Nymph with or without Indicator

[BrookieChaser]

I think long line nymphing without an indicator is just as effective as with an indicator, maybe more so if you factor in spooked fish and flubbed casts due to indicators. I don't know, I only know one side of the fence.
I rely on the feeling in my line hand and watching the drift to detect strikes. 8/10 I'm fighting a fish before it even consciously registers in my mind there was a take. It has become instinct in a way. So maybe my way is more effective because I'm relying on a better connection to the nymph rather than just a bobber.

I think a bobber is a learning tool to make the learning curve easier by giving the new angler something larger on the surface of the water to understand, and translate, what's going on under the surface of the water.

The thing is, the sport has transformed into a group where the majority of anglers learned using said crutch and now think it is the only way to fish nymphs.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

mr7183 wrote:
Do any of you guys think fishing without an indi at long distances is actually more effective? I get the impression that you guys simply think it is more fun.

Up close I can see an argument for it being more effective as it could be easier to get your fly down without an indi while still being able to feel strikes.

It is NOT more effective for me. I think some fellas just enjoy the extra challenge of fishing at a distance without an indi. IMO if you want to catch fish at a distance use the indi. I will also add that very seldom do I feel the strike, I see the indi , sighter or end of the fly line move but I don't feel it, I see it.

 

[SBecker]

mr7183 wrote:
Do any of you guys think fishing without an indi at long distances is actually more effective? I get the impression that you guys simply think it is more fun.

Depends on the water type. Seriously. Shallow water at a distance without an indi I will be more effective. 7 ft deep and 50 ft away on the Delaware? I would say no. 2 foot deep water on the Delaware with relatively the same currents? Toss up but I would go without indi due to spookiness of fish.

 

[chromid]

+1 Troutbert...

Referencing my earlier post, too many especially those new to FFing assume that the use of an indi is the only way to nymph. There are no two seams, currents , or trout that are the same, and each requires a different application or presentation. In my opinion, approaching any stream with a preconceived notion of how you are going to fish it is a recipe for disaster. To me FFing is a continual learning process even after 40+ years. The techniques that you gather along the way are just as important (or even more important) as the flies in your pack.

Kray...

I am sorry you construed my earlier post as "elitist, snobbish, or purist", I am far from it. I in no way indicated that indi's were cheating, (I did say I thought they were a crutch) but do feel that they limit some from exploring techniques that work and are beneficial.

And I don't have a bamboo rod either!

 

[WildTigerTrout]

BrookieChaser wrote:
I think long line nymphing without an indicator is just as effective as with an indicator, maybe more so if you factor in spooked fish and flubbed casts due to indicators. I don't know, I only know one side of the fence.
I rely on the feeling in my line hand and watching the drift to detect strikes. 8/10 I'm fighting a fish before it even consciously registers in my mind there was a take. It has become instinct in a way. So maybe my way is more effective because I'm relying on a better connection to the nymph rather than just a bobber.

I think a bobber is a learning tool to make the learning curve easier by giving the new angler something larger on the surface of the water to understand, and translate, what's going on under the surface of the water.

The thing is, the sport has transformed into a group where the majority of anglers learned using said crutch and now think it is the only way to fish nymphs.

Indicators and tippet rings are not just for beginners. I know several anglers with many years of experience use both and they certainly do not consider either a crutch. BTW an indi is not a bobber, a bobber is used in still water with the bait suspended directly under it. An indi is used in moving water with the fly trailing behind.

 

[BrookieChaser]

The indicator (example: thingamabobber) I'm referencing is a bobber. Flyfishermen have a way of churching things up. It's a gas station bait shop bobber painted a fluorescent color.

 

[Fishidiot]

mr7183 wrote:
Do any of you guys think fishing without an indi at long distances is actually more effective?

Depends. I like an indie for long distance much of the time.

I do a lot of bass fishing on rivers and a streamer or crayfish pattern fished at distance under a large cork indie (yeah, it's a "bobber") is among my most effective approaches. If you haven't tried fishing a streamer with an indicator, you might give it a try - very effective IMO. This is particularly true during the colder months of the year when strikes are subtle.

 

[McSneek]

Fish how ever the heck you please. After all, it's fishing for crying out loud and its supposed to be fun so if you're not having fun at it, might as well take up a new hobby.

Bobbers, in still or fast water, are intended to suspend your bait or fly off the bottom. When I nymph with an indicator on my leader, which is how I do a lot of my nymphing, I still want my fly ticking the stream bottom and I often get snagged. there is a difference.

 

[krayfish2]

+1

Go to your church, I'll go to mine. I'm pretty sure the object is to have fun out there which is what I try to do. Some days it's with a gas station bobber, some days it's tight lining. I'll also disagree that fishing one way over the other makes you a better fisherman. I need the indi so I can see where in the hell I'm casting. My marbles aren't so good anymore. LOL. If fishing from a boat, I think they are definitely more effective.

Carry on

 

[djs12354]

Risking the jokes, I'll chime in with going both ways.

Deeper, quicker water, I use an indicator of some type (Thingamabobber, Stimmie, or Elk Hair Caddis)

Shallow, slower water, I will skip the indie.

Still learning both methods.

