Nicholas Meats coming for Big Fishing Creek’s cold spring water May 4rth Comments(written and in person needed).

[Mike]

Your cfs measure is irrelevant to the threat presented.

Hardly, if one is referencing stream flows or impacts upon same as part of the concern.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Hardly, if one is referencing stream flows or impacts upon same as part of the concern.

I'll ask them Easton boys if they agree 😂

 

[Mike]

Whatever the reference to Easton Boys means.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Whatever the reference to Easton Boys means.

If you don't you are in the dark.

Water withdrawals in krast aquifers, permitted at a low cfs or not, can cause dewatering by sinkholes.
Surely you have heard of this.

Though again, myopically focusing in on that one little tidbit is just fantastical.

This company in question has a good history of NOT following permits for withdrawals by exceeding them, doing so rather disingenuously by not being monitored on their wells no one knew they had and questionable other practices.

Drought years with these goons sucking the watershed will just be wonderful.


But 1 cfs 🤷 it's all good!👍

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Fishing Creek Threatened

From TCO Fishing Reports page: "Fishing Creek, a world-class trout stream in southern Clinton County, is at risk to the development and expansion plans of Nicholas Meat, LLC a slaughterhouse located just east of the Borough of Loganton. The Susquehanna River Basin Commission is currently seeking...

www.paflyfish.com

 

[troutbert]

It's just the wrong location for such an industry.

If you are going to build a large processing plant that uses large amounts of water, locate it where there is a large SUPPLY of water.

Loganton is way up in the drainage. The stream is quite small up there, and the watershed drainage area is small.

And it's limestone karst geology. In some places in that area the stream often goes completely dry, because the water flows from the surface down into limestone. In other areas the stream flows most of the time, but is partially sunk, and these sections go dry during droughts. In other places springs add flow, but then sinks or losing sections occur further downstream. The "plumbing" is very complicated there.

The bottom line is that water in the stream is in short supply in that section. Pulling more water out could really wreck it.

And there are native brook trout in that part of Fishing Creek, as well as brown trout.

 

[tomgamber]

 

[Flintlock]

It's just the wrong location for such an industry.

If you are going to build a large processing plant that uses large amounts of water, locate it where there is a large SUPPLY of water.

Yes….like over the mountain by the landfill….where the Susquehanna is. That disgusting debacle over in sugar valley is a complete eye sore….or stink bomb however you want to describe it. I could go on and on. I worked directly in the AG industry in that valley for a good period of time. It’s an absolute shame that place was allowed to be built there. Clinton county is poor…money talks. It’s a sad commentary on how Clinton county is run.

 

[Flintlock]

It's just the wrong location for such an industry.

If you are going to build a large processing plant that uses large amounts of water, locate it where there is a large SUPPLY of water.

Yes….like over the mountain by the landfill….where the Susquehanna is. That disgusting debacle over in sugar valley is a complete eye sore….or stink bomb however you want to describe it. I could go on and on. I worked directly in the AG industry in that valley for a good period of time. It’s an absolute shame that place was allowed to be built there. Clinton county is poor…money talks. It’s a sad commentary on how Clinton county is run.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

The facility is not going away, drove through there this week. Massive amounts of construction and industrial expansion going on. Hopefully their water treatment plant being constructed can be utilized for reuse to minimize withdrawal impacts.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

 

[sixfootfenwick]

The facility is not going away, drove through there this week. Massive amounts of construction and industrial expansion going on. Hopefully their water treatment plant being constructed can be utilized for reuse to minimize withdrawal impacts.

Lol that treatment plant we keep hearing about, maybe one day.....

They certainly aren't going away, but I do think their request for more withdrawals should be denied in totality.

 

[Fish Sticks]

yea the more water they pump and run over dead cow carcasses and apply on the land then the more of that goes into BFC. And the w/d velocities and amount could cause well failures and more dry stream. You already have local residents claiming in the link above to middle susky rover keeper that their wells have been ruined. This has to get denied and there needs to be enforcement because just a denial will result in these clowns just w/d over limit like they have before.

 

[krayfish2]

I enjoy a good Ribeye steak now and then so I can't argue against the company. Moving the facility is probably the answer but that ain't gonna happen.

 

[jifigz]

You folks are probably right that nothing good can and will come of this, after all, modern human civilization draws heavily on the lands and resources around us. Humans always have, at least we have safeguards in place today and at least nature is and can be resilient.

On a broader scale, I am no vegetarian/vegan so how do we continue to produce foods for the world when everyone has a "not in my backyard" stance. Agriculture is the single largest use of water there is and the demands are only going to continue to grow as the human population surges. Do you have any idea how much water a large dairy farm uses....because it is A LOT. How regulated are dairy farms and their well usage? Would we be up in arms if 3 large dairy farms were opening in the area each supporting a family? Probably not because it wouldn't be as advertised and the water usage would be similar. I am not sure how perceptible the amount of water they will be drawing for this operation will be to the actual flows of BFC. None of us are, we are speculating and siding with the side of caution to protect the resource we love.

Either way, we will see what happens in the long run. But yeah, everyone wants to utilize oil/gas, eat beef, chicken, drink milk, but no one ever wants the oil and gas wells/pipelines in their neighborhood. No one wants a slaughterhouse just down the road. What is the answer and how do we make it all work?

 

[sixfootfenwick]

You folks are probably right that nothing good can and will come of this, after all, modern human civilization draws heavily on the lands and resources around us. Humans always have, at least we have safeguards in place today and at least nature is and can be resilient.

