicator than without. And not to be a purist. But just because it's fun. An interesting change and challenge, for those who haven't tried it.

 

[krayfish2]

Troutbert,
At 40' with no indi, you have to almost swing them to feel a strike or rely on seeing your line / leader make an unusual movement, agree? Keeping the line right or swinging I think would yield plenty of hook ups under the right conditions. I'd have to think that watching the leader method wolud miss a majority or the take in faster water. It would almost hand to be suspended pattern where you'd see something other than line floating. Just my take on it.

 

[krayfish2]

For those that feel indi is a crutch / cheater gear and feel a hopper dropper is really how it should be done......
What size hopper will allow me to suspend a #6 golden stone and #14 beadhead pheasant tail? Maybe a #2 chernobyl ant which is nothing more than a foam indi with a hook in it.

I'll be damned if I'm going to wade chin deep in Lehigh so I can tight line the far seam without cheating. I'll stay knee deep, fish an indi, throw it 60' and toss a sloppy pile of slack in that general direction. I'll thank the fish for letting me cheat as I'm taking it out of the net.

Ever wonder why fly fishers are called snobby, pretentious elitists? Maybe it's because some you look down on others if they don't use "your" methods. Hey, I don't look down on Shane for using jigs. LOL. As long as you don't use bamboo, you're alright by me.

 

[SBecker]

Only way to catch fish with bamboo is to beat the fish with the rod like an old rug.

 

[SBecker]

troutbert wrote:

SBecker wrote:
You said people seem to associate high sticking to short line nymphing. I was just wondering what length leaders you are saying people think is associated with high sticking.

I personally don't associate any length leader with high sticking. High sticking to me is a technique with the angle of the rod and can be done with basically any size leader.

Just interested on your take.

This goes back to post #22, where I said:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Most people now seem to connect nymphing without an indicator with real short line nymphing, i.e high sticking.

But if you've never tried nymphing without an indicator, making medium or even longer casts, 25, 30, 40 feet etc, just try it, it's interesting. "
--------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't thinking about leaders. I was thinking about it in the same way as you. Just basic high sticking.

And my point was that many people tend to fish nymphs either of two ways:

1) High sticking

2) When fishing with more line/leader out there across the water, using a floating indicator.

And I'm suggesting trying #3, which is similar to #2, fishing with more line/leader out there, just without a floating indicator.

Not because it results in more fish. I think you will probably catch more fish with the floating indicator than without. And not to be a purist. But just because it's fun. An interesting change and challenge, for those who haven't tried it.

I gotcha now. You are just saying people think high sticking can be done at close range, correct?

 

[troutbert]

krayfish2 wrote:

I'll stay knee deep, fish an indi, throw it 60' and toss a sloppy pile of slack in that general direction.

That's what I'm talking about.

I'm fishing pretty much the same way, just minus the indicator.

There are minor differences. You can't suspend the nymph, so the amount of weight you use might be different sometimes.

And detecting the strikes is a little more challenging, but far from impossible.

Unlike some of the others, I've never said or suggested that using indicators is wrong.

I'm just suggesting that if you haven't tried fishing that way, just try it, because it's fun. It's just another thing to add variety.

 

[SBecker]

I think we all can agree that there is no wrong way to fly fish. Everybody enjoys fishing their own ways. Some prefer challenging themselves or giving themselves a bigger handicap.

Now, what is your take on the spread of ice fishing holes and patterns?

 

[PennypackFlyer]

It is difficult to keep it in the strike zone.

 

[mr7183]

Do any of you guys think fishing without an indi at long distances is actually more effective? I get the impression that you guys simply think it is more fun.

Up close I can see an argument for it being more effective as it could be easier to get your fly down without an indi while still being able to feel strikes.