Nicholas Meats coming for Big Fishing Creek’s cold spring water May 4rth Comments(written and in person needed).

sixfootfenwick said:
These are all good points and great questions.
Of course I don't have answers to them but I would like to point out, holding companies accountable and only dealing with honest ones is, and should be, 1st and foremost.

Hide things so you can purposely break permits, that should be an automatic denial of future permits. Right? I mean doesn't that seem obvious?

If we cant get to that stage, why even have any?


I have no issue with responsible companies, following laws and regulations.
I take exception to those that don't, purposely.

If not following laws meant death to your business, and another company who follows the law would fill your shoes, we would give them incentive to be honest.
Click to expand...
No one ever said to allow companies and corporations to break rules and not be held accountable. I did not imply it nor did anyone else.

Even if they do it all the "legal way" you all are still opposed, are you not? Even if they follow the guidelines of water consumption that others have pointed out which will quadruple or whatever in the next 15 years, no one here wants it, yet I am going to cook three strip steaks this weekend while camping.

If they were dishonest in the past then they should have been fined and reprimanded. Still it holds true, no one wants it in their backyard. I live near a chicken producer for Empire Kosher. Sometimes it smells terrible. People complain about it, but I am eating chicken today for lunch.....
 
We shouldn't be factory farming. Period.

We shouldn't be consuming meat or dairy at the level that we do or from the cheap price production methods that we do. Period.

I'm not local and don't know the history, so this is far from my fight, but trusting companies whose entire business model is causing mass ecological damage to be ecologically sound is... ya know... dumb.
 
jifigz said:
No one ever said to allow companies and corporations to break rules and not be held accountable. I did not imply it nor did anyone else.

Even if they do it all the "legal way" you all are still opposed, are you not? Even if they follow the guidelines of water consumption that others have pointed out which will quadruple or whatever in the next 15 years, no one here wants it, yet I am going to cook three strip steaks this weekend while camping.

If they were dishonest in the past then they should have been fined and reprimanded. Still it holds true, no one wants it in their backyard. I live near a chicken producer for Empire Kosher. Sometimes it smells terrible. People complain about it, but I am eating chicken today for lunch.....
Click to expand...
I didn't say you implied it or anyone else.
We are discussing is this particular company, which has a history, you may look it up or not 🤷

If they did it all the legal way, I wouldnt be AS opposed as I am right now. In fact I may be supportive of a company that was honest and had plans in the works to reduce consumption/ waste as they apparently do.

But because of their past, absolutely not. Not one bit.
You say fined and reprimanded, I say for egregious skirting of permits and flat out denial of them, no more permits. It just seems obvious.


How much bacon or chicken you eat is not useful to anything I've been trying to point out. But I do recommend a good heart doctor.
 
Last edited:
Fish Sticks said:
“Within the same proposal are plans for dramatic expansion of that withdrawal in the next fifteen years. Nicholas Meats indicates the rise of water demand to increase by four times. That’s a daily usage of 700,000 gallons/day, or 255,500,000 gallons/year.”
Click to expand...
It's also over 2.5 bilion for decade and 25 billion per century! :rolleyes:

I am not a fan either, but arguing against it because of 60 gpm is a loosing battle no matter how long you stretch it out. Most of us can do math. It sounds like there are better arguments against it.

I agree with TB. Wrong place. Have them buy my farm and move it here. I have way more water than that, and the area could use the jobs. I'll even throw a couple head of cattle in on the deal.;)
 
Last edited:
krayfish2 said:
Am I the only one who thinks that Nicholas Meats would be an awesome adult "actor" name? 🤣🤣🤣
Click to expand...
We may have here the one thing that everyone on the forum can agree on!
 
This bothers me so much...I wish I couuld attend the meeting but I have to work. These watersheds especially on special streams like these need as much protection as they can get!
 
jifigz said:
You folks are probably right that nothing good can and will come of this, after all, modern human civilization draws heavily on the lands and resources around us. Humans always have, at least we have safeguards in place today and at least nature is and can be resilient.

On a broader scale, I am no vegetarian/vegan so how do we continue to produce foods for the world when everyone has a "not in my backyard" stance. Agriculture is the single largest use of water there is and the demands are only going to continue to grow as the human population surges. Do you have any idea how much water a large dairy farm uses....because it is A LOT. How regulated are dairy farms and their well usage? Would we be up in arms if 3 large dairy farms were opening in the area each supporting a family? Probably not because it wouldn't be as advertised and the water usage would be similar. I am not sure how perceptible the amount of water they will be drawing for this operation will be to the actual flows of BFC. None of us are, we are speculating and siding with the side of caution to protect the resource we love.

Either way, we will see what happens in the long run. But yeah, everyone wants to utilize oil/gas, eat beef, chicken, drink milk, but no one ever wants the oil and gas wells/pipelines in their neighborhood. No one wants a slaughterhouse just down the road. What is the answer and how do we make it all work?
Click to expand...
Yet people on this site periodically let loose on vegans.
 