On a broader scale, I am no vegetarian/vegan so how do we continue to produce foods for the world when everyone has a "not in my backyard" stance. Agriculture is the single largest use of water there is and the demands are only going to continue to grow as the human population surges. Do you have any idea how much water a large dairy farm uses....because it is A LOT. How regulated are dairy farms and their well usage? Would we be up in arms if 3 large dairy farms were opening in the area each supporting a family? Probably not because it wouldn't be as advertised and the water usage would be similar. I am not sure how perceptible the amount of water they will be drawing for this operation will be to the actual flows of BFC. None of us are, we are speculating and siding with the side of caution to protect the resource we love.

Either way, we will see what happens in the long run. But yeah, everyone wants to utilize oil/gas, eat beef, chicken, drink milk, but no one ever wants the oil and gas wells/pipelines in their neighborhood. No one wants a slaughterhouse just down the road. What is the answer and how do we make it all work?

These are all good points and great questions.
Of course I don't have answers to them but I would like to point out, holding companies accountable and only dealing with honest ones is, and should be, 1st and foremost.

Hide things so you can purposely break permits, that should be an automatic denial of future permits. Right? I mean doesn't that seem obvious?

If we cant get to that stage, why even have any?


I have no issue with responsible companies, following laws and regulations.
I take exception to those that don't, purposely.

If not following laws meant death to your business, and another company who follows the law would fill your shoes, we would give them incentive to be honest.

 

[Schaefer406]

You folks are probably right that nothing good can and will come of this, after all, modern human civilization draws heavily on the lands and resources around us. Humans always have, at least we have safeguards in place today and at least nature is and can be resilient.

On a broader scale, I am no vegetarian/vegan so how do we continue to produce foods for the world when everyone has a "not in my backyard" stance. Agriculture is the single largest use of water there is and the demands are only going to continue to grow as the human population surges. Do you have any idea how much water a large dairy farm uses....because it is A LOT. How regulated are dairy farms and their well usage? Would we be up in arms if 3 large dairy farms were opening in the area each supporting a family? Probably not because it wouldn't be as advertised and the water usage would be similar. I am not sure how perceptible the amount of water they will be drawing for this operation will be to the actual flows of BFC. None of us are, we are speculating and siding with the side of caution to protect the resource we love.

Either way, we will see what happens in the long run. But yeah, everyone wants to utilize oil/gas, eat beef, chicken, drink milk, but no one ever wants the oil and gas wells/pipelines in their neighborhood. No one wants a slaughterhouse just down the road. What is the answer and how do we make it all work?

In an ideal world, obviously none of us want this plant to be open and drawing water from one of the main water sources for one of central pa's "big 4" streams. Jfigz brings up a good point that nobody wants these plants in their area, but the reality is we are all (well, mostly all of us) consumers of products that these plants manufactures. I worked on a nursery and crop farm for 7 years growing up and the amount of water these places consume is astronomical, which is a necessary evil in most cases. I don't think Nicholas Meats chose an ideal place considering the groundwater is already low and parts of this creek already struggle in drought periods, but what is the true answer here?

 

[Schaefer406]

These are all good points and great questions.
Of course I don't have answers to them but I would like to point out, holding companies accountable and only dealing with honest ones is, and should be, 1st and foremost.

Hide things so you can purposely break permits, that should be an automatic denial of future permits. Right? I mean doesn't that seem obvious?

If we can get to that stage, why even have any?


I have no issue with responsible companies, following laws and regulations.
I take exception to those that don't, purposely.

I am on your side. I partly manage environmental permits for 4 plants in 3 separate states - There is no room for companies taking the shady route, especially if they were not permitted to conduct certain actions. The DEP is actually relatively easy to work with from a plant management POV, but with staffing shortages at the Department, companies who want to take advantage of their lack of on site inspections easily can which sucks

 

[Mike]

You folks are probably right that nothing good can and will come of this, after all, modern human civilization draws heavily on the lands and resources around us. Humans always have, at least we have safeguards in place today and at least nature is and can be resilient.

On a broader scale, I am no vegetarian/vegan so how do we continue to produce foods for the world when everyone has a "not in my backyard" stance. Agriculture is the single largest use of water there is and the demands are only going to continue to grow as the human population surges. Do you have any idea how much water a large dairy farm uses....because it is A LOT. How regulated are dairy farms and their well usage? Would we be up in arms if 3 large dairy farms were opening in the area each supporting a family? Probably not because it wouldn't be as advertised and the water usage would be similar. I am not sure how perceptible the amount of water they will be drawing for this operation will be to the actual flows of BFC. None of us are, we are speculating and siding with the side of caution to protect the resource we love.

Either way, we will see what happens in the long run. But yeah, everyone wants to utilize oil/gas, eat beef, chicken, drink milk, but no one ever wants the oil and gas wells/pipelines in their neighborhood. No one wants a slaughterhouse just down the road. What is the answer and how do we make it all work?

Some good points here!

 

[Fly-Swatter]

That nice ground up slurry of cow blood, guts with fecal matter inside and other odds and ends that gets liquified and dumped dumped or sprayed anywhere they think people won’t notice. Heres a photo from a local resident of it running down the street. View attachment 1641229737

That nice ground up slurry of cow blood, guts with fecal matter inside and other odds and ends that gets liquified and dumped dumped or sprayed anywhere they think people won’t notice. Heres a photo from a local resident of it running down the street. View attachment 1641229737

I'm afraid, without constant oversight, this is what will happen. It's not unique to this company. There are too many examples to sight. Just look at the superfund sites in PA. If money or convenience is the reward and there are insufficient deterrents, this stuff will happen. You just can't count on the altruism of businesses.