 

[Lutz]

I apologize if someone already made clarifications on terminology. I'm under the impression that an indicator could be anything that is used to expose information or detect strikes during the drift. This could be the end of your fly line, a colored section of leader, a bobber, a dry fly, etc. Then, there is a major division in types of indicators: "sighters" and "suspenders."

A "sighter" best describes a more visible section of the leader, and does not suspend your rig.

A "suspender" does what it implies and acts like a hinge in your line.

I don't mean to change how people identify their rigs, I'm just sharing the break down that is logical for me.

This has been a worthwhile thread.

 

[lineman]

I agree with krayfish2 in post #89. Sounds pretty pretentious to me to imply that an angler that uses any type of indicator, hopper/dropper, bobber or however you want to label it, is a "beginner" or has to use a "crutch".
My goal when I fish is to relax and have fun. The way I achieve that goal is by catching fish. Sometimes I use an indicator and sometimes I don't, depends on the situation.
I would bet dollars to donuts that those anglers that possess that God given talent to detect any and all takes to their nymphs by feel and line movement actually fail to recognize 50% of said takes.
So all the prim and proper purists that truly want to realize how many fish they're missing might want to try some type of indicator to see if it improves your hookups. If it doesn't or your concern is not catching fish then don't use one.
Could it be that a lot of the fish you are catching are the ones that couldn't spit the nymph and more or less hooked themselves?
It's been my observation in my almost 50 years of being a "beginner" fly fisherman that with two anglers of equal skill, the one with the indicator will always out fish the other.

 

[krayfish2]

Well put. I'm a suspender.

 

[pro4mance]

But you hang with Spicolli so you are ahead of the Curve, lol

 

[krayfish2]

And would probably test 'hot' due to contact high LOL

Btw Norm, that dude can fish .... And he's about a 2 handicap on the links.

 

[SBecker]

djs12354 wrote:
Risking the jokes, I'll chime in with going both ways.

Deeper, quicker water, I use an indicator of some type (Thingamabobber, Stimmie, or Elk Hair Caddis)

D,
If you are close enough to "highstick" this type a water do it. The water under the fast top level will be slower. If you are using a suspension device it is more then likely pulling your flies quickly through. Where if you "highstick" or whatever you want to call it you will have less drag on your flies and you can slow down your drift. Imo

 

[afishinado]

The more you fish, the more ways you learn to fish.

I use an indy when run into water where fishing at distance over several current speeds because you able to mend to the indy at a distance to get a good drift

High-sticking / Euro works best for me closer in and in water with depth and/or current speed changes. You are better able to control your drift and depth by your casting (tuck to get it down quickly or lay it out in shallow water). Also, you can follow the contour of the bottom without constantly moving you indy up and down by changing your rod angle. You can feel along the rocks and change your rod angle and/or cast to keep your drift right in the zone.

It took me a long time to get the hang of nymphing on my own by spending time on the water. Anyone can learn about all about nymphing by reading George Daniels book - Dynamic Nymphing. The book explains many things about nymphing both with and without an indy.

LOL...the best lessons I learned about fishing sunken fly was back from my bait fishing days :-o. Fish a wet or nymph like a waxworm or crawler and voila!......the fish will come.

 

[rubby]

I used a piece of amnesia with loops tie in each end to connect to fly line & leader, about six inches long

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

LOL...the best lessons I learned about fishing sunken fly was back from my bait fishing days :-o. Fish a wet or nymph like a waxworm or crawler and voila!......the fish will come.

Did you use an indicator when fishing bait? A lot of the old school guys fished bait with fly rods (some still do), and I've never seen any of those guys use a strike indicator.

And they were able to get good drifts, and detect strikes, and not just when fishing a short, tight line, but also when fishing long drifts with a fair bit of line out.

 

[JeffK]

The days of yore. When I was a kid the best bait guys I knew used fly rods to fish salmon eggs or trout worms with great success. They high sticked more close in and flipped a little more line out with an "ess" shape to drift through the riffles. I also do not remember anything on their lines.

Which brings a lot of interesting thoughts on the fly/bait divide. I have always claimed that there aren't the expert bait fishermen of days past today. Most bait guys just dunk worms and when they get a little comfortable switch to flies, but they never have the tricks up their sleeves the old timers did. The old timers easily switched to nymph fishing and did often call it bait fishing with a fly (first mention of this in Tad Norris' book 150 years ago). One of my biggest spurs to learning nymph fishing nearly 50 years ago was in late May when the low, clear water slowed down the conventional bait guys and one guy then put on a 16 pheasant tail and slaughtered them, including a beautiful 18" brown. Didn't take me long to learn to tie small nymphs after that. The other story was early in my fly days I was fishing with a real pro fly fisherman in amongst the crowds on Opening Day. He, as usual, was catching more than his fair share on nymphs. When a neighboring bait guy asked what he was using, he replied "a caddis larva." Well, the bait guy pinched the end of a worm off and threaded on his hook to look like a larva and started catching fish after fish - and thanked my buddy. The fly guy was a little taken aback at this, but it was right in line with how the old bait guys I knew operated.

Maybe today's nymphers are just relearning the bag of tricks all the traditional bait experts knew well.