JeffP said:
Yet people on this site periodically let loose on vegans..
Click to expand...
My mention of me not being a Vega/vegetarian is because I am a potential customer of this company. I may have eaten meats they've processed in the past. Maybe often, who knows?

With the point being water consumption and agriculture being a huge source of water consumption, plant based farming is not necessarily any better. Irrigation of crops in the Midwest is drying up aquifers. My family is very involved in agriculture and have been commercial beekeepers since the 1940's. Pollination is our game and you realize how much water those orchards you place thousands of bee colonies in uses. If you eat almonds you see using A LOT of that precious water of California.

Feeding more people is gonna be a problem and water will be increasingly more valuable.
 
JeffP said:
Yet people on this site periodically let loose on vegans.
Click to expand...
My beef is locally raised and is locally buchered and not from some massive processing plant. That processing plant was built in a very poor location and pretty much ruined the town of Loganton with its disgusting smell and truck traffic. It should have been built out where 880 comes down off the mountain right before interstate 80. The processing plant got way too big for its britches!

Oh and everyone saying about how it created jobs...does anyone know anyone who actually works there? Everyone I know that works there came from outside the state (or country) to begin with. Actual residents I don't think would care to do that job or work in those conditions.
 
Last edited:
bigjohn358 said:
My beef is locally raised and is locally buchered and not from some massive processing plant. That processing plant was built in a very poor location and pretty much ruined the town of Loganton with its disgusting smell and truck traffic. It should have been built out where 880 comes down off the mountain right before interstate 80. The processing plant got way too big for its britches!

Oh and everyone saying about how it created jobs...does anyone know anyone who actually works there? Everyone I know that works there came from outside the state (or country) to begin with. Actual residents I don't think would care to do that job or work in those conditions.
Click to expand...
I believe I was the first, and maybe the only person who mentioned creating jobs. I ask that you leave it in context. I only suggested that after agreeing with Troutbert that the current proposed location is a bad choice. It was also after I suggested (slightly in gest), that they should buy my farm. I have lots of water and no trout would be harmed.

We may have more in common than you might think. I get all of my beef locally, as in my back yard, and I have used a couple different processing facilities. Both are out in farm country, where they should be. The first one was great, but during covid, their wait list grew to 18 months. More people raising their own, or buying beef by the side. Since I only raise beef for myself, and a few friends and family, that did not work for me. So I switched to a larger meat packing facility farther away that only needed 2-3 weeks notice depending on time of year. They are still much smaller than what we appear to be talking about. There was a third one maybe a mile away from my place that was even smaller, but that closed down shortly after I moved here. or I would have used him. I am also familiar with a few others. All of them small, and employ local people.

I'm a big fan of buying and hiring local.

To answer your question, no. I was not familiar with that company or their hiring practices, but after googling, I am not a fan. I apologize if I was out of line. Any more questions?
 
Last edited:
The meat packing industry still earns the rapine and repugnant reputation that it acquired in the past. Energy, mining and meat packing all have very negative impacts where they ply their trade.
 
FarmerDave said:
I believe I was the first, and maybe the only person who mentioned creating jobs. I ask that you leave it in context. I only suggested that after agreeing with Troutbert that the current proposed location is a bad choice. It was also after I suggested (slightly in gest), that they should buy my farm. I have lots of water and no trout would be harmed.

We may have more in common than you might think. I get all of my beef locally, as in my back yard, and I have used a couple different processing facilities. Both are out in farm country, where they should be. The first one was great, but during covid, their wait list grew to 18 months. More people raising their own, or buying beef by the side. Since I only raise beef for myself, and a few friends and family, that did not work for me. So I switched to a larger meat packing facility farther away that only needed 2-3 weeks notice depending on time of year. They are still much smaller than what we appear to be talking about. There was a third one maybe a mile away from my place that was even smaller, but that closed down shortly after I moved here. or I would have used him. I am also familiar with a few others. All of them small, and employ local people.

I'm a big fan of buying and hiring local.

To answer your question, no. I was not familiar with that company or their hiring practices, but after googling, I am not a fan. I apologize if I was out of line. Any more questions?
Click to expand...
I don't even think I read what you originally said. I was just saying "everyone" as in anyone in general, people not associated with PAFlyfish, standing up for the plant as a means to create jobs. Not a big deal. I think you got what I was saying after you made the correction at the end.
 
Sylvaneous said:
The meat packing industry still earns the rapine and repugnant reputation that it acquired in the past. Energy, mining and meat packing all have very negative impacts where they ply their trade.
Click to expand...
Yet not having either would have a great impact on our lifestyle and economy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Harman's North Fork Cottages


Real Time Data From
the USGS Site

Share this page

Back
